Sequels that are better than the original
Films, books, games, music.
Erm... Plays? Pr0n? Recipes?
As with most of my threads, I'll lose interest halfway through, so... Sorry about that.
Often, a film or song will be a sleeper hit or cheap breakthrough indie hit, or whatever.
And it might do very well.
Then the studio gets involved for the sequel. Out come the extra writers, the extra money, and the focus groups... And they generate a piece of crap.
Ace Ventura: Pet Detective. (Yes, I'm starting with the masterpieces).
You might hate Jim Carry. You might love him. He might not even be on your radar. But that is a great film with some great subtle jokes amongst all the crappy slapstick. Also, he had great hair.
Then comes the sequel. And it stank. "We need a bigger story! A bigger budget! A new foreign location! And someone get me a really expensive hair-stylist!!!!"
So they took everything that was good, threw it away, gave him a crappy really expensive version of his hair that was probably a bad wig, and the film stunk.
Red Dwarf. The original scutters cost about £200 to build each. (The little claw-headed robots). Then when the show came back, they suddenly cost £20,000 each because now the show had a budget.
Anyway, I'm here to discuss the GOOD follow-ups, not that rubbish.
Clerks II
I really like the first Clerks film. Bits of it are terrible.
But the sequel is pretty much one of the best films ever made.
Most of Kevin Smith's films are average to poor. Clerks II is just almost a masterpiece (apart from 1 scene). Also Rosario Dawson is perfect in that film.
Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade
I love Raiders, I hate Temple 'O Doom.
Last Crusade is the perfect end to the franchise (not even going there). Great performances all round, Mr Bronson as Hitler (have to be a UK person of a certain age to get that), a wonderful performance from Sean Connery, and a terrible puppet strapped to a tank.
Aliens
I LOVE Alien. But, it can be a hard watch. The sequel is 'better', as it can be watched under more circumstances than the original. This is probably a cheat entry, because they are different genres, and both excellent in different ways.
American Pie 2
The first film was tolerable, no wish to see it again. But the sequel is so much better. They really found their stride, good feelgood movie. They should have left it there. The 3rd is terrible, I haven't seen the 69 other films in the franchise.
Toy Story 2
I like the first film. But the 2nd is much better. They still had a tight film, lots of action, perhaps a fraction too long. Personally I think Kelsey Grammar was an odd choice for the Prospector. I get what they were trying to do, but he doesn't quite fit (Alan Rickman in Galaxy Quest pulled it off better as the Shakespearean actor trapped in the role.)
Toy Story 3 felt forced and too long. Not as good as 2.
Star Trek 2: Wrath of Khan
Well, duh...
Terminator 2
I think this one is a bit like the Alien/Aliens entry... They are almost different genres, so can't quite be compared. There is no Terminator 3, and I've not seen Genysis (Why would I? the trailer gave it all away).
Half Life 2
I played Half Life again recently... Wish I'd left those happy memories buried in their rose-tinted storage compartment.
Sequels that are better than the original
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Sequels that are better than the original
"I've got a bad feeling about this!" Harrison Ford, 5 times a year, trying to land his plane.
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BigBANGtheory
- Posts: 3168
- Joined: Sun, 23. Oct 05, 12:13
Games:
Portal 2
Call of Duty : Modern Warfare
Homeworld 2
Film:
Hellraiser 2
From Russia with Love
Empire Strikes Back
No Retreat No Surrender 2
IT (unreleased but it won't be hard to beat the original)
TV:
Battlestar Galactica
Westworld
Songs:
Jelous Guy (Roxy Music)
No More I Love Yous (Lennox)
Scream and Shout (WillIam)
Stayin Alive (ntrance)
Empire State of Mind (Jayz)
Portal 2
Call of Duty : Modern Warfare
Homeworld 2
Film:
Hellraiser 2
From Russia with Love
Empire Strikes Back
No Retreat No Surrender 2
IT (unreleased but it won't be hard to beat the original)
TV:
Battlestar Galactica
Westworld
Songs:
Jelous Guy (Roxy Music)
No More I Love Yous (Lennox)
Scream and Shout (WillIam)
Stayin Alive (ntrance)
Empire State of Mind (Jayz)
Mass Effect 2. The main storyline is garbage, but the actual gameplay and all the companion side missions are far better than the first game.
Half-Life 2. Yes, Valve was a little too eager to show off every feature of their new Source engine, but the story was still solid and people nowadays probably forget just how incredible the game looked for 2004.
Far Cry 3. Nowadays we're sick of Ubisoft radio tower gameplay, but this was the first game in which it appeared (AFAIK) and it was really fun back then. Plus, of course, we had one of the best villains seen in a video game in the shape of Vaas...just a pity they anticlimactically killed him halfway through and replaced him with a maths teacher.
Just Cause 2. I tried playing the original Just Cause after I finished JC2, and found it to be clunky beyond belief, plus you couldn't use the grappling hook anywhere you liked. That relatively simple change of making it so you could hookshot around the place made the game more fun than anything has any right to be. While the wingsuit in JC3 is better still, I don't think the plot or the world are anything like as good in that game.
Half-Life 2. Yes, Valve was a little too eager to show off every feature of their new Source engine, but the story was still solid and people nowadays probably forget just how incredible the game looked for 2004.
Far Cry 3. Nowadays we're sick of Ubisoft radio tower gameplay, but this was the first game in which it appeared (AFAIK) and it was really fun back then. Plus, of course, we had one of the best villains seen in a video game in the shape of Vaas...just a pity they anticlimactically killed him halfway through and replaced him with a maths teacher.
Just Cause 2. I tried playing the original Just Cause after I finished JC2, and found it to be clunky beyond belief, plus you couldn't use the grappling hook anywhere you liked. That relatively simple change of making it so you could hookshot around the place made the game more fun than anything has any right to be. While the wingsuit in JC3 is better still, I don't think the plot or the world are anything like as good in that game.
Black Mesa makes Half Life Playable again. The original Half Life doesn't work so well.
I wish someone would do the same for Doom/Doom 2, but I'm not sure how it could be done now, since those need that 2.5D world to work. I know someone had a go at recreating original Doom in a 3D engine, but it wasn't a 3D game....
I tend not to think of Khan as a sequel, I prefer to just pretend the Motion Picture never happened....
Clerks 2 was better than Clerks, finally someone who agrees with me! And not just because it was in colour either, it was just more interesting. I find it to have that all important rewatchability factor. You can just tell the actors were having fun making it.
Most of my 'the sequal was better then the first one' for games were long ago, when the games companies concerned were still fairly small. More recently it has tended to be 'ooh, that made money, lets rush out something fast to capitalise on it, doesn't matter how good it is'.
I wish someone would do the same for Doom/Doom 2, but I'm not sure how it could be done now, since those need that 2.5D world to work. I know someone had a go at recreating original Doom in a 3D engine, but it wasn't a 3D game....
I tend not to think of Khan as a sequel, I prefer to just pretend the Motion Picture never happened....
Clerks 2 was better than Clerks, finally someone who agrees with me! And not just because it was in colour either, it was just more interesting. I find it to have that all important rewatchability factor. You can just tell the actors were having fun making it.
Most of my 'the sequal was better then the first one' for games were long ago, when the games companies concerned were still fairly small. More recently it has tended to be 'ooh, that made money, lets rush out something fast to capitalise on it, doesn't matter how good it is'.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli
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matthewfarmery
- Posts: 3690
- Joined: Fri, 9. Apr 04, 17:49
Then again, Black mesa isn't a sequel, so that doesn't really count.
as for Alien / Alien 2, one is an action film, the other is a survival horror, so different styles of film.
But I would agree that Terminator 2 is better then the first one. also,
The Good, the Bad and the ugly, which is really good, and better then the first two. "Fist full of dollars" and "For a few dollars more"
the godfather part 2
was a really good film.
Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior
Now that was a classic.
as for Alien / Alien 2, one is an action film, the other is a survival horror, so different styles of film.
But I would agree that Terminator 2 is better then the first one. also,
The Good, the Bad and the ugly, which is really good, and better then the first two. "Fist full of dollars" and "For a few dollars more"
the godfather part 2
was a really good film.
Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior
Now that was a classic.
=
Oddly enough my wife and I are just watching those now, half way through 'for a few Dollars more' now, with 'The Good The Bad and The Ugly' queued to follow.matthewfarmery wrote: The Good, the Bad and the ugly, which is really good, and better then the first two. "Fist full of dollars" and "For a few dollars more"
She just asked for the Clint Eastwood ones with the Poncho, and we sorted our weeks evening viewing right there
They may be old, but they have aged well.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli
If you liked the man with no name western trilogy Death Rides a Horse might be of some interest.
I think Alien 2+4 was better than 1. 3 wasn't in my opinion.
Mad Max series.
Most of the Star Trek movies.
Transformers movies.
Rescuers movies.
Pirates of the Caribbean part 3 might be better than 1.
Risen game series.
Fallout series.
X series with x3tc/ap probably being the pinnacle.
Far Cry 1 versus 2.
Doom.
Hitman game series.
Starpoint Gemini game series.
Two Worlds series might be debatable. 1 versus 2.
The Witcher game series.
Wolfenstein game series.
The newer Sherlock Holmes movie series with Robert Downey Jr.. I liked 2 much better than 1.
Blade 1 versus Blade 2.
Army of Darkness versus the Evil Dead 1 +2.
Back to the Future 3 versus 1 might be debatable.
I think Alien 2+4 was better than 1. 3 wasn't in my opinion.
Mad Max series.
Most of the Star Trek movies.
Transformers movies.
Rescuers movies.
Pirates of the Caribbean part 3 might be better than 1.
Risen game series.
Fallout series.
X series with x3tc/ap probably being the pinnacle.
Far Cry 1 versus 2.
Doom.
Hitman game series.
Starpoint Gemini game series.
Two Worlds series might be debatable. 1 versus 2.
The Witcher game series.
Wolfenstein game series.
The newer Sherlock Holmes movie series with Robert Downey Jr.. I liked 2 much better than 1.
Blade 1 versus Blade 2.
Army of Darkness versus the Evil Dead 1 +2.
Back to the Future 3 versus 1 might be debatable.
Actually I started looking at the other Van Cleef movies after discovering this previously unknown side of my wifes movie tastes, there are several of his notable ones on the various movie services we have access to.
I'll start lining them up. I've never actually watched any of his work before, but I've been reading about him over the last day.
I keep subjecting her to SF, I guess it's time watch some westerns. Mind you I already have an extensive collection of John Wayne and Clint Eastwood that I've gathered over the years from various sources but don't tend to watch (except maybe Paint your Wagon at Christmas some years). Clint because I rather like his wotk John Wayne mostly just because I guess...
Pirates of the Caribbean 3? Really?
I struugled to watch that, and I seem to recall I'd been drinking, which usually makes such films easier for me to bear. But each to their own I suppose. I mean it did ok, lots of people had to like it, they keep making them. They're just not my thing.
But I struggled to watch Stallone wreck Judge Dredd too, and I was 'supposed' to like that, wasn't I.
TILL HE TOOK THE HELMET OFF!!!!!!!
But I keep digressing.
There is a book sequal, or sequels that bug me by Arthur C Clark.
Rendezvous with Rama was a great book, I loved everything about it.
It had everything I loved about his early work and included his new focus on 'hard' SF.
But then he ruined it with sequel after sequel, each one diluting the story until it ended up a pale shadow of the wonder that the first invoked in my imagination.
Everything was explained, poorly. It was all so dull. There was nothing left to fuel the flights of imagination sparked by that first book.
I'll start lining them up. I've never actually watched any of his work before, but I've been reading about him over the last day.
I keep subjecting her to SF, I guess it's time watch some westerns. Mind you I already have an extensive collection of John Wayne and Clint Eastwood that I've gathered over the years from various sources but don't tend to watch (except maybe Paint your Wagon at Christmas some years). Clint because I rather like his wotk John Wayne mostly just because I guess...
Pirates of the Caribbean 3? Really?
I struugled to watch that, and I seem to recall I'd been drinking, which usually makes such films easier for me to bear. But each to their own I suppose. I mean it did ok, lots of people had to like it, they keep making them. They're just not my thing.
But I struggled to watch Stallone wreck Judge Dredd too, and I was 'supposed' to like that, wasn't I.
TILL HE TOOK THE HELMET OFF!!!!!!!
But I keep digressing.
There is a book sequal, or sequels that bug me by Arthur C Clark.
Rendezvous with Rama was a great book, I loved everything about it.
It had everything I loved about his early work and included his new focus on 'hard' SF.
But then he ruined it with sequel after sequel, each one diluting the story until it ended up a pale shadow of the wonder that the first invoked in my imagination.
Everything was explained, poorly. It was all so dull. There was nothing left to fuel the flights of imagination sparked by that first book.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli
Hoping the sequel to Blade Runner ... Blade Runner 2049,,, is one of those rare films that is as good as the original .. Half Life 2 was an improvement, Aliens was another, (although does it count being as good as when the initial shock/horror/suspense of the first one becomes settled in the mind)) ..... and now the memory is playing tricks because I can think of no others unless of course there are no others.... In the end the ugly easy "Cash Cow" grows bigger and eventually saggier teats to suckle on.
Edit .... After many readings I found Dune Messiah a deeper more enjoyable read than Dune....
Edit .... After many readings I found Dune Messiah a deeper more enjoyable read than Dune....
I'm struggling to find many other sequals that are good in the SF world other than those mentioned. Unless this was expended to remakes.
In which case:
The Time Machine (2002)
I know the first one is supposed to be a 'classic', but watch it, it isn't actually very good, even for its time.
Dredd (2012)
The Original Stallone one was so bad, oh god the pain of memory....
Such a shame it bombed at the box office, it really is a superb movie, just probably a bit too overwhelmed by all these mega budget superhero movies we've got being thrown at us.
In which case:
The Time Machine (2002)
I know the first one is supposed to be a 'classic', but watch it, it isn't actually very good, even for its time.
Dredd (2012)
The Original Stallone one was so bad, oh god the pain of memory....
Such a shame it bombed at the box office, it really is a superb movie, just probably a bit too overwhelmed by all these mega budget superhero movies we've got being thrown at us.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli
You see that's a hard one for me, because I saw Appleseed Alpha first and kind of prefer it for that reason. But I need to watch all three of the movies in sequence.burger1 wrote: Appleseed Alpha vs Appleseed Ex Machina.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli
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BigBANGtheory
- Posts: 3168
- Joined: Sun, 23. Oct 05, 12:13
Well if we consider the term sequel to be the one following the original then there are not many better sequels to list tbh. But if we consider anything that after the original, then there are a few more (excluding those already mentioned)
Film:
Mad Max Fury Road
Bourne
Lord of the Rings Two Towers
Star Trek Beyond
Mission Impossible 5
(Here I really had to struggle and went on my IMDB list of rating and except for Star Wars there is no sequel in the Top 50)
Games:
Riven: The sequel to Myst
Deus Ex HR (yes I know people really like the first one, dont care
)
Hitman Blood Money
Rome Total War
Medal of Honour Pacific Assault
StarCraft 2
Comand & Conquer Tiberian Sun
Need For Speed Porsche Unleashed
GTR2
MFG
Ketraar
Film:
Mad Max Fury Road
Bourne
Lord of the Rings Two Towers
Star Trek Beyond
Mission Impossible 5
(Here I really had to struggle and went on my IMDB list of rating and except for Star Wars there is no sequel in the Top 50)
Games:
Riven: The sequel to Myst
Deus Ex HR (yes I know people really like the first one, dont care
)Hitman Blood Money
Rome Total War
Medal of Honour Pacific Assault
StarCraft 2
Comand & Conquer Tiberian Sun
Need For Speed Porsche Unleashed
GTR2
MFG
Ketraar
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brucewarren
- Posts: 9243
- Joined: Wed, 26. Mar 08, 14:15
Superman 2
Lord of the Rings (Sequel to The Hobbit)
I was going to suggest "The Empire Strike Back" on account of it being way better than "A New Hope", but I'm not sure if it's really a sequel as opposed to being part two of a three film story.
Need a rule clarification here. Does a sequel have to be a self contained story in it's own right, or are we allowed to nominate episodes in a series?
Lord of the Rings (Sequel to The Hobbit)
I was going to suggest "The Empire Strike Back" on account of it being way better than "A New Hope", but I'm not sure if it's really a sequel as opposed to being part two of a three film story.
Need a rule clarification here. Does a sequel have to be a self contained story in it's own right, or are we allowed to nominate episodes in a series?
Yes!burger1 wrote:
Back to the Future 3 versus 1 might be debatable.
This was actually what I was thinking of when I started the thread, and then forget to include it.
I love the 3rd one! I love the first 1 too.
But there is just something about the 3rd one and the 'modern' western feel, and I enjoyed the fact that it was mostly a recreation of the first film. Also, Doc Brown as a cowboy...
Tom Wilson was always a threatening bully in the first BTTF. In BTTF, although he was a pantomime over the top bad guy, I really liked him.
"I've got a bad feeling about this!" Harrison Ford, 5 times a year, trying to land his plane.