Fire in London- everyone ok?

philip_hughes · Post by **philip_hughes** » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 10:01

http://www.smh.com.au/world/london-fire ... wqwv9.html

Hope all the forum poms are nice and safe

Bishop149 · Post by **Bishop149** » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 11:28

Well, I'll check in as being ok.

Its awful, they've started to confirm fatalities, just from the pictures and the reported speed at which the flames spread I'd imagine it would be a minor miracle if the death toll is low.

This is doing the rounds and seems startlingly prescient:
https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.c ... with-fire/
There is also much talk of government cuts to fire and safety services, as well as delays to a major investigation into the fire safety of London's tower blocks.

I suspect that once the dust settles we are in for some pretty major fallout.

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 12:58

Yeah, it's pretty horrendous, and the fact the fire gutted the place so quickly suggests something was not right with the fire protection in that building.

felter · Post by **felter** » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 13:58

This sis pretty darn scary. I was thinking just what would I do if I was on to top floor of a block of flats that was on fire below me and I came up with nothing. I have no idea what I would do. how I would get out there.

I hope it is just the 6 that has died, but deep down I doubt it is.

Ezarkal · Post by **Ezarkal** » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 14:26

Grim news. I hope the death/injury toll stay low, and no one of the forum was affected.

@ Felter. I feel you there. That's a pretty bad scenario to be in. If I lived in such a building I'd end up considering a skysaver.

Memnoch · Post by **Memnoch** » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 16:22

I have no doubts that heads will roll over this. It might even turn into one of those "Corporate manslaughter" situations.

This morning on the news there were discussions around possible warnings in 2013 over faulty wiring and that flags had been raised over possible fire risks in the building.

felter · Post by **felter** » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 19:21

Flats should not burn like that, they are designed so that if one flat goes on fire it should not spread to any of the other flats around it, it should be a self contained fire making it easier for fire services to put the fire out.

So it's not just the question of how the fire started, to me it is more important to ask how did the fire spread so easily, as that should not have happened. Seemingly the block of flats has been quite recently renovated, has someone there cut corners and used a wrong but cheaper material that was not as fire resistant as it should have been. looking at some of the photo's, it does look like the fire spread a fair bit on the outside of the building, which once again it shouldn't have been able to do so, and that is one of the things that was part of the recent renovation.

Another thing that also has to be looked at, is whether the recent austerity cuts have been a contributing factor in any kind of way. I'm not saying that this contributed to the fire but more along the lines of did the emergency services have the staff and equipment to tackle this sort of emergency. Also if people lives were put at risk due to them not having the correct equipment and or staff. They also need to look at what happened in the rest of London, as so many fire-fighters were required at this single fire, were there enough fire services available to keep the rest of the city safe and serviced.

There are quite a few questions that need to be both asked and answered at this time, some that someone out there will not want to be either asked nor answered.

muppetts · Post by **muppetts** » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 19:48

Christ people live steamed, you could see people at the windows, calling for help, 5 minutes later just flames, must be worst fire in a long time.

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 19:50

How in the heck did this thing spread so fast? Something just isn't right with that, IMO.

felter · Post by **felter** » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 20:30

An interesting development, the company behind the renovation released a statement earlier which said:

[The project] met all required building control, fire regulation and health and safety standards."

They have now released a new statement which now says:

The project met all required building regulations and handover took place when the completion notice was issued by the Department of Building Control, Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea."

The fire regulation has now been removed from their statement.

Ripskar · Post by **Ripskar** » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 22:04

127 flats (families) aprox. 4-600 people, 78 treated in hospitals.
The numbers don't look good.

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 22:13

Already 12 confirmed dead and the total likely to rise as they sift through the wreckage.

Ezarkal · Post by **Ezarkal** » Thu, 15. Jun 17, 00:35

Ripskar wrote:127 flats (families) aprox. 4-600 people, 78 treated in hospitals.
The numbers don't look good.

They did manage to get a lot of people out, though. Firefighters managed to reach up to floor 20 (out of 24).

Gotta commend their dedication and courage.

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Thu, 15. Jun 17, 00:53

Fire fighters - unsung heros. I hope, I will never be in a situation that gets underpayed people like them risking their lifes to save mine.
Honest meant salute.

Post by **Terre** » Thu, 15. Jun 17, 12:21

The number of known dead has increased to 17.

RegisterMe · Post by **RegisterMe** » Thu, 15. Jun 17, 12:49

If the final death toll comes out below 100 I will be absolutely astonished

. It could well go higher

.

Bishop149 · Post by **Bishop149** » Thu, 15. Jun 17, 12:53

To early for full facts yet so the below with a hint of disclaimer.
But some points for consideration:

- It seems likely that the "cladding" that was recently added to the building was the reason the fire spread so quickly. If the below about its primary purpose being to pretty up the tower block as part of the ongoing gentrification of the area then this is a national disgrace, social cleansing just turned deadly.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 89951.html

- I saw a resident on the News claiming that in case of fire they were told to stay put as the fireproofing of their flats would protect them for up to an hour. I initially thought he must be mistaken because that would be ridiculous. Fire doors etc are designed buy you time to evacuate, not to allow you to ignore a bloody fire!
But this is a picture of a sign from a nearby block run by the same company, he would seem to have been right. As a fire procedure that is utterly insane, the alarm is raised you evacuate, simple as.

- In yet another blow to our Prime Minister it seems she just replace her much disgraced chief advisers with the man who was responsible for mothballing a report on the fire safety of London's Tower blocks (after a very similar fire): http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/g ... d4fbe45929

- One of the Labour parties more surprising manifesto pledges was to to ensure that private rented properties were "fit for human habitation”. Surprising because it seems unconscionable that such a law did not already exist. Labour had previously tried to add this to the law twice, and the Tories voted it down both times.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 09691.html

Ezarkal · Post by **Ezarkal** » Thu, 15. Jun 17, 14:07

Bishop149 wrote:- I saw a resident on the News claiming that in case of fire they were told to stay put as the fireproofing of their flats would protect them for up to an hour. I initially thought he must be mistaken because that would be ridiculous. Fire doors etc are designed buy you time to evacuate, not to allow you to ignore a bloody fire!
But this is a picture of a sign from a nearby block run by the same company, he would seem to have been right. As a fire procedure that is utterly insane, the alarm is raised you evacuate, simple as.

Yes and no. In a correctly fireproofed building, the fire proofing of each apartment will buy it's resident a few hours before a fire can even cross the wall or the door. That delay is usually well enough for firefighters to contain a small fire, or to get to you for evacuation. So the biggest danger there should be is asphyxia from the smoke in the corridors. In that regard, it does make sense to ask people to remain indoor until assistance arrives.

Now of course, if the building isn't properly fireproofed, it becomes a deathtrap. The cladding was mentioned. I believe it make some kind of flashover effect that would explain why the fire spread so quickly.

Basically, it was a combination of poor design, neglect, insufficient regulation?? (or disrespect of existing regulation) and bad luck...

Edit: Typos

Memnoch · Post by **Memnoch** » Thu, 15. Jun 17, 17:45

I saw a fire expert on the news this morning show how a handful of that stuff that they used to clad the outer skin of the building is extremely flammable. To be honest I would be happy to use that as a BBQ starter so I'm horrified at the realisation that not only was this considered safe to use and also how many other buildings are coated with that stuff.

If I were a tenant and new about this right now I would be demanding relocation to another building or at least for that stuff to be raked off the walls.

Post by **Terre** » Fri, 16. Jun 17, 13:38

The number of known dead has increased to 30.

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Fire in London- everyone ok?

Fire in London- everyone ok?