Judge Dredd TV Show

[mrbadger]

If Game of Ti.. Sorry Games of *Thrones*, can make it to seven seasons, surely Judge Dredd Series can make it to two. There may not be quite the 'ahem' exposure potential, but there sure will be the violence.

I know people will start screaming about Firefly, and yes that was good, but it wasn't that good. It was ok, we never got too see whether it would carry on shining or just fall apart. Maybe we were lucky it ended where it did. Like the best stories it ended on a high note.

I've never actually rewatched it, which is unusual for me, I normally do rewatch science fiction I enjoy, including things that only had a few episodes or seasons.

[Jericho]

I know people will start screaming about Firefly, and yes that was good, but it wasn't that good.

I've never actually seen it. I own it on BluRay, and the film, but not watched them. I have flicked through the channels and watched 5 minutes of the guy from Numb3rs as some (possible) bad guy, and thought it looked average at best. (5 minutes taken at random is no way to judge.)


Go back and watch the first season of Star Trek: The Next Generation or Buffy The Vampire Slayer... How the hell they made it to season 2, I've no idea. But thank God that they did.

(If you can find the un-aired Buffy pilot online, it is pure gold. Xander as a 30 year old guy, playing a 15 year old skateboarder... So so so bad to watch him, thank god they changed his character).



So, what are the actor suggestions for Dredd (And will Dredd be gender&race flipped)?
And how wide should the wheels be on his bike?

[birdtable]

As a total flip ...How about Diane Abbot (Labour Shadow Home Secretary),,, just in case peeples go "what films was she in and do wiki search) ... Formidable women .... well ish .... well woman then......

Edit ... I think the wheels have fallen off her bike

Edit ...Sorry I digressed again ... What about Stephen Lang who played Colonel Miles Quaritch in Avatar.

[mrbadger]

So, what are the actor suggestions for Dredd (And will Dredd be gender&race flipped)?
And how wide should the wheels be on his bike?

No way will they gender change him, it wouldn't work. That would kill the series at episode one.

There seem to be strong hints that Karl Urban might take the role. He's a lifelong Dredd fan, which explains how he nailed the role so well. Stallone proved that an actor who doesn't know the character can't do it, or can't for fans who know the lore.

I don't know the lore for the US superheroes, so I don't get bothered by the errors in them (I'm sick of them now, but I was never as upset as some people got).

As for the wheels, Monster truck wide.....

[Morkonan]

Did you read the comics? Those were, visual asthetic aside, pretty dark. Mega City One was not a nice place, or a particulerly safe place. Mega-deaths were fairly common, with causes varied enough to make for some interesting storylines.

(I haven't read them, only bought the occaisional one, for a while, but I did each week for the first 12 years, and still have every comic, plus complilation books for some of my favorite stories)...

I didn't read the comics, though I'm somewhat familiar with some of the foundations of the setting/character.

I just thought the Stallone movie was "decent." It wasn't great, but it was a decent movie. When compared to what should have probably been done for a proper Dredd treatment, I can certainly see how it may have fallen short of that.

I'm in favor of a series. I think it could be pretty good. But, there's a problem, from what I know of the Dredd IP - Unmasking. Not just literally, but in the sense that it seems that Dredd is much more a sort of "primal force" than "character one can empathize with."

What that would mean would be that the series may have to rely heavily on sidekicks and other characters to carry the weight of the audience. Everyone loves watching Dredd kick butt, but he can't do that for an hour for every episode. People will hunger for some "depth" as they try to establish some sort of meaningful connection with the character.

Is Dredd a sympathetic character? I honestly don't know the character well enough. But, if he's not and can't be made to be one without alienating the original fanbase, the show is going to have trouble. (IMO)

[Jericho]

Unmasking. Not just literally, but in the sense that it seems that Dredd is much more a sort of "primal force" than "character one can empathize with."

.....

Is Dredd a sympathetic character? I honestly don't know the character well enough. But, if he's not and can't be made to be one without alienating the original fanbase, the show is going to have trouble. (IMO)

That's what I was trying to get at with my other posts. He has become a very sympathetic character (Okay, so I haven't read the comic in 20 years!!! Maybe a lot has changed). But I watched him go from the cliched super-cop to an older man who starts to question why they need to be so strict. There was once a strip where he just sat in the bath while thieves tried to break into his apartment. He was just enjoying a long soak too much to get up and stop them. Another time he arrested a guy for having illegal newspapers from the 1980's, and he was questioning why it was in the People's best interest not to know why John Cassavetes died in 1989.

Later, he turns to his old mentor for help, and discovers that his mentor/instructor is now ancient, and also has his own doubts. He wears boots a size too small so that he moans about the boots all the time rather than 'thinking'. Dredd orders boots too small as well.

There are lots of little things that all seem to build up over the years (usually to some big story line about him quitting, or clones judges, or some other big reset, so it starts all over again.)

That's why I wonder if they could start with some kind of Watchmen montage where you see him turn from the Mega City One Ideal Judge, into someone more jaded, and becomes even more so with each random act of violence he has to witness/commit.

Also, he definitely does have a soft side. There was a story about a guy who had 4 or 5 jobs as he had a mental disorder to work (He worked as a bed-tester to catch up on his sleep). With unemployment at 98%, it was illegal to have more than one job. So instead of sending him to an isocube, Dredd gives him 20 years hard labor. They guy is ecstatic and thanks him.

Depending on how you look at it, that is either:
a) Somewhat amusing.
b) Shows Dredd does have a heart.
c) Chilling example of systemic abuse by the totalitarian state, where the victim actually thanks his evil overlords for the even harsher punishment.

[mrbadger]

Judge Anderson (in the stories I read, things seem to have carried on further after) often tried to get him to be more sympathetic.

Usually with little success, with the lesson being that ’sympathy gets you killed in MC1’, because even she ultimately wasn’t all that soft. Just more sympathetic then him.

It would be possible to empathise with him, because Dredd did/does struggle with his origin and the system. He’s clashed with it multiple times and demanded reform, so he’s not an automaton.

Dredd is, in short, no Robocop.

It’s really hard to summarise years of Dredd lore into a single post, but he’s not just a cop with a gun. He’s more than the character Stallone portrayed.

His Angst over Rico for instance was nothing like what was portrayed in that stupid movie. They reduced what was in essence an existential crisis that almost destroyed him into an action movie backdrop. It made me almost as angry as the helmet thing…..

And what was wrong with Walter the Camp robot? Walter was the first, and probably only character who totally loved Dredd, but Dredd could have thrown him out at any time.

He often got angry at him and threatened him, or at least shouted at him, (I'd have to dig through boxes of comics to find out which it was, and that's a rabbit hole I can ill afford today), but he never actually got rid of him.

Therefore proving that even in the darkest times he was still a person needing someone to care about him, even if that person was a slightly mad robot.

I always liked Walter.

[Jericho]

"Judge Dwedd! Judge Dwedd! I'm leaking oil I was so wowwied about you Judge Dwedd!"


He's barely 1 step from Jar Jar Binks.

[mrbadger]

Not really, Walter had an origin story that made sense...

[Morkonan]

Watching "Dredd" right now. Am already disappointed at the setting, cause it looks like Robocop instead of some huge dystopian city. But, will keep watching.

Edit: Watched it. "Judge Dredd" is still the better movie. "Dredd" just didn't make much sense, wasn't really a well-told story, writing was... bad... really bad, and not in a "campy" way bad. Just my opinion and Dredd fans may like the later one for fan-reasons, I suppose.

[mrbadger]

They got the city completelly wrong, and the uniforms. no denying that. The VW Beetle Van in the early scene was absurd. That bothered me. But they did the whole movie in one block.

It was the character of Dredd they got right. And yes, maybe it would be mostly fans that would appeal to.


There still hasn't been a Judge Dredd movie that's got everything right, and with two flops on record, it seems movie adaptions are off the table now.

But the TV series is under the full control of the IP holders, so this time it should be better.

It looks like Karl Urban is on board as Dredd.

[birdtable]

I think budgetary constraints were evident in the Dredd film, there were some very good cinematic moments though, I thought the slo mo fall at the end was well done.... There will be a very narrow band to work with to get the TV series right and a very wide band to get it wrong,,,

[mrbadger]

There will be a very narrow band to work with to get the TV series right and a very wide band to get it wrong,,,

I'm not going to disagree with that, and since this is really the only SF series in years that has actually got me interested, I'm rather concerned about all the ways they could screw it up.

I'm confident that Urban will get Dredd right, and they do have the IP, but that doesn't mean everything will get done well.

It took years of trying (and failing) for Marvel to get their movies right, and if Rebelliion just copy Marvel as it is now then we could just end up with another boring superhero clone show.

The look is important too, they need to mirror the look of the comics, or it just won't work.

It doesn't matter how keen I am on it, if they don't do that it won't be Mega City One and I won't watch it.

[Morkonan]

..That's what I was trying to get at with my other posts. He has become a very sympathetic character (Okay, so I haven't read the comic in 20 years!!! Maybe a lot has changed). But I watched him go from the cliched super-cop to an older man who starts to question why they need to be so strict. ...

I agree that it would be difficult to show that gradual change, but it could be done. Plenty of characters go through their development/change in stories of varying lengths, so it's not really that hard to do. Most of what the reader/viewer sees is "interpreted", anyway. Did that one, singular, event in the book/movie actually completely turn around this character? No, not really, but it's the pivot point that's focused on, usually with a lot of foreshadowing and lead-up. That can be done in a movie as well as across a series, as long as the viewer... keeps watching.

The montage is a good idea, by the way. In The Watchmen, that montage very definitely set the stage for a group of disenfranchised heroes and forgotten ideals. It's a wonderful movie moment and a great story-telling tool.

On "Slo Mo" and why it illustrates exactly the sort of ineptitude that made "Dredd" a "not good" movie:

The opening Slo-Mo sequence where we first see it in use and we first see "Ma-Ma", also known as "that lady with the scar who stares a lot", was about three and a half hours too friggin long. An arm coming out of a bathtub for thirty-seven hours and fifty-five minutes adds exactly thirty-seven hours, fifty-four minutes and forty-five seconds of "nothing of value" to the story or the information that the viewer needs in order to understand the implications of what it is they are seeing. Worse, it's distracting... very distracting.

And, what's the big deal, anyway? Slo-Mo isn't a big deal. It doesn't hurt anyone. Even the biggest crime boss making the stuff doesn't care about using it. Nobody is hurt by it, nobody is reduced to some quivering, pulsing, mass of bleeding flesh after they become addicted to it... All it does is make things feel like they're slowed down.

They never once communicated anything, as far as I can remember, of value concerning the negative impacts of "Slo-Mo" addiction nor why the Judges should act against it. I might have missed that part, or maybe I didn't, but if it was so terrible, and this block was ground-zero for production, why weren't there pitiful addicts and their dessicated husks laying around all over the place? Child addicts with their guts exploding, mothers cutting up their babies, dogs and cats, living together...

Nothing. Slo-Mo is less damaging than sniffing glue.

And, on sniffing glue, Lena Headey was wasted on that character. Ma-Ma did stupid crap or nothing at all, end of story. I laughed out loud when she said "Concentrate your fire" when talking to the minigunners, as if she was some sort of paramilitary person rather than a used up hooker. They should have made her right-hand-guy that sort of character, but they killed him out of hand, without any fanfare whatsoever.. nothing. They try to build him in as some sort of partner/loyal henchman figure in her first scene, then he becomes just another body Dredd throws over the balcony? WTF? What a waste.

Slo-Mo was stupid-dumb. Ma-Ma was a waste of ink in the script, made worse by reducing Headey to staring her lines at the screen instead of adding some energy to what was a tired, poorly written walk-on excuse for badly written one-liners...

Sorry, got carried away a bit. But, most assuredly, I could go on.

(Corrupting the "Judges" with money reduces the overall impact and moral superiority they were trying to force upon the Judge characters to begin with... it's like shooting yourself in the foot with a script. Friggin' stoopid. And they pay money to these people to write this crap?)

[birdtable]

Obviously Morkonan was not impressed ...

1. Cannot remember the last film that had a good script... so nothing unusual there ..par for the course.
2. Slo Mo .... purely for the visual effects that could be used otherwise could have been any drug you fancy inventing ... because who would use a drug that prolonged the time spent in purgatory.
3. Ma Ma ... No depth to character, as in scripts .. par for the course.
4. Corruption of the judges,, lazy lazy but as in scripts, Ma Ma par for the course.. just like when Dredd gets shot,, staples fix the wound on the abdomen what about the freaking great hole in the wall ,,,Dredd must have had half a brick wall in his back ... but then par for the course.
But taking even these few issues into account it was still better than Stallone's version ....

[mrbadger]

Things wrong with Stallones movie:

1: Stallone took his helmet off....
2: Rico was an absurd version of that character.
3: Dredd did not act like Dredd at all.
4: What the hell was he riding off to at the end?
5: Stallone took his helmet off....

Neither of the movies were good. They were bothe box office flops for many reasons. The only good thing to come out of the second one was Karl Urban.

And I couldn't quite see what the problem with slo-mo was either...

But then suger was also a class A drug too in MC1 (a thing without which we actually die instantly), so there's that.

[Jericho]

The opening Slo-Mo sequence where we first see it in use and we first see "Ma-Ma", also known as "that lady with the scar who stares a lot", was about three and a half hours too friggin long.


----

And, what's the big deal, anyway? Slo-Mo isn't a big deal. It doesn't hurt anyone.

I believe the slo-mo effects were to show off the good-3D that the film was filmed in (not the fake 3d like most films, where they add it afterwards and everything is really dark). Apparently, those slo-mo effects were a big deal at the time.

I think 3D has more or less died since then.

As to "what's the big deal", that's Mega City 1 for you. Everything is illegal. Judges can do a Crime Blitz on your apartment at anytime. They pull everything apart, smash everything, and promise to pay for all repairs... If you are innocent.

No one is ever innocent of course. An overdue library book, a single grain of sugar, every one is guilty of something, because everything is illegal, and therefore anyone can be arrested at any time. How else are you going to keep control?

[birdtable]

There was one thing Stallone's Dredd had .... bigger shinier epaulettes, and they were big shiny epaulettes and I mean really big shiny epaulettes..... That is the film .. Big Shiny Epaulettes..

Edit ...After giving it some thought (after all the subject is worthy of some deep contemplation)..It demonstrates the dangers of straight transfers from comic to film,,, epaulettes (cannot think of better terminology) work fine in the comic but look out of place in a film.

[Jericho]

epaulettes (cannot think of better terminology) work fine in the comic but look out of place in a film.

Yes, also it didn't help that the shotgun Dredd had for most of the film (You know, Dredd famous for using a shotgun, sigh) looked like it weighed about 3oz. They should have added some lead to it.


Karl Urban's costume looked more realistic and practical (loved the scratched helmet too). But the stupid small shoulders gave the judges a very nasty body shape. Very odd design I thought. Should have added a bit of bulk to them.


Also, it depends on who draws Dredd. That eagle can be the size of a regular human sometimes, when the more 'out-there' artist is drawing.

Madness: https://goo.gl/images/axr39u
https://goo.gl/images/rzIjyu

[mrbadger]

I seem to recall the same thing happening to the Lawmaster as well, depending on who was drawing it.

I suppose this is the 'cannon' bike.

The 'I'm mostly eating salads, does it show?' bike

The 'I'm doing 80% of light speed' bike

The ''I've got to get this of off to be coloured in ten minutes' bike

There are better examples I'm sure, but that would again require the digging out of my collection.