Why is US News so Bad?

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mrbadger
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Why is US News so Bad?

Post by mrbadger » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 21:07

From the Trump thread:
felter wrote:You know there is something seriously wrong, when people are using late night comedian talk shows to get there news on what is happening in the world.
This was in relation to my seeking a useful source of news on Trump and without realising he was a comedian, finding Seth Meyers, having long since given up on US TV news outlets as being credible.

At the time I found his reporting to be the most useful when compared to the oher outlets, and since then, in spite of gradually widening my sources, I still find myself going back to him for summaries.
So why is this?

What happened to US news to make them so bad that Comedians can do a better job?

I do recall an interview with George Carlin where he was saying that Comedians have a platform, and almost a duty, to lay out the truth in a way that the conventional media don't dare approach. I'm not sure Meyer is in that catagory, he's nowhere near Georges class (lets face it, George was never late night Talk show material, what with his seven words thing...), but he's doing a better job then most news anchors.


In fact Seth has had quite a long association with Trump, it made for interesting reading, so perhaps he really is the best person to go to for an opinion.
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Post by Mightysword » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 21:39

Well, the only response I can tell you is that the quote that you use:
felter wrote:You know there is something seriously wrong, when people are using late night comedian talk shows to get there news on what is happening in the world.
Is simply an opinion of a person, and by no mean should be taken as a fact or even a popular sentiment.
What happened to US news to make them so bad that Comedians can do a better job?
Well, some people believe that's the case, doesn't necessary make that true. In fact, if I see someone who actually believe that then, with all due respect, I have to call in question on the judgment of the very person. After all, most people like to be over dramatic, melodramatic, and satire make people laugh, but that doesn't mean it's actual serious. :wink:

Just like when someone say their dog can govern better than whoever currently in the office. Well, even if whoever in charge is pretty bad, but that sentiment is only good for a laugh, nothing more. :lol:

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Re: Why is US News so Bad?

Post by Len5 » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 21:56

mrbadger wrote:What happened to US news to make them so bad that Comedians can do a better job?
Comedians get their material from the same sources as US news (and so are you), so they can't be better.

Journalists should be objective, comedians don't have to be and they pretty much never are.
I personally don't trust comedians, because I know they twist the truth to be able to make a joke. They mostly just make up entire stories.

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Post by philip_hughes » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 22:49

I get the majority of international news from here. Much faster and more accurate than the press. Someone posts an article and a few locals give their opinion. You get the press and the word on the street.
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Post by Mightysword » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 23:40

Another thing worth mentioning that IMO, these when most people say a "source" good or bad, it doesn't really have anything to do with how accurate the source is, but simply base on how much the person agree with the "source".

Will you be watching a comedy show if you dislike the comedian? There you have it, the comedian is "good source of news" have nothing to do with whatever he's saying is correct is not, a person think it good because that comedian is saying what he/she wants to hear, with a little extra kick at the expense of the people/policy that he/she hates.

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Re: Why is US News so Bad?

Post by mrbadger » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 23:42

Len5 wrote:
mrbadger wrote:What happened to US news to make them so bad that Comedians can do a better job?
Comedians get their material from the same sources as US news (and so are you), so they can't be better.
They can be better, because the presentation and Bias of most US news services is blatantly awful.

Ours isn't exactly perfect, but it's vastly better than the US has.
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Re: Why is US News so Bad?

Post by Mightysword » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 23:50

mrbadger wrote: They can be better, because the presentation and Bias of most US news services is blatantly awful.
Implying the comedians are not bias or as bias? Oh the irony ... :D

I'm not sure if you're aware, but it's not rare in the US for well known and popular comedians to be invited to a party convention, sometime even given the podium. AFAIK, most highly rated comedian in the US have a very clear political affiliation, it's just by nature they're allowed to have more space in taking a dig at their own party once a while without having to face a consequence a politician does.

And Len5 brought up a very good point, comedians are not journalist and neither they are investigator. No matter how neutral they are, they are incapable of sourcing their own material. In that essence, they can only take their information from the same source as the rest of us, and put their own spin on it. Not really different than you or me would do on an internet forum, just a bit more funny perhaps. And at that point then it's just like I said: if you agree, it's good, if you don't agree, then it's bad :wink:
Last edited by Mightysword on Sat, 10. Jun 17, 23:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by felter » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 23:55

Mightysword wrote:Well, the only response I can tell you is that the quote that you use:
felter wrote:You know there is something seriously wrong, when people are using late night comedian talk shows to get there news on what is happening in the world.
Is simply an opinion of a person, and by no mean should be taken as a fact or even a popular sentiment.
What I said was not an opinion, what you are saying is more of an opinion as you are saying in your opinion what I said was an opinion. What I said was a statement to MrB saying that he was getting his news form Seth Meyers, who is a late night show comedian host. But it is actually quite true, as there is 3 comedians that I get most of my American news from, and most of what they say is not actually picked up by the mainstream news channels for several days after the comedians are bringing it up, which is interesting maybe they should be listening to these comedians too. Then again it does show just how much of a joke America is right now to the rest of the world, now that is an opinion. :D
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Post by Mightysword » Sun, 11. Jun 17, 00:04

felter wrote:what you are saying is more of an opinion
Never claim otherwise, the only difference is I'm not adamant that my opinion is not an opinion.

But it is actually quite true, as there is 3 comedians that I get most of my American news from,
And I think I'm also very clear what is my thought on that regard in my first post. :)
and most of what they say is not actually picked up by the mainstream news channels for several days after the comedians are bringing it up
And consider how I absolutely hate the "who gonna broke it first" culture in modern media, that's hardly a bonus for me. Unless it's about a natural disaster, I don't mind my news are given after the fact, when all the fact check are done. That's why I used to have a lot of respect for BBC, back like over 20 years ago, they always tended to be behind of other outlet, but once their article is out, generally it's something I know I can trust.

As for your suggestion, thanks but no thanks. When I'm looking for news, I'm looking for news, not a talk show. That's why I always read several outlet from multiple politcal spectrum and countries to simply stay informed, I pretty much don't care about whoever's interpretation of a news item is which frankly, is exactly what a Comedian does, perhaps even far more than most journalists.

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Post by mrbadger » Sun, 11. Jun 17, 00:19

I'm currently finding rather hard to watch all the way through this Watergate Lawyer: If Donald Trump Tries To Fight Subpoenas, He Will Lose and I'm not going to get past the three minute mark, even though it's only 8 minutes long, because it's frankly, total nonsense. Not even slightly real news, and they have to know it. They are talking to watergate experts about tapes they themselves admit almost certainly don't exist outside empty threats in tweets.

There is real news happening, and they're finding stuff to put sensational headlines on. I thought it would be interesting. I was so very wrong. This is the second time this particuler presenter has turned out to have what I would call non news, so I won't bother with him again.

So no, not giving up on Seth, and now I know he's a comedian I've been looking for more, and finding others who are doing a better job then the 'mainstream news' too.....

Maybe it's because they don't have editors putting pressure on them?

I'm sure there was another comedian who said about them being the people who should shine a light on the problems in the world or somesuch thing. Basically talk about them and refuse to be edited. Can't remember who. Maybe Bill Hicks?
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Re: Why is US News so Bad?

Post by Morkonan » Sun, 11. Jun 17, 04:32

mrbadger wrote:...
What happened to US news to make them so bad that Comedians can do a better job?...
It's not that bad, really.

However, it does contain a number of extremely biased networks and is also full of "talking heads" that have their own agendas, namely to keep their faces in front of cameras.

Cable news networks compete for viewers, but few viewers actually "switch" from their favorite network, the one that tells them "they're right." Instead, when they do change the channel, it's because another network is covering more of whatever story they're interested in than the one they're currently watching. So.... the networks go overboard with news specials and dissecting whatever dumb crap just happened that attracts viewers like a train-wreck full of chickens dressed in those little suits and tophats they like to wear. (Or whatever.)

However, the print-media in the US is doing a bang-up job with "investigative reporting." Investigative reporting, these days, is when a major newspaper gets called by someone who wants to tell them a secret and then they print it so that the cable news networks will have something to focus their programming around for that evening.... or week of evenings...

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Post by Mightysword » Sun, 11. Jun 17, 05:21

mrbadger wrote:I'm currently finding rather hard to watch all the way through this Watergate Lawyer: If Donald Trump Tries To Fight Subpoenas, He Will Lose and I'm not going to get past the three minute mark, even though it's only 8 minutes long, because it's frankly, total nonsense. Not even slightly real news, and they have to know it. They are talking to watergate experts about tapes they themselves admit almost certainly don't exist outside empty threats in tweets.
Ah, now I see what the problem is. :) tldr version at the end.

The problem is you're treating those things as news while they are most certainly not. I remember when I was a kid, my father used to buy several newspapers a week (since in my country each paper comes out on a specific day of the week) and they are "littered" with what you call "news". Event X happened at place Y + available statistic. Most are very short, because they're just that: fact of something happens without an ounce of opinion add on. News is when it breaks that an airplane had crashed at certainly location + how many number onboard under what conditions, news is when the investigation complete and the actual casualty report + cause of crashed is known. News is NOT about the station hiring a bunch of so call "expert" and make prediction or speculation about "what may have or have not happened" during the course of the investigation, at least to me that's not news.

My favorite newspaper was the one from the police. Reading their newspaper is like reading a log book of a secretary documented a board meeting, or a warehouse's ledger. The longer pieces on their newspaper is the one where they describe the actual investigations, but the majority of the paper are short, concise piece like I describe above. The paper itself doesn't have a lot of page, but you get a week worth of information because it's simply pack with concise piece of information without any extra fat. And to give an example of what I mean by a neutral tone:

A: Mr.X, who police believe to be the suspect behind the death of 20 murder case in city Y, has been apprehended at address Z after a combine investigation between unit alpha and beta. The suspect is now in custody awaiting trial in 20 days.

Comparing to:

B: Mr.X, who police believe to be the heartless criminal who responsible the ruthless murder of 20 people in city Y, has finally been apprehended at address Z after a long and diffcult manhunt between alpha and beta. The suspect is now in custody awaiting the day he will finally face justice and provide the victim family with much needed relief.


B is the version we tend to get these days, and often a lot more dramatic than that. But when I was a kid, version A was what I consider as "news". As I said above, what you just show is not a news service, but rather a talk show, it's a talkshow that talk about current news, but its purpose is not inform people but to provide entertainment to those particularly enjoy it, just like any other shows. :wink:

Not everything comes out of a new-station is news, maybe 20-30 years ago when the solve purpose of a news outlet is to provide outlet, that's no longer the case "anywhere" in the world. After all, if the only thing they do is report news and nothing but news, most station wouldn't need more than 2-3 hours a day on the air.


tldr: if we take one of the more political thread on this forum, and ask all participant to come to a studio to repeat everything we wrote in front of the camera, you'll get something pretty close to what happening in that video. But will you call that "news" ? :p

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Post by pjknibbs » Sun, 11. Jun 17, 08:31

I don't think comedians are any less likely to be biased than an actual news source. The reason the panel game "Have I Got News For You" works so well is, IMHO, because the two regular panellists (Ian Hislop and Paul Merton) are from very different places on the political spectrum--if they were both rabid Labour voters I think that bias would be obvious and would diminish the show.

The main news comedy shows in the US, run by Stephen Colbert, Trevor Noah, John Oliver and Seth Meyers, are all very anti-Trump, and all very funny. They're entertaining to watch and reinforce our pre-conceived notions about what Trump is doing, so of course they'll seem good to us. I suspect the actual truth lies somewhere in between the comedians and the mostly pro-Trump news, in reality.

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Post by Golden_Gonads » Sun, 11. Jun 17, 10:27

All US News agencies seem to be unashamedly biased and support one party or the other in exchange for exclusive access and what-not, so it's nigh impossible to get a 'true' reporting from any of them. This then trickles down to them supporting agenda's which hype up or baton down on stories that the political parties support or are against.

Another problem seems to be that they are all for-profit companies, so sensationalising the news so it sells more papers/gets more viewers is the norm. I solidly blame the US media for a great number of problems over there that simply would not exist if they hadn't exacerbated the issue.

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Post by Chips » Sun, 11. Jun 17, 13:22

News outlets report the actual news. Some are biased (Fox), but overwhelmingly, their job is to report fact, and not tell you what to think.

The comedian's will point out any hypocrisy, or impart meaning into what has been said. They'll link it back to prior statements and so on, but by and large will align to their political opinion.

Political commentary on news channels (not news, but the discussions about said news) will try to analyse said news (preferably without any bias) but those aren't news. They generally try to get commentators from either side involved, which can often lead to ridiculous squabbles, statements of idiocy and more :D

p.s. All your comedians suck compared to the God that was John Stewart (The Daily Show); he was fricken hilarious. The rest are poor imitations.
Not Trump related, he retired, but stuff like this was great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPgZfhnCAdI

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Post by felter » Sun, 11. Jun 17, 20:40

More than once these comedians have apologised for picking on Trump, as most of them don't care who it is or what party it is they are from, they just like taking the crap out of them for what they are getting up to. But as they put it, the problem is while they have other things to take the crap out of, Trump just keeps on feeding them far more juicy material, that they just don't have time to do the other stuff. As I have said in other threads, Trump is his own worst enemy, the one thing that he really, really, really needs to stop doing is using Twitter. If he did just this one thing, he would cut a large portion of the news that these comedians have to use, and they could go and pick on someone else for a change.
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Post by Jericho » Mon, 12. Jun 17, 10:09

"Are your children at risk? Which of these chemicals in your home could kill your child instantly? Tune in this Friday at 11!"

That is what is wrong with US news.

It is clickbait.

DailyMail online is apparently the most popular news website it the world... I really don't think the work "news" should be there.


I get all my news from The Onion. I just read it on a 2 year delay, and it is all now true.
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Post by philip_hughes » Mon, 12. Jun 17, 13:38

Why is all news so bad? My current news source www.news.com.au
Is full of click bait, scandalous outraged articles about celebrities that have been snapped in the nude and thinly veiled ads for stuff.

On top of this the spelling is appalling.

You can tell if it's real news because it has the same spelling and grammar as a Nigerian prince email.
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Post by mrbadger » Mon, 12. Jun 17, 16:45

UK newspapers, the Tabloids at least, are a joke, not Newspapers at all.

Maybe they are a long time ago, but I'm not sure if they ever really were, or I just wasn't mature enough to realise how bad they were.

Perhaps the quality (quality in this context just meaning 'bigger') newspapers are better, but since I don't buy them, I can't comment. I've read articles from the quality newspapers online, and they seem good enough, but the overall bias of the newspaper is hard to judge without seeing the whole thing, and that over a sustained period.

And yet our Broadcast Media seems to be a lot more reliable. But then Stations can, and do, lose their Licence to broadcast if their news isn't up to the required standard. I guess that doesn't happen in the US.

Newspapers on the other hand can get away with printing any old garbage unless they cross a legal line that I suppose any company might cross.

That happened a few years back, killed a newspaper (News of the World) outright and got some people jailed.
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Post by Mightysword » Mon, 12. Jun 17, 17:09

That is why it's really hard to judge whether the regulation of one country is better than the others. You can find some area that are better in one country but leaving you in disbelief in other area.


For example, the fact that the Sun is still in business is quite something. Yes, media outlet in the US is extremely bias but there are line they will not cross no matter what, and even in the rare case someone overstep their bound, they will always offer apology in face of public outcry.

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