London incidents with fatalities (being treated as potential terrorist attack)

Post by **Santi** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 01:42

Three incidents in London, reports of a van attack, stabbings and gunshots. Police confirmed more than one fatality. The incidents have occurred in London Bridge, Borough Market and the latest at Vauxall.

Live update feed by the BBC

RegisterMe · Post by **RegisterMe** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 01:48

I live nearby. If you or yours are caught up in this and need a place to stay PM me.

EDIT: I've been looking at the coverage of this since the first incident started and it seems (at the moment) to be a) contained, b) limited and c) things are settling down.

I hope I'm right........

Post by **Santi** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 02:08

Very kind of you RegisterMe, I live further South so personally I am ok. Thanks for the offer it is very nice of you to do so.

Seems Vauxall was a different incident and not related.

notaterran · Post by **notaterran** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 06:55

The suspects were wearing what looked like explosive vests but these were later established to be hoaxes.

Link

It seems that it was done with the intention and planning to terrorize as much as possible. No random violence here.

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 07:47

According to the BBC news this morning, 6 bystanders confirmed dead, the 3 attackers all shot dead by armed police, and 48 injured. There are no words to descrobe my thoughts right now.

philip_hughes · Post by **philip_hughes** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 07:48

Sorted with typical British aplomb. World media goes nuts, poms go "need a room?"

muppetts · Post by **muppetts** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 08:26

6 dead, just, i mean what's the bloody point. I love Borough Market, Saturday night with a pint and a pie, enough probs to sort in life without some tosser who has given up screwing around and killing.

Cars the new weapon, who needs a gun, steal a car and you are ready to go.

philip_hughes · Post by **philip_hughes** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 09:10

I know it's tragic but the good news is we are starting to get more stories over here about common brits banding together and helping each other out rather than focusing on the guys who desperately want the headlines. You have an oppertunity here to blunt these attacks, simply by being decent people.

muppetts · Post by **muppetts** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 09:14

Manchester benefit concert today is a good example, we will stand together, man England really getting it in the last 6 months, this is attack number 3 I think, the other bridge attack and the bomb.

notaterran · Post by **notaterran** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 10:24

pjknibbs wrote:According to the BBC news this morning, 6 bystanders confirmed dead, the 3 attackers all shot dead by armed police, and 48 injured. There are no words to descrobe my thoughts right now.

Macron told the French that they have to accept this as part of their daily life. I'm curious, is anyone telling that to the British?

Bishop149 · Post by **Bishop149** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 11:15

It seems the bastards in this world are finally realising that bombs are a damn inefficient way to kill people.
Recently they seem to have decided all you need is vehicle (freely available to all / easily stolen) a crowded area and the will to kill / die.

There isn't much to be done. All that can be is to try and catch these people before they do such things and I'm sure the security services are doing their best (and likely succeeding 95% of the time).
I'd suggest that we:
- Fund and support those services as best we can to continue their work.
- Refuse to allow a small number of lunatics to sow divisions among decent people.
- Support the injured and bereaved, do so without fanfare.

And perhaps most importantly

- Don't give the bastards the attention they desire. Don't feel afraid as they would wish you to. As far as is possible. . . just ignore the gits.
If you must pay them attention be it in the form of complete and utter disdain.

Memnoch · Post by **Memnoch** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 11:54

notaterran wrote:
pjknibbs wrote:According to the BBC news this morning, 6 bystanders confirmed dead, the 3 attackers all shot dead by armed police, and 48 injured. There are no words to descrobe my thoughts right now.
Macron told the French that they have to accept this as part of their daily life. I'm curious, is anyone telling that to the British?

We shouldn't have to. I find it very difficult to believe that the people in their respective communities don't know that some of their number have been radicalised. They need to do more to root out these lunatics.

I reasonably expect, when the reports start to come through, that the three killed will be known to the authorities. Given that they had fake bomb vests on, I wonder if this particular "cell" did not have access to the same support network that the guy in Manchester had.

Chips · Post by **Chips** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 12:15

Tragic, as always.

notaterran wrote:Macron told the French that they have to accept this as part of their daily life. I'm curious, is anyone telling that to the British?

For those born in the UK, up until about 20 years ago terrorism was a part of daily life for decades due to the IRA. It's slipped people's mind now.

However, with 6lbs of Semtex being found in Ireland, evidently some groups do not believe it should be that way

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40144921

Fund and support those services as best we can to continue their work.

What do people expect them to do? Allegedly they're listening and reading absolutely everything. Low tech means require no training, no specialist equipment, searches etc. You can walk out your house tomorrow, get in a car and kill people. There's not a huge amount for them to go on if people do that regardless of how much money they have.

Bishop149 · Post by **Bishop149** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 12:19

Memnoch wrote:We shouldn't have to. I find it very difficult to believe that the people in their respective communities don't know that some of their number have been radicalised. They need to do more to root out these lunatics.

I reasonably expect, when the reports start to come through, that the three killed will be known to the authorities. Given that they had fake bomb vests on, I wonder if this particular "cell" did not have access to the same support network that the guy in Manchester had.

Worth pointing out that in the case of the Manchester bomber at least he WAS reported by his community, on no less than 5 separate occasions IIRC. I'd hazard a guess that in a lot, perhaps most of these cases this is exactly the reason WHY these people are known to the authorities.

The authorities have a difficult job, they can't just go around locking people up for holding an abhorrent viewpoint, or for researching such a viewpoint. An actual crime must be committed before they can act unless we want to live in a totalitarian police state. The problem I feel in many of these cases us that the interval between holding an extreme view, through planning to execution of the act of terrorism is very short, giving the authorities a VERY limited window in which to gain intelligence and act. (perhaps not Manchester though, given the complex nature of the attack).

@Chips Yeah I never said it was easy. I doubt many attacks proceed as you describe (in such a case you're quite right, zero that could be done) however, most I suspect have SOME window of opportunity to act, slim as it might be.

Chips · Post by **Chips** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 12:24

I should add, I'm not dismissing their efforts and/or the value of their work. That's undoubted, and even John McDonnell has gone from one extreme (disband) to the other (should have all the funding they need).

However, I think we need to be realistic that they cannot save us from all and sundry - and therefore whilst living as normal, be vigilant and aware of how to react in certain circumstances.

Rive · Post by **Rive** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 12:44

Chips wrote:
Fund and support those services as best we can to continue their work.
What do people expect them to do? Allegedly they're listening and reading absolutely everything.

AFAIK almost all cases the terrorist(s) were on the map already when he(they) finally gone nuts.

It is just that the actual legal system is made according to the terms and practices of the 'western' society and cannot handle that part of the islam which mixing politics, religion and violence.

Without applicable legal background no services can act.

muppetts · Post by **muppetts** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 12:50

notaterran wrote:
pjknibbs wrote:According to the BBC news this morning, 6 bystanders confirmed dead, the 3 attackers all shot dead by armed police, and 48 injured. There are no words to descrobe my thoughts right now.
Macron told the French that they have to accept this as part of their daily life. I'm curious, is anyone telling that to the British?

We've been there and done that with the IRA, long time ago..

muppetts · Post by **muppetts** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 12:53

Memnoch wrote:
notaterran wrote:
pjknibbs wrote:According to the BBC news this morning, 6 bystanders confirmed dead, the 3 attackers all shot dead by armed police, and 48 injured. There are no words to descrobe my thoughts right now.
Macron told the French that they have to accept this as part of their daily life. I'm curious, is anyone telling that to the British?
We shouldn't have to. I find it very difficult to believe that the people in their respective communities don't know that some of their number have been radicalised. They need to do more to root out these lunatics.

I reasonably expect, when the reports start to come through, that the three killed will be known to the authorities. Given that they had fake bomb vests on, I wonder if this particular "cell" did not have access to the same support network that the guy in Manchester had.

What communities, what is this magic 'community' all these people have membership too whenever these things happen. These people are mostly drug addicts, long time criminals etc. They are not part of any community!

Usenko · Post by **Usenko** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 14:35

muppetts wrote:
What communities, what is this magic 'community' all these people have membership too whenever these things happen. These people are mostly drug addicts, long time criminals etc. They are not part of any community!

Some are, but even then, you're hardly likely to advertise to people who don't already agree with you that you're going to do something illegal. The cops might stop you . . .

eladan · Post by **eladan** » Sun, 4. Jun 17, 15:03

Rive wrote:
Chips wrote:
Fund and support those services as best we can to continue their work.
What do people expect them to do? Allegedly they're listening and reading absolutely everything.
AFAIK almost all cases the terrorist(s) were on the map already when he(they) finally gone nuts.

It is just that the actual legal system is made according to the terms and practices of the 'western' society and cannot handle that part of the islam which mixing politics, religion and violence.

Without applicable legal background no services can act.

Unless we want to start prosecuting thought crimes, which would, as Bishop rightly said, put us well on the road to becoming a totalitarian nightmare, there's not a great deal that can be done. Whether they are 'on the radar' or not.

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London incidents with fatalities (being treated as potential terrorist attack)

London incidents with fatalities (being treated as potential terrorist attack)