Paid DLC in X4

This forum is the ideal place for all discussion relating to X4. You will also find additional information from developers here.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

Post Reply
Vector_Gorgoth
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat, 23. Mar 13, 01:49
x3ap

Paid DLC in X4

Post by Vector_Gorgoth » Wed, 2. Aug 17, 20:16

I'd like to know if this particular "feature" is going to be retained in X4.
It's pretty much going to control whether or not I have any interest in the game - I pay for games, not "content access subscription models".

User avatar
Killjaeden
Posts: 5366
Joined: Sun, 3. Sep 06, 18:19
x3tc

Post by Killjaeden » Wed, 2. Aug 17, 20:20

Everyone knows the answer, and you do too. So you might as well leave now.
I'd like to know if this particular "feature" is going to be retained in X4.
Would you rather have it so that they release a new game with the new content instead (at the respective price) ? X3 Albion Prelude was just that... compared to Terran Conflict.
[ external image ]
X-Tended TC Mod Team Veteran.
Modeller of X3AP Split Acinonyx, Split Drake, Argon Lotan, Teladi Tern. My current work:
Image

Vector_Gorgoth
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat, 23. Mar 13, 01:49
x3ap

Post by Vector_Gorgoth » Wed, 2. Aug 17, 20:49

TC and AP both seem to indicate it's possible to release these games for a fair price and flesh them out over time. Egosoft players are used to waiting a year+ for the games to really be done after release. (Either that, or Egosoft is/was deeply in debt from developing those games; if so, maybe telling their players that would be nice instead of pretending it's doing the players a favour when they change their sales model.)

Compare that to X:R - the reviews on Steam are bad; recent reviews are better, but the game has a horribly bad reputation that it will probably never recover from. It wasn't just the fact that the game stank on release that upset people; it was the fact that Egosoft released it in that state and then had the nerve to start charging for additional content before the base game was even fully functional.

Egosoft isn't a big company. They may be able to profit by exploiting their players, or not--they don't have the kind of brand recognition that companies usually rely upon when doing this sort of thing, but the market for space games is very limited, and the general disasters with the other big name space games (No Man's Sky, e.g.) are probably driving people back to more reliable (if less ambitious) franchises like the X series. I also don't know just how many players decided to jump ship after X:R happened, but I do know that I never bought a copy and I've simply been waiting in the wings to see if they'd learn from the debacle and go back to how they used to do things with X4.

Oh well. I guess being told to gtfo by stockholmed fans is part of speaking out against crap like this.

User avatar
ezra-r
Posts: 3420
Joined: Fri, 14. Oct 05, 21:04
x4

Post by ezra-r » Wed, 2. Aug 17, 20:56

the game hasn't been released and you want to discuss about paid DLC.

This and the tone of the message and the last reply... Seriously, just relax? Do like everyone should do, buy if you like, don't if you don't like. Egosoft will check their numbers sooner or later.

But starting a thread for this? I really don't underdstand.

Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 30369
Joined: Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:21
x4

Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 2. Aug 17, 21:41

While being very well aware of the shortcomings of Rebirth at release, I don't really see any cause for issue over how Ego typically chooses to support and expand their games post-release.

Free updates continue through the game lifetime to give bugfixes and improvement to existing gameplay/UI while paid DLCs add new content and new playstyles that the player can opt to pay for (or not) without any risk to ongoing basic gameplay.

Unlike some companies, I don't see Ego releasing any purely cosmetic or trivial paid DLCs, nor including in their paid DLCs exclusive fixes or content that are necessary to continue to play the base game.

The fact that Ego have encouraged major modding and even community involvement in ongoing game development is surely to be applauded too. I just don't see any issue in any of this and am happy in principle with their concept of paid DLC being developed alongside their ongoing free update regime.
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

Skeeter
Posts: 3665
Joined: Thu, 9. Jan 03, 19:47
x3

Post by Skeeter » Wed, 2. Aug 17, 22:23

I hope for no paid dlc because I bought both for rebirth and they weren't very good as in useless.

If it is having paid extra content it has to be interesting well scripted missions packs which adds new interesting characters, with decent voice over with good dialogue and be like well missions ud find in a decent space game from tears back like freespace2, starlancer etc.

I'm never buying dlc that just basically adds sectors which are samey as other sectors especially with no new ships or stations albeit 1 for teladi dlc, which were unique to the sectors.

X games really need to stop with filling a universe up with bits and bobs and leave little interactivity with it via people and missions to occupy our time for those that CBA with boring bits like building stations or trading which has been dull for awhile. I'm hoping maybe with x4 they add more in that regards instead of focusing too much on sandbox elements, as did all the sandboxing in x2 with thousands of hours, I'm not doing that with each x game, I just wana play missions like I said that are quality.

Getting OT a bit but yeah I hope for less need for dlc in x4. Especially if it was like those from rebirth.
[ external image ]
7600x cpu 5.4ghz 32gb DDR5 5600mhz 6700XT 32" 1440p mon

Sparky Sparkycorp
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 8074
Joined: Tue, 30. Mar 04, 12:28
x4

Post by Sparky Sparkycorp » Wed, 2. Aug 17, 22:23

Vector_Gorgoth wrote:TC and AP both seem to indicate it's possible to release these games for a fair price and flesh them out over time.
AP is itself a DLC for TC.

User avatar
Killjaeden
Posts: 5366
Joined: Sun, 3. Sep 06, 18:19
x3tc

Post by Killjaeden » Thu, 3. Aug 17, 00:29

You have already made up your mind according to your OP. So i'm not sure what response you expected? It's the reality. There WILL be DLC. Egosoft can't work on a huge thing like X4 and then immediately jump on to the next X5. They dont have the size for it.

Since you made up your mind already, i presented you the option to save yourself the trouble. Alternatively you can try and argue against a reality of game development - which won't change it.

In todays world there is no "expansion", "mission pack" or "map pack" anymore. It is all called DLC (for better or worse). Yes if DLC is bad then it is our right (and duty) to complain and not buy it. Refusing developers the option to expand and work on more content for the game post release "just because" is stupid however, especially for a long-living series as X and (by industry standard) ludicrously generous post-release support. Many people have brainwashed themself into thinking all DLC = junk and a mere cashgrab due to many bad examples.
However, there are many good examples for good DLC nowadays. If Egosoft can make good DLC for X4 remains to be seen, but if you don't even give them a chance... i don't see why they should care about you then?

as for the stockholm syndrome -
I don't own XR DLC, i dont even own XR, because it's disaster imo. That doesnt change the reality of game development however. As hobby gamedev/ modder i know a fair bit about it...
AP is itself a DLC for TC.
And TC is... an expansion for X3 Reunion, that likely only manifested into it's form because modders helped with it (mostly from XTM).
And without Modders Albion Prelude wouldn't have been what it is now either. Most added ships added with it where made by modders.
Yes, both can be considered DLC by todays standards, and a not neglectable part isn't even Egosofts own internal making.
[ external image ]
X-Tended TC Mod Team Veteran.
Modeller of X3AP Split Acinonyx, Split Drake, Argon Lotan, Teladi Tern. My current work:
Image

User avatar
mr.WHO
Posts: 8549
Joined: Thu, 12. Oct 06, 17:19
x4

Post by mr.WHO » Thu, 3. Aug 17, 17:18

Killjaeden wrote:
AP is itself a DLC for TC.
And TC is... an expansion for X3 Reunion, that likely only manifested into it's form because modders helped with it (mostly from XTM).
And without Modders Albion Prelude wouldn't have been what it is now either. Most added ships added with it where made by modders.
Yes, both can be considered DLC by todays standards, and a not neglectable part isn't even Egosofts own internal making.
If I remeber correctly even X3 Reunion starter as an expansion to X2, but then hey change it to stand alone game.

Sparky Sparkycorp
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 8074
Joined: Tue, 30. Mar 04, 12:28
x4

Post by Sparky Sparkycorp » Thu, 3. Aug 17, 17:52

Yeah, originally there was going to be an X2: The Return.

...a title now nicked by Elite Dangerous for their next update!

UniTrader
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Posts: 14571
Joined: Sun, 20. Nov 05, 22:45
x4

Post by UniTrader » Thu, 3. Aug 17, 18:26

And since we are at this: X2 is basically just an Extented X-T, which in return is a heavily X-Tended X-BtF :D
if not stated otherwise everything i post is licensed under WTFPL

Ich mache keine S&M-Auftragsarbeiten, aber wenn es fragen gibt wie man etwas umsetzen kann helfe ich gerne weiter ;)

I wont do Script&Mod Request work, but if there are questions how to do something i will GLaDly help ;)

birdtable
Posts: 2055
Joined: Sat, 7. Feb 04, 20:42
x4

Post by birdtable » Thu, 3. Aug 17, 18:52

Which in turn started with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY6wefbe12Q

and at approx 8:15 you will hear about the origin of unstoppable conversations so popular in Rebirth.......

Edited to be less ambiguous ... :)

User avatar
spankahontis
Posts: 3242
Joined: Tue, 2. Nov 10, 21:47
x4

Post by spankahontis » Thu, 3. Aug 17, 21:24

Why not just return to the classic Expansion Pack model?

Dlc 'fluff' and Micro-Transactions are a Cancer that need to be cut out of the PC/Console gaming industry.
You expect that cheap shit in Mobile Games, but dragging it into real games is going to anger your base into rage quitting eventually.

When Creative Assembly did it, I quit their franchise and never looked back.
I'm hoping Egosoft learn from that and maintain the traditional path of selling it's content.
I was mad like everyone else the state of Rebirth, but I persevered and glad I did, love the content and the changes. Can't wait for X4.

User avatar
mr.WHO
Posts: 8549
Joined: Thu, 12. Oct 06, 17:19
x4

Post by mr.WHO » Thu, 3. Aug 17, 21:38

As much as I hate current gaming industry DLC milking, I think that Egosoft HoL DLC was very good in both price and content/price ratio.
My only complain with HoL was that there was no HoL specific ship set - with it it would be perfect (I wouldn't mind a few $ price increase with more ships).


If X4 DLC will be like HoL DLC (new ship sets mandatory!) then I'm fine with it.

Nanook
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 27829
Joined: Thu, 15. May 03, 20:57
x4

Post by Nanook » Thu, 3. Aug 17, 23:00

spankahontis wrote:Why not just return to the classic Expansion Pack model?....
Kindly explain the differences between an "expansion pack" and "paid DLC"? The only difference I see is that one comes in a box and the other gets downloaded from the internet. :wink:
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.

User avatar
MegaJohnny
Posts: 2195
Joined: Wed, 4. Jun 08, 22:30
x4

Post by MegaJohnny » Thu, 3. Aug 17, 23:47

These days the definitions are very blurred anyway. I don't know if I would call TO or HoL "expansions" with the same gravity as Shivering Isles or Blood and Wine. But they're nothing like the naff kind of DLC that adds two guns and a t-shirt.

Skeeter
Posts: 3665
Joined: Thu, 9. Jan 03, 19:47
x3

Post by Skeeter » Fri, 4. Aug 17, 00:01

Someone asked the difference between dlc and old 90s expansion packs. Hmm dlc can be a few quid to a lot of money for not a lot of real content, expansion packs were very worth getting as they sometimes gave you a new full campaign of story or expanded the whole game in a big way.

I know what I'd choose in a second.

So dlc - fluff
Expansion - big burst of new content an almost new games worth for about half the price of the full game.
[ external image ]
7600x cpu 5.4ghz 32gb DDR5 5600mhz 6700XT 32" 1440p mon

vkerinav
Posts: 622
Joined: Sun, 11. Apr 10, 21:38
x3ap

Post by vkerinav » Fri, 4. Aug 17, 01:37

Nanook wrote:
spankahontis wrote:Why not just return to the classic Expansion Pack model?....
Kindly explain the differences between an "expansion pack" and "paid DLC"? The only difference I see is that one comes in a box and the other gets downloaded from the internet. :wink:
Hang on a second. Are you saying that X4 is going to be... <Cue iconic horror film music> DLC?

<Runs and hides>

Considering the above poorly made point(allow me to apologize for that... awful humor, no style, etc...), maybe we should go back to calling substantive additions Expansion Packs, and leave DLC for the texture mods, useless new weapons, and important bug fixes.

RAVEN.myst
Posts: 2585
Joined: Mon, 20. Jun 11, 13:16
x3tc

Post by RAVEN.myst » Fri, 4. Aug 17, 02:00

I, too, am a bit of a dinosaur in my views on expansions and DLC, although I recognise that the line can be rather blurred. I fondly remember the likes of Brood War, which transformed StarCraft into its definitive version. Admittedly, EgoSoft's DLCs, which only truly manifested in Rebirth (*), came somewhat close to my definition of an expansion pack - well, Home of Light did, at any rate. However, it's been long since I've seen the likes of, say, Yuri's Revenge or Zero Hour (yes, I'm a long-time huge fan of the Command & Conquer series) or Blood and Ice, as far as additional gameplay goes - extra campaign arcs, missions/quests, units/monsters/character classes, maps/world-map acreage, even entire factions and game mechanics... and I'm saddened by this widespread capitulation to rampant consumerism. Ultimately, though, the audiences/player-bases are to blame, by tacitly supporting the paradigm shift, by bowing to consumerism and allowing themselves to be repeatedly milked, by accepting "hire-purchase" models such as DLC, or even downright game-time leasing such as subscription-based MMOs.


(*) I'm afraid I totally disagree with "TC was a DLC for X3R". Although the same graphics engine (but with considerable changes to the control interface) was used, it was a new and, more importantly, altogether separate game, and the closest one could call it to an "expansion" is as an "expandalone" - a stand-alone expansion on the previous game-world which, by not requiring the previous game in order to run, directly doesn't fit the definition of neither an "expansion pack" NOR a "DLC". X3AP occupies a blurrier, more ambiguous space, given how it is bundled - though technically I would regard it as more of an extensive first-party mod, given how it doesn't only add ("expand") but also changes some features/aspects/elements and even removes a few (although granted, overall expanding the game experience - hence, "more ambiguous".)
Last edited by RAVEN.myst on Fri, 4. Aug 17, 02:09, edited 1 time in total.
-
Boron passenger: "You must hurry - my testicles are drying out!"
-
Born on Lave, raised on Freeport 7...
-
The Write Stuff

RAVEN.myst
Posts: 2585
Joined: Mon, 20. Jun 11, 13:16
x3tc

Post by RAVEN.myst » Fri, 4. Aug 17, 02:03

vkerinav wrote:... maybe we should go back to calling substantive additions Expansion Packs, and leave DLC for the texture mods, useless new weapons,...-
Agreed.
vkerinav wrote:-... and important bug fixes.
Well, that's actually the domain of "patches", innit? Oh wait, I believe the new, 'politically correct' term is "updates"... :P
-
Boron passenger: "You must hurry - my testicles are drying out!"
-
Born on Lave, raised on Freeport 7...
-
The Write Stuff

Post Reply

Return to “X4: Foundations”