classic flight mode?

[Alan Phipps]

I understand now. You want the mouse to act as if it were the joystick in an aeroplane - as with many flight sims. That is also how the earlier X games play with Invert Pitch off.

I don't think X Rebirth can do that, and your mouse driver cannot do that just for flight but not for everything else as well.

You can do what you would like in Rebirth using a joystick or controller thumbstick though.

Sorry for misunderstanding about exactly what you wanted.

[zanosg]

The dev reply to the OP's question is in the Q&A Index Sticky:

Q. Will we be able to control ships directly via mouse?

A. The game is designed with mouse and keyboard being the primary controls in mind.

That doesn't really answer the question really. Sorry but the answer I would like to know is just not there.

[zanosg]

What is 'classic' mouse mode? As with X3 and XR we have the behaviour that the ship turns towards the mouse cursor. There are two modes, whether you have to click for the turn or whether it's always on.

Or do you mean 'classic' like in the older X games?

Hi. Please watch this video. He explains is perfectly. Around 2 minutes into the video he starts talking about classic mouse mode. Basically with this on your mouse pointer is directly tied to your ships "crosshairs".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bcNhvp9daQ

[refuse]

But I think, that set only invert mouse for pitch would be horrible for control ships, without fix in the cursor in the midle - in the Everspace is possible tick "centered crosshair"

Another solution is two modes for controlling ships like in X3-series and possibility to switch them.

----
I tried for example couple years ago to set invert mouse via driver in Freelancer but without centerred cursor it was unplayable.

[Killjaeden]

Breaking it down technically to what it is would solve a lot of confusion.
The "classic" boresight mode (default X3:R and older) is velocity driven: The faster you move your mouse, the harder you turn (capped by the ships max turn rate limit) in the direction you moved your mouse in. Stop moving the mouse, the ships stops turning.

The default steering in X3:TC and newer titels is position driven. You position the cursor and the turnrate direction of the ship is based on relative distance of your pointer to the center position of the screen. Joysticks are similar (but they measure angle instead of relative position)


velocity driven is better for precision and accuracy (provided the ship has quick reaction/ high turnrate) and it is intuitive. Position driven is better for slow reacting ships (capitals) - because you dont have to scrape a hole through your desk to complete a 360 turn. However, to stop turning you always have to check your screen if you are in the "deadzone" - because there is no selfcentering mechanism on computer mouse like you would have on a normal joystick.

Inverted pitch can be implemented for both methods.

[zanosg]

If you have X3AP please do this. It will show you exactly what we are looking for.

1. Start a new game as a Argon Peacekeeper.
2. Go to Start >> Control >> Controls Tab
3. Look for "Invert Mouse Pitch" and change that to Yes. Get out of the settings and save the changes.
4. Now go back to your keyboard and press Shift + N
5. You will now be in classic mouse mode. Try aiming and shooting at things.

[Nick 031287]

whats wrong with using joystics, or even a full on hotas? apart from costs. they feel good to use. they feel immersive and once you mastered them they are as effective maybe better a mouse could ever do....

[refuse]

whats wrong with using mouse?

[GCU Grey Area]

whats wrong with using mouse?

Not enough axes or buttons IMO. My mouse can control 2 axes of movement & has 2 buttons + scroll wheel. In contrast my joystick (Thrustmaster T16000) can control movement on all 3 axes & has 15 buttons + trigger, hat switch & throttle. Just makes weapon switching, targeting, accessing maps, etc so much more convenient. Also find having analogue control over that 3rd axis absolutely critical (controlling roll with the keyboard isn't anywhere near as precise).

[Ezarkal]

Not enough axes or buttons IMO. My mouse can control 2 axes of movement & has 2 buttons + scroll wheel. In contrast my joystick (Thrustmaster T16000) can control movement on all 3 axes & has 15 buttons + trigger, hat switch & throttle. Just makes weapon switching, targeting, accessing maps, etc so much more convenient. Also find having analogue control over that 3rd axis absolutely critical (controlling roll with the keyboard isn't anywhere near as precise).

The 100+ buttons of the keyboard kind of helps, though!

But all trolling aside, I'm with you. Ever since I've tried X games with a joystick, I knew there was no going back to M&K. I still use them as secondary imput, especially for the management aspect of the game and the general menu browsing, but the flight and fight aspects are all joystick.

[Alan Phipps]

I think that this thread can be pretty much summed up as follows:

In X3 games you had the option to invert mouse pitch for spaceflight, in X Rebirth you don't. Some players would like it reinstated as an option in X4 as long as any other considerations (such as cursor centring, etc) make it a viable control method.

Is that close enough?

[Killjaeden]

Is that close enough?

Not according to what the OP writes. I conclude that he means the classic (technically driven by mouse velocity) controll mode from X3:R and that he would like it back. Instead of the default X3:TC and X3:AP and Rebirth controlls (technically driven by mouse position)
Because this

the "Freelancer" control scheme in X-Rebirth is unplayable for me

is what he wrote. Inverted mode seems to be secondary concern.
I second this, i too would like the option to switch between both modes just like in X3:AP - plus both with inverted toggle option.

[Alan Phipps]

I rather think that I covered that here: ".. as long as any other considerations (such as cursor centring, etc) make it a viable control method."

Anyway, let's allow the devs to digest the nature of the request and see what control options are possible and practicable within their emerging game design.

[refuse]

I don't understand why somebody ask me why I use invert mouse control, becouse joystick is better? Do you have any problem with it?

For example, I don't any problem how you play own game.
For example one man played Dark Souls 3 with bananas. Why not?
I do't ask anybody why do you preffer another method.

Invert mouse was available in X3 and is available in another games. I like it, and would like to possibility to chose it in X4.

I don't want rare things. I just want developers to be friendly to their players and put this standard option into their game.

[JoeVN09]

My understanding is that OP would like X4 to feature the same mouse control method that existed in X2, was refined to beautiful effect in X3 Reunion, and was referred to as "Classic Flight Mode" as of Terran Conflict. This mode is defined by response to the movement of the mouse, rather than its resting position.

While "Classic Flight Mode" does respond in the Y axis the same way a joystick would, i.e. pitching up when the mouse is pulled backwards, that isn't its defining feature.

And I agree with OP. X3's classic flight mode was absolute bliss; it made dogfighting a delightfully responsive experience and made the trade-off between the mobility of a fighter and the power of a corvette a very serious consideration. The mouse tracking mode of newer games just can't match up to that. I really hope Egosoft puts it in.

[zanosg]

People bringing up joystics and hotas. Please just dont. If you play with joystics and hotas you will never be as precise with your aiming as someone with mouse and "Classic Flight Mode". No matter what your opinion is Im going to tell you that its simply not possible for you to aim that good. The difference is astronomical. Lets say that it was possible for you to use joystics or hotas to browse the web, edit pictures in photoshop or just do day to day computer activities. You would go back to the mouse and ditch joystics and hotas in an instant. Why? Because its so much easier and more precise. Same thing with these space games. I havent really purchased any latest games (except Elite (and I wish I never did)) due to games not having classic flight mode.

I hope the Devs listen to us. If you are one of them and still dont get what we are talking about please PM me and I will gladly explain and provide videos and details as I really want to play this game.

[X2-Illuminatus]

Those who wish to play X4 with mouse and keyboard can sit back and relax, as it has been mentioned a couple of times already that the game interface will be designed with these two input devices in mind. Telling people that their opinions and experiences are not valid, however, will hardly change anything. Besides people have been playing space games with joysticks for decades already, so there must be something to it.

[Morkonan]

Those who wish to play X4 with mouse and keyboard can sit back and relax, as it has been mentioned a couple of times already that the game interface will be designed with these two input devices in mind. Telling people that their opinions and experiences are not valid, however, will hardly change anything. Besides people have been playing space games with joysticks for decades already, so there must be something to it.

I actually prefer mouse&keyboard for games like X3TC/AP. That's simply because so many of my game activities involve things that aren't involved in piloting the ship. Building stations, setting up logistics, checking my "mail" and, in general, utilizing the mouse&keyboard portions of the UI occupy a great deal of my time. I don't mind that at all.

But, in a game like a flight sim, where much more activity and energy is expended in "flying" the craft, I'd be fine with a joystick and may actually prefer it.

If I had half-a-room full of monitors and custom cabinets and switches/dials to simulate the bridge of a spaceship, with multiple functioning stations, lovingly supported by the game engine, then I'd certainly fly only with a joystick and slide over to another console to use a mouse&keyboard to check my mail and issue orders to may assets.

[zanosg]

Those who wish to play X4 with mouse and keyboard can sit back and relax, as it has been mentioned a couple of times already that the game interface will be designed with these two input devices in mind. Telling people that their opinions and experiences are not valid, however, will hardly change anything. Besides people have been playing space games with joysticks for decades already, so there must be something to it.

Honestly, I dont care what anyone thinks. You may prefer joystick or whatever and more power to you but I know what works for me and in my opinion nothing can beat it. My reply was more to people who seem to think that we can all just go to joystick and hotas and with enough of their voices Devs might sway their way when people like me will never go to either one of those. For me a game is not playable at all with joystick or hotas.

The question isnt whether the game will be designed to work with Keyboard and mouse or not. They question is if it will have specific mouse feature.

[refuse]

the question is, if x4 will be controlled by the mouse and keyboard by standard way like other games and if will be possible to change invert pitch for mouse (invert-y)