Economy in 4.1 / HoL

General discussions about X Rebirth.

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bbn
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Post by bbn » Wed, 7. Jun 17, 01:02

Wow! So many good ideas! Thanks guys!

My Energy Array is alive and kicking ;). Strangly it brings some constant income. Assigned traders really don't have anything to do as npcs grab all e-cells it manages to produce at price set to 5. I didn't really expect that. The array is set in empty space near gemstone manufacture. I noticed that sometimes shipyard there rind out of e-cells, but I didn't forsee such a demand. :)

The only thing right now that annoys me is constant stream of messages about updates to my account (as I have around 15 automated traders set up with YAT). Anybody knows how to surpress those?

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Post by Snafu_X3 » Wed, 7. Jun 17, 02:05

As you've found, don't bother to set up traders for basics unless you need their products for your own fabs

Can't help with the msg spam, sry; I don't use mods
Wiki X:R 1st Tit capping
Wiki X3:TC vanilla: Guide to generic missions, Guide to finding & capping Aran
Never played AP; all X3 advice is based on vanilla+bonus pack TC or before: AP has not changed much WRT general advice.

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RAVEN.myst
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Wed, 7. Jun 17, 05:03

bbn wrote:Assigned traders really don't have anything to do as npcs grab all e-cells it manages to produce
Yes, station managers are biased to "pull" resources before "pushing" products - so it's a good idea to ensure that a station has all its resources covered in terms of freighters (usually M-size freighters are good enough, depending on where you are located.) With energy arrays, food is a secondary (ie. optional) resource, and you CAN in fact do without it, but it boosts production, so it's not a bad idea to have it stocked. However, such minuscule amounts are used, that an M-sized little freighter is more than ample, or you can opt for a ship that can carry both energy and container class freight, so it is able to export surplus, but that will happen VERY rarely.

bbn wrote: at price set to 5.
Consider letting the station manager auto-set your price - it then adjusts according to supply and demand. Results may or may not be better - when stocks fall low, your price will rise, and as your stocks fill up, the price lowers. NPCs will come buy at the price they are willing to pay, so the asking price stabilizes around the market-supported point. Of course, if you like to be more hands-on, you can tweak the price manually and see at what point the buyers stop coming, and adjust accordingly (perhaps you've already been doing this :D ) You have probably also already noticed that any changes made can take a while to take visible effect, so any tweaks need to be left in place to allow sufficient time to elapse in order to observe the result.

bbn wrote:The array is set in empty space near gemstone manufacture.
Interesting. I didn't realise that NPC buyers were so aware of player-offered goods in empty-space zones - I always, until my most recent playthrough, built in named zones, so this is good to know. Also, Far Out sector is already well supplied with energy from NPC stations, so it's good to hear you're managing to operate there effectively despite that. :)

bbn wrote:The only thing right now that annoys me is constant stream of messages about updates to my account (as I have around 15 automated traders set up with YAT). Anybody knows how to surpress those?
Sorry, I'm afraid not. As I don't use any mods, I don't get spammed by, say, YAT - however, stations of course do also send updates, and once you have a number of stations expect many updates (though they tend to come in waves - I guess there's some time-period update cycle at play.) Unfortunately, incoming video calls tend to interrupt/disrupt all sorts of important things, such as controls while in combat. There are sources and discussions around on how to minimize the impact of this, but as a quick tip: when a message comes in and you want to get rid of it (either because you are busy and need your controls back, or because you have heard that one 57,000 times already and simply want to just get on with it, already! heheh), you can try the following: clicking the mouse interrupts some incoming vidcalls, mostly when docked rather than when in flight; hitting the menu hotkey (default T) and then again to dismiss the menu works for some, though only in flight (not while docked); the interact key (default F, if I'm not mistaken) also stops some; to dismiss incoming notifications obscuring important info on your radar, hitting your radar mode-switch key (default I-can't-remember, as I changed it ages ago...) will clear that - odds are you will need to hit it twice, as you will probably want your radar mode to return to your preference.

Best of luck! :)
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ezra-r
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Post by ezra-r » Wed, 7. Jun 17, 12:58

Snafu_X3 wrote:
ezra-r wrote:
jkflipflop98 wrote:I always just start from the ground up in Devries. They already have food, water, and energy covered. The RoC ships will even help your stations free trade. Then start with the refineries and crystal fabs, then to the medium level stuff like tech fabs and drug dens. Then finally the top tier stuff like arms manufacturing and drone production.
Do they trade with all your high tech factories in Devries? I think the problem there was no profit for high tech products since they didn't buy, haven't tried latest patch for that though
I've found that any product meeting a demand will always trade, although it may take some time for traders to arrive. So building infrastructure such as xtals/RMP/bio in DV is an excellent way to go as once the supporting structures are in place you can go to town on end products & not worry too much about depriving your industry of resources (I've mentioned my Campaign/Plot building plan for DV many times before; search if you wish). WRT hitec trade in DV it's a little (artificially) stymied by the SY turnaround, but once the 2nd SY is up in MA there shouldn't be much of a problem (given a suitable capship trader), & the excess goods ofc are used for more fabs..

OK it takes time, but that's the point of starting small (& gels with RLExp), yes?
Thing is there are no factories that require RMP or any other high tech in Devries aside from a few items from the shiphard, hence my question.

food, water and similar is already a stablished market in Devries from which you can't take much.

Just assume you have 10 million, which factory would you build? WHEN in game time would you recover that exact amount from the initial investment.

without refering to Devris in particular:
The point of starting small is that it helps you with income to go big later which requires much more investment, but the "income help" from starting small in Devries comes too late in the game to make it a viable option, you don't expect to get rich selling water, but you expect a certain amount of income that makes it worthwhile having expended in such thing.

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Post by Snafu_X3 » Thu, 8. Jun 17, 02:33

ezra-r wrote:Thing is there are no factories that require RMP or any other high tech in Devries aside from a few items from the shiphard, hence my question.

Just assume you have 10 million, which factory would you build? WHEN in game time would you recover that exact amount from the initial investment.
Reason to build RMP & supporting fabs in DV is to provide materials for more fabs! Whether they supply mats to the SY or to you is immaterial: either way you make a profit

10M? that's not much, but it's a useful start. OK, off the top of my head I'd prolly start with a couple of M ore miners (as gas can be mined by any trade ship with appropriate drones) & maybe an escort for them. Trade/build up to an unarmed warehouse (remember to build bulk storage, maybe then gas although that's optional). Meanwhile I'll send Skunk around to increase my fleet via whatever means..

Once I have a few more capships, even if only traders, the options expand dramatically. A Tit isn't a particularly bad miner (of any type), plus it can defend itself remotely; likewise it can help WRT defence/offence if necessary

The warehouse above is purely a storage/trading hub. Once a suitable stockpile is accumulated I could use refinery & xtal stations to work up to an RMP station; once there, you're golden WRT trade, & you can work up to producing FR & Bio. It's a kickstarter system :)
Wiki X:R 1st Tit capping
Wiki X3:TC vanilla: Guide to generic missions, Guide to finding & capping Aran
Never played AP; all X3 advice is based on vanilla+bonus pack TC or before: AP has not changed much WRT general advice.

I know how to spell teladiuminumiumium, I just don't know when to stop!

Dom (Wiki Moderator) 8-) DxDiag

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bbn
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Post by bbn » Sun, 8. Oct 17, 23:13

Snafu_X3 wrote: Can't help with the msg spam, sry; I don't use mods
Ha! after so much time and annoyance I found the way. I've created a simple mod file that removes 2 notifications from md/Notifications.xml!

Code: Select all

<remove sel="//cue[@name='PlayerMoneyTransfer']/actions"/>
<remove sel="//cue[@name='BaseRelationChanged']/actions"/>

RainerPrem
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Post by RainerPrem » Mon, 9. Oct 17, 05:46

bbn wrote:
Snafu_X3 wrote: Can't help with the msg spam, sry; I don't use mods
Ha! after so much time and annoyance I found the way. I've created a simple mod file that removes 2 notifications from md/Notifications.xml!

Code: Select all

<remove sel="//cue[@name='PlayerMoneyTransfer']/actions"/>
<remove sel="//cue[@name='BaseRelationChanged']/actions"/>
Oh, how I wish it would be possible to switch those annoying messages off. It's the thing I really hate. Why can't they just result in a "Ping" like in X3 and I can respond to them when time allows.

cu
Rainer

RAVEN.myst
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Mon, 9. Oct 17, 05:59

RainerPrem wrote:Oh, how I wish it would be possible to switch those annoying messages off. It's the thing I really hate. Why can't they just result in a "Ping" like in X3 and I can respond to them when time allows.
Indeed! And to add further injury to injury, they obscure the radar/target info display while coming in. I really hope that X4 comes with a three-way setting for this: full/verbose comms, brief/terse comms, and just-STFU-already mode (with perhaps a simple *ping* as you suggest - preferably also optional, though I would keep it on)
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RainerPrem
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Post by RainerPrem » Mon, 9. Oct 17, 06:15

RAVEN.myst wrote:
RainerPrem wrote:Oh, how I wish it would be possible to switch those annoying messages off. It's the thing I really hate. Why can't they just result in a "Ping" like in X3 and I can respond to them when time allows.
Indeed! And to add further injury to injury, they obscure the radar/target info display while coming in. I really hope that X4 comes with a three-way setting for this: full/verbose comms, brief/terse comms, and just-STFU-already mode (with perhaps a simple *ping* as you suggest - preferably also optional, though I would keep it on)
Hi,

I can really do without all those spoken comments when giving commands. I want my X3-interface back. (Plus the trade UI - that's a real improvement)

I basically see this message interface as the one big bug in X:Rebirth that has not been fixed during the history.

cu
Rainer

MrFiction
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Post by MrFiction » Mon, 9. Oct 17, 17:09

Another fan to turn those messages off.

To make things worse, whenever there is such an update, I can't open the sidebar using a gamepad. I have to wait until all the notifications are gone :cry:

RAVEN.myst
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Mon, 9. Oct 17, 20:19

MrFiction wrote:Another fan to turn those messages off.

To make things worse, whenever there is such an update, I can't open the sidebar using a gamepad. I have to wait until all the notifications are gone :cry:
I use keyboard and mouse, and can tell you that the weird (not to mention inconvenient and downright infuriating!) disabling of the interface is not unique to gamepads - it's a general thing, and I find it not only thoroughly unnecessary, but actually utterly inexplicable: how was it possibly considered a desirable design decision? If not a design decision, then what manner of technical consideration could possibly have necessitated that "feature", the like of which I have *never* before seen in *any* other game?
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