Livestream 2: highways

[gbjbaanb]

Interesting Bernd said that they had "overdone it" on XR with highways.... yup, quite true. Also interesting that they are putting more "X3" style sectors in without highways and only putting highways in the core sectors. Excellent.

Now, whilst I applaud this, it did raise a question in my mind:

If sector travel is good enough for those sectors without highways... why do we need highways at all? If highways are so useful, are sectors without them going to suck for navigation?

I don't mind "virtual highways" where the AI directs its ships to help the navigation algorithms, in which case you can do away with the highways as highways completely, and let the ships travel along those routes just like any other non-highway sector.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

I expect it will be a matter of speed and safety. The core sector(s) of a system, such as around shipyards, probably have highways and the highways probably help ships get around faster and safer. Then in the bordering sectors, there are probably fewer with increased travel time and risk, and potentially the need to look for zones.

[j.harshaw]

That's the idea, yes, although, with present setup, there are also lots of stations away from the highway network even in those core systems.

[spankahontis]

Core Systems without Highways is like a Town/City without Roads.

I see highways as Empires/civilization in general establishing their mark on that area. That they control that place, that it's a hub for trade and civilization.


Border Systems should be every bit 'Wild West', very little highways, nothing but open space to explore and to exploit the resource rich parts to make your wealth through the risk of encountering those Native American's that don't appreciate you entering their territory and taking their resources.
By my analogy of Indians, I mean Xenon, Pirates and Kha'ak.
You take risk in the Border regions in order to bring about reward.

[Fedora01]

This might be a bit off topic, but would it be available to the player to eventually be able to build their own highways? obviously it'd be at great costs but would be great when developing your own sector(s).

[Crimsonraziel]

This might be a bit off topic, but would it be available to the player to eventually be able to build their own highways? obviously it'd be at great costs but would be great when developing your own sector(s).

I think this was already asked somewhere and the answer was no.

[adeine]

Are there any plans to make highways look less like magic space noodles?

I understand the original design from X3AP is impractical, but perhaps something inbetween like Freelancer did with its trade lanes. Basically something that looks more like a functional, technology powered highway and less like a solid tube of clouds twirling through space with nothing connecting it.

[Sandalpocalypse]

Home of Light had more in the way of 'highway boosters' and highway-support stations. And there were similar structures in the live streams. I don't think it will be straight shots like FL but indications seem to be much less tubes and much less bendiness.

[mr.WHO]

My only concern now is how the Capship will fly between sectors without JD?
Boosters are good for zone-to-zone, but might not be good sector-to-sector.

[Caldazar]

That was answered in the stream. Capships will use highways and jumpgates, just like small ships.

[ADMNtek]

if cold star is any indication the lack of high ways is going to suck finding anything is going to be such a chore.

[Nanook]

Cold Star actually encouraged exploration and finding things. If you're in a highway, chances are you'll simply fly by things without even noticing them. IMO, highways are an impediment to 'finding anything'.

[Morkonan]

I never understood the concept behind "highways in space" to begin with, outside of the already existing "gate" features. It just doesn't make any sense.

I do, however, understand that certain features may be chosen not based on "story/setting" ideas, but for pure mechanical design convenience. Highways seem to possibly be one of the things introduced to keep each individual ship from having to constantly calculate pathing issues. So, it's likely all this was just a "highways vs ships-mating-with-stations-and-each-other" problem decision to begin with and everything else is just a strange attempt to justify their existence.

That sort of rabbit-hole is something I'd rather not see, to be honest. They're there, means that "they're there" and going farther trying to justify them is a waste of effort.

[AleksMain]

I never understood the concept behind "highways in space" to begin with, outside of the already existing "gate" features. It just doesn't make any sense...

I saw such system already. And even played such game, made by Microsoft (it is old). Here is description of such "highways" there:

Within a system, spacecraft can travel in the trade lanes—a series of gates that connect to form a "space highway"—to quickly reach places of interest, such as planets, space stations, and mining operations

Each gate (like some boost pad on the racing track for Swoop Bike in the "Star Wars:Knights of the Old Republic") accelerate ship, so it can move faster, than in common space.

[ishmaeltheforsaken]

I never understood the concept behind "highways in space" to begin with, outside of the already existing "gate" features. It just doesn't make any sense...

I saw such system already. And even played such game, made by Microsoft (it is old). Here is description of such "highways" there:

Within a system, spacecraft can travel in the trade lanes—a series of gates that connect to form a "space highway"—to quickly reach places of interest, such as planets, space stations, and mining operations

Each gate (like some boost pad on the racing track for Swoop Bike in the "Star Wars:Knights of the Old Republic") accelerate ship, so it can move faster, than in common space.

Sure, but space is almost a vacuum, so we have a context in which Newton's first law applies almost perfectly. There's no reality-based need for a highway system for a ship to maintain a given velocity. It's purely a gameplay conceit, one that's needed because games generally don't use Newtonian flight models (X games certainly never have).

[adeine]

Home of Light had more in the way of 'highway boosters' and highway-support stations. And there were similar structures in the live streams. I don't think it will be straight shots like FL but indications seem to be much less tubes and much less bendiness.

I think the biggest issue is the opacity of the 'tube', looking at it from the outside. Even without better 'infrastructure' supporting the highway, if it was a subtle shader effect (like a 'spacetime distortion' or some such) instead of a solid texture it'd be significantly less off putting. Better for managing graphical pop-in too.

Sure, but space is almost a vacuum, so we have a context in which Newton's first law applies almost perfectly. There's no reality-based need for a highway system for a ship to maintain a given velocity. It's purely a gameplay conceit, one that's needed because games generally don't use Newtonian flight models (X games certainly never have).

You can kind of handwave an explanation that highway/trade lane systems provide 1) a stretch free from any micro debris that might be fatal on such high speeds, and 2) provide superior and safer acceleration and more importantly, deceleration for ships flying through. In space, braking sucks!

[RainerPrem]

Sure, but space is almost a vacuum, so we have a context in which Newton's first law applies almost perfectly. There's no reality-based need for a highway system for a ship to maintain a given velocity. It's purely a gameplay conceit, one that's needed because games generally don't use Newtonian flight models (X games certainly never have).

Hi,

"almost vacuum" can be lethal when flying at high speed. The "Passengers" movie was rather realistic in that regard. Highways are very reasonable in my opinion.

cu
Rainer

[boogieman335]

As a long time X player I eagerly awaited the release of X rebirth. I ordered and bought it early .Played with it until I finally got a more or less functioning game out of that mess and still one thing put me off. High ways. If I wanted to go play in the highway I would get in the car. I f I wanted to drive in traffic I would go to town in said car. The simple truth is that for me I buy space fight games to well, fly in space. Not play in traffic. FSX has been out for years and is almost as broken as X rebirth and it has all kinds of industry surrounding it. People sell new planes,hardware consoles,etc for that game.Why? Because its about something that most people dont'do on a daily basis but always wanted to. The space game I would like to see has an immersive cockpit ,turrets you can get into and fire. Exploration that is not the same station over and over or the same boring orange rock pit. I already got that with Elite Dangerous,without a high way in sight.I am encouraged by what I saw in the clips of the new game but the highways for me a least are a game breaker. If you only used it like a warp tunnel to get from sector to sector that's kinda cool but the green snakey things starching through space are bogus and we all know it. No matter what kind of shakey fantasy you invent to justify them.

[Morkonan]

An honest question for informed people, since I never played XR:

Are "highways" an attempt to fix the problems that X3TC/AP had with ship collisions, especially when the player entered sectors with really high traffic counts?

For instance, if you really focused on a region of the map in X3TC and built up the economy, the result could be a huge number of AI merchants scrambling to trade the new cornucopia of opportunities available. It was a pretty rewarding experience for the player, too, to see hundreds of thankful AI merchants having a field day in a region of space that was, formerly, a dead-trade region with a poor economy.

But, write off actually traveling to that sector and seeing all those ships trading for yourself, from the view of your own ship. If you zoned in, you'd better hope none of your own ships were in the sector, else the number of reports of ships colliding and getting destroyed would overwhelm your message feed... Well, sort of, in the most extreme cases. I didn't have that problem very often and only really encountered it with small, fast, craft, like M5 scouts smashing into stations when I entered the sector. (I developed a habit of checking crowded sectors, first, and then ordering my ships in them to "safe" areas, away from large collision objects, before entering.)

So, honestly, does it appear that the highway system is just a way to "fix" this issue?

Or, is it truly some sort of sci-fi flavor addition that someone thinks makes things "coolerer" and that adds some sort of neat kind of gameplay that couldn't be added any other way?


I'm slow, must be suffering from some brain deficiency, 'cause I just can't grok the concept and utilization of "space highways" in the examples and descriptions I've read. A "gate" system seems so much better, both in utility and lore, than "highways." So, the only thing I can think makes sense is that they're there to help avoid the problem experienced in previous titles with collisions in high-traffic areas. Maybe I'm completely wrong and, if that's the case, then I want my interpretation to be made "more right."

[Nanook]

...So, the only thing I can think makes sense is that they're there to help avoid the problem experienced in previous titles with collisions in high-traffic areas...

That's pretty much correct. However, they were all made moot when Egosoft decided to do away with collision damage and ships just bounced off of each other. The only other benefit, from my standpoint, is they act like boosters, propelling ships from one zone to another. So they could be done away with completely by giving all ships boost capability or by reintroducing the transorbital accelerators we had in TC/AP, especially if collision damage is turned off near them.