(X3AP) Truelight Seeker

[J.I.Gorkij]

Hi,

it's possible to get one in vanilla?

[hisazul]

No.

If you want it, cheat package and spawn it. It is still in the files and fully functional but not available in any form in vanilla.

[Greenhorn]

it wouldve been great for a ship to start with, on goner witness start plot.but i cant find it anywhere.nor can you increase your rank with the goners either. egosft doesnt have any love for the goners.

[jlehtone]

nor can you increase your rank with the goners either.

Hmm. X3AP. Nostalgic Argon does not start with top Goner rank, yet I'm Protector of the Goners now. Via generic missions given by Goners at the Goner SPP in Harmony of Perp. There is a Pirate Base too (lucky for me and them) that occasionally hosts a Goner.

We seem to have opposite observations about what is possible.

[Black_hole_suN]

nor can you increase your rank with the goners either.

Hmm. X3AP. Nostalgic Argon does not start with top Goner rank, yet I'm Protector of the Goners now. Via generic missions given by Goners at the Goner SPP in Harmony of Perp. There is a Pirate Base too (lucky for me and them) that occasionally hosts a Goner.

We seem to have opposite observations about what is possible.

also, IIRC, The station that Goners asked you to build in Teladi space is still present on AP and still under their control. since that station is plot relevant it is invulnerable. you can take Goner missions from there.

it wouldve been great for a ship to start with

i doubt that. that ship takes forever to recharge its shields.

[Sovereign01]

nor can you increase your rank with the goners either.

Hmm. X3AP. Nostalgic Argon does not start with top Goner rank, yet I'm Protector of the Goners now. Via generic missions given by Goners at the Goner SPP in Harmony of Perp. There is a Pirate Base too (lucky for me and them) that occasionally hosts a Goner.

We seem to have opposite observations about what is possible.

also, IIRC, The station that Goners asked you to build in Teladi space is still present on AP and still under their control. since that station is plot relevant it is invulnerable. you can take Goner missions from there.

it wouldve been great for a ship to start with

i doubt that. that ship takes forever to recharge its shields.

Agreed- assuming the stats haven't been changed from TC most M6s have a shield recharge rate at least ten times that of the TLS.

[hisazul]

TLS was never meant to be a starter ship. It's shield recharge is the weakness that offsets the ability to mount gauss cannons on m6. Tho admittedly TLS laser recharge, while on par with other m6, can't really fuel continuous use of most of the non-standard m6 weapons. It's a long range siege ship... once small numerous enemies get close... you are ******.

Early game is nothing but small enemies.

[RAVEN.myst]

nor can you increase your rank with the goners either.

How so? This is a misconception I see inexplicably popping up periodically, and yet in every game I play I improve my Goner reputation without even doing any missions for them, merely by trading with them. I buy their ECs whenever I am in the 'hood in those playthroughs when they have an SPP (there's usually one in Elysium, and sometimes another in Harmony), and sometimes I even train CLS pilots in Elysium (though it's quite dangerous, as it's a warzone sector - but the compactness of the sector and proximity of its stations, combined with the semi-permanent Argon blockades at the gates, mean that my OOS TM trainee CLS2 can zip between stations unharmed *most* of the time...)

Granted, this method of Goner-rep-grinding slows quickly, and is never fast to begin with, but it DOES happen, over time...

[Nanook]

nor can you increase your rank with the goners either.

How so? This is a misconception I see inexplicably popping up periodically, and yet in every game I play I improve my Goner reputation without even doing any missions for them, merely by trading with them.....

As long as you have docking rights. If, however, your rep drops too low, there's no way to raise it back up. The Goners don't have traders of their own to visit your stations, and they don't recognize anyone as 'enemy' so you can't raise your rep that way. So there is something to that "misconception", even if it's not completely true.

[RAVEN.myst]

nor can you increase your rank with the goners either.

How so? This is a misconception I see inexplicably popping up periodically, and yet in every game I play I improve my Goner reputation without even doing any missions for them, merely by trading with them.....

As long as you have docking rights. If, however, your rep drops too low, there's no way to raise it back up. The Goners don't have traders of their own to visit your stations, and they don't recognize anyone as 'enemy' so you can't raise your rep that way. So there is something to that "misconception", even if it's not completely true.

Ah, good point! As then missions can also no longer be taken, and as far as I know, while there are plenty of Goner ships roaming around, I've never seen one offer a mission - not even (or perhaps "especially not") the spinning woo-woo ones... My experience in this regard is obviously coloured by the fact that I don't antagonize the Goners (antaGonerize? ) and have never (that I can remember, at least) become persona non grata with them... Hmmm, I'm not sure this needs changing, though (as some people occasionally urge) - yes. it's irrevocable, but if nothing ever is, then there is little in the way of "consequences". Having one faction that is unforgiving past a certain (serious) point may not be a bad thing... Maybe...

What is definite, however, is that I ought to drink this coffee, already!

[Sinxar]

Hmmm, I'm not sure this needs changing, though (as some people occasionally urge) - yes. it's irrevocable, but if nothing ever is, then there is little in the way of "consequences". Having one faction that is unforgiving past a certain (serious) point may not be a bad thing... Maybe...

I keep beating this horse hoping it will come back to life. The issue is in some cases you start with goner rep too low, bankrupt assassin and savage split for example cannot complete that plot simply because your starting rep is too low by no fault of your own. I have an old savegame I would really love to finish one day... My proposed solution was to link it to Argon rep. Doesn't even have to be 1:1. Could be 2:1 so if you are max rep with Argon you would be neutral with Goner. At least that way it gives everyone a chance at finishing the game regardless of which start they choose or because some suicidal Goner decided to fly into your lasers.

[RAVEN.myst]

Hmmm, I'm not sure this needs changing, though (as some people occasionally urge) - yes. it's irrevocable, but if nothing ever is, then there is little in the way of "consequences". Having one faction that is unforgiving past a certain (serious) point may not be a bad thing... Maybe...

I keep beating this horse hoping it will come back to life. The issue is in some cases you start with goner rep too low, bankrupt assassin and savage split for example cannot complete that plot simply because your starting rep is too low by no fault of your own. I have an old savegame I would really love to finish one day... My proposed solution was to link it to Argon rep. Doesn't even have to be 1:1. Could be 2:1 so if you are max rep with Argon you would be neutral with Goner. At least that way it gives everyone a chance at finishing the game regardless of which start they choose or because some suicidal Goner decided to fly into your lasers.

Odd - one of my most extensive and "most complete" playthroughs was with Bankrupt Assassin, and in it I completed absolutely everything (including my first total completion of the X3TC Hub Plot), so I didn't have the issue. I can only surmise that actions post-start in your case have caused your Goner rep to deteriorate further, and perhaps it starts very borderline, so it takes very little to tip the scales (even just a single suicidal he's-a-Goner.) Since I don't pick on Goners (feels wrong to victimize a bunch of pacifists, even totally abstract fictiotious digital ones, heheheh), if the reputation starts barely high enough, that's already enough for me. However, I can't speak for Savage Split, it's the gamestart I have played the fewest times, and quite possibly never to completion.

On the one hand, I'm *inclined* to agree that a game mechanic locking out possibilities in a sandbox game is not desirable - and yet on the other hand, from a more role-play-based perspective, having everything always open to everyone doesn't really make sense. *shrug*

However, "suicidal Goners" and the like ARE a problem, especially for someone playing DiD or strictly not reloading (I generally don't rewind time for better outcomes, but idiotic ships smearing themselves on my windscreen sometimes get me to make an exception.) Personally, I wouldn't want that Goner-Argon link - too easy, too simplistic. However, (to my view) a more interesting solution might be to insert a short but difficult plot that can be tracked down and completed, and which is made (obscurely) available from time to time - so it could take a pretty long time to find it. Also, I would have it incur some serious consequences - say, for instance, a serious reputation loss with some other faction that the player would have to "betray" in order to win the Goners' favour - something like that. This is the roleplayer/storyteller in me speaking, here... I suspect some (perhaps many) wouldn't like this solution...

[Snafu_X3]

a more interesting solution might be to insert a short but difficult plot that can be tracked down and completed, and which is made (obscurely) available from time to time - so it could take a pretty long time to find it. Also, I would have it incur some serious consequences - say, for instance, a serious reputation loss with some other faction that the player would have to "betray" in order to win the Goners' favour - something like that. This is the roleplayer/storyteller in me speaking, here... I suspect some (perhaps many) wouldn't like this solution...

There's a part of the TC Campaign that has supposed 'Goners' going up against Pirates; maybe that could be used as a plot hook?

Alternatively, possibly some altercations in appropriate US's (South in AP; maybe N or E in TC, or even far SW)? My imagining is that <Goners> are trying to set up outposts where they'll be mostly left alone, but accessible.. so they'd choose sites (systems) appropriate to that task, with some local resources available but not enough to draw the attn of major powers (Xenon included.. BTW are they neutral to Xenon/Khaak too?.. can't remember)

[jlehtone]

X3TC/AP are slightly better than the X2/X3R. There is theoretical chance to get a mission even when you cannot dock. In X2/X3R you had to dock before you could even access the BBS; a very clear no dock --> no missions.