Suggestion thread: Teleportation, ejection and escape pods.

[Axeface]

Firstly i'de like to explain why i'm bringing this up.
I think that reloading and the 'game over' screen is the bane of gaming, it's a feature that I think really needs to be addressed by developers to bring believability and continuity to games. Some devs have attempted to do this to varying success. For example, I cant understate how amazing I thought it was the first time I 'died' in Far Cry 3, I thought I was about to be presented with a 'game over' screen - but my buddy showed up, looked down at me and dragged me away from the fighting. Strategy games where the player isnt one specific avatar use ironman mode which I also enjoy.



I understand that in X4 we have the teleporter, and this is a good solution to the problem, but I dont think it should be the only solution because it raises 2 issues.

1. Believability of npc's and their own self interest.
2. What do we do before we have the teleporter researched? Or if we are outside it's range?



I really think that the obvious solutions are ejection, escape pods and rescue.

So my suggestions:-

1. Please add the ability to bail from ships, this can be done just like in x3. Press a button and you are outside your ship. By adding some blur and a sound it can be made believable without needing to add ejection animation etc etc (or even use short range teleport, more on that further down).

2. Please add escape pods to capital ships. Our npc's, especially as they might (should) be able to improve their abilities shouldnt just be seen a a disposable resource. Allowing them to escape from a doomed ships will give them for believability, and make them seem more precious, as they should be - they are living beings.

3. Add the ability to request rescue from nearby friendly npc ships, or automatic 'emergency services' (literally ambulances). They fly to your position and zap you inside. In order for this to make sense without adding a lot of work for artists to animate things, I think that short range teleportation tech should be commonplace technology (as it was in other games) and leave the long range teleportation to the player research.

4. Allow the player to have dedicated search and rescue ships that you can 'program' to automatically sweep battlefields and pick up deserted crew.

5. Make destroying escape pods and stranded characters illegal throughout the universe. This will prevent the reload screen further, and give us the maximum possibility to save stranded crew. Obviously, especially nasty enemies wont adere to this law (pirates/xenon/khaak and probably Split ).

6. Stranded crew/player should have a limited timeframe to be rescued (oxygen reserves) to prevent the universe being clogged up with stranded npc's.


These things combined will add both believability and gameplay to the game, and give the player alternatives to the dreaded reload screen before and after they develop teleportation tech, and after they have researched it they will still allow for the rescue of crew. It will also be pretty amazing to eject from your ship and see a huge battle taking place, only to be saved by a friendly npc ship.

[Nanook]

The player not having the 'ability' to actually die ingame decreases the believability, IMO. It also removes a lot of the tension when the player is in a dangerous position if the player knows they can't die. Just losing assets doesn't have the same fear factor. 'Death' in games like these adds to the excitement, IMO, and is a necessary part of the experience.

[Axeface]

The player not having the 'ability' to actually die ingame decreases the believability, IMO. It also removes a lot of the tension when the player is in a dangerous position if the player knows they can't die. Just losing assets doesn't have the same fear factor. 'Death' in games like these adds to the excitement, IMO, and is a necessary part of the experience.

I dont agree because rather than reloading, if you eject or teleport you actually lose the ship. Losing ships is something that should be part of the experience too, but we dont see much of that, especially without some kind of ironman mode too (unless you have crazy self control, most dont). Also, my suggestions wouldnt totally remove dying, they would merely give the player abilities to avoid it. I expect that egosoft are planning to use teleportation to escape doomed ships, so my suggestions only add options to that.

[Nanook]

As I stated, losing the ship, i.e. 'asset', is not really that big of a deal in these games. Typically, the player has multiple ships and plenty of cash to replace them unless at the very start of the game. And while Rebirth didn't give the player the ability to bail out, due to the one-ship design, in past X games I bailed out plenty of times, or escaped my capital ship demise by 'ejecting' in my fighter. This is nothing new. But 'death' should still be an integral part, forcing the player to make hard decisions, rather than saying "well, if I lose a ship, no big deal".

Sorry, but I don't have a problem with the 'game over' screen if I screw up.

[Kitty]

I think you both are right.
Having the possibility to bail ship, or abandon it, is a good experience. Don't say "very early in the game" for explaining that the lost is neglictable. Not every players play the game days, weeks, and then weeks again. (Game starts are much fun.) More, escaping death is a really strong experience.
BUT this is a strong experience only if death is possible. So, Game Over screen is also a mandatory feature. I didn't understand OP as requesting for its suppression, but asking for a reasonnable way to avoid it by intelligence or survival instinct.

In X3 we're not that far from such a feature. I ejected more than once to be rescued by another of my ships, so I feel like it is possible.

I could add a feature to the list:
- when ejecting near a pirate, he may "rescue" you and sell you as slave (game over?) or ask for money in exchange (alot).
You want to experience a lose? Let's do it fully.

PS: good ideas but definitely not in my priority list.

[adeine]

I think you both are right.
Having the possibility to bail ship, or abandon it, is a good experience. Don't say "very early in the game" for explaining that the lost is neglectable. Not every players play the game days, weeks, and then weeks again. (Game starts are much fun.) More, escaping death is a really strong experience.
BUT this is a strong experience only if death is possible. So, Game Over screen is also a mandatory feature. I didn't understand OP as requesting for its suppression, but asking for a reasonable way to avoid it by intelligence or survival instinct.

In X3 we're not that far from such a feature. I ejected more than once to be rescued by another of my ships, so I feel like it is possible.

I could add a feature to the list:
- when ejecting near a pirate, he may "rescue" you and sell you as slave (game over?) or ask for money in exchange (a lot).
You want to experience a lose? Let's do it fully.

This is exactly why bailing/escape pods should be a thing in the game.

Vanilla X3 didn't exactly do a lot with it, but some mods expanded on the idea, allowing you to legitimately rescue bailed pilots and drop them off on stations for small reputation gains, etc.

I think the right approach would be to make shooting bailed pilots or selling them off a MAJOR reputation hit (ideally to some extent, even with other factions) and account for this in the AI - bailing is actually an option when you're up against someone who respects a 'surrender', as the 'civilised' races of the X Commonwealth would.

It would also make for a great distinction with say, pirates, who may be interested on "rescuing" you for nefarious purposes, or collect a bounty on your head - imagine bailing and having to pay a bribe for them to let you go or face the consequences.

But more importantly, fighting outright hostile foes like Xenon or Kha'ak just feels more real/scary when you know that unlike the above surrender is not an option, they won't care if you bail and shoot you anyway.

It'd go a long way to making your enemies feel less 'samey' (red dot on radar, must shoot).

[rhohltjr]

The X Universe is supposed to be dynamic where every nut and bolt (missing) effects the economy in some way. That being said please no more X Rebirth economies where the pirates/reivers didn't have any factories, or big freighters or any manufacturing base yet they turned out clouds of fighters. Didn't understand that ...made X Rebirth an arcade game instead of a space sim.

[mr.WHO]

Question:
Will "teleportation" be somehow limited only to "player body" or will we be able to teleport "other NPCs"? E.g teleport captains for my ships?

[sd_jasper]

The more I think of how teleportation (as it has been described) works in X4, the more I think that it might feel a bit more like "telepresence" instead of actually moving from ship to ship.

I don't know if that is what the game will imply or not, but I think it might seem more like taking remote control over a robot shell that then pilots the ship or whatever.[/i]

[PabloRSA]

I see that no one has brought up EVE Online yet..

Ship blows up you are left in the escape pod, the escape pod can be blown up too and you lose your clone which is end of game screen until you wake in another clone.
Could the HQ provide the unique clone facility, allowing the "Teleport".

Now you say that there is no fear, well yes there will be no fear, you have a problem, just reload... Still no fear.
If you lose your ship yes its finacial loss, but dont forget that X4 is now experimenting with upgrades and mods to ships.
So that ship you lose could be very advance and have to start again at the mods which i assume will take a while to build/fit.


So you could do escape pods and NPCS wont kill the pod.

If you lose a ship out of reach for your "teleport" range then you need to fly to another ship you own manually at a very slow speed (no seta) or back to HQ range.

Could go fruther and command a ship come to rescue the clone if out of range, if your in xenon space thats a dangerous risk the ship will be desroyed.

[gbjbaanb]

The more I think of how teleportation (as it has been described) works in X4, the more I think that it might feel a bit more like "telepresence" instead of actually moving from ship to ship.

I don't know if that is what the game will imply or not, but I think it might seem more like taking remote control over a robot shell that then pilots the ship or whatever.[/i]

I do hope so, teleport over sectors itself seems a bit daft, but subspace comms to remotely pilot a ship, that's a good 'feel' for gameplay and immersion.

[Morkonan]

Teleporter - Teleporters are stoopid, get rid of them

Pilot Ejection - That's perfect for fighters and some other small ships

Escape Pod - Should be implemented for some medium and all large ships

[zanzal]

The OP's idea is very good. Save and load becomes a crutch to avoid loss and setback in general games and I really hated that in X3. I like the idea that you can teleport into a fight to try and save the ship but end up losing and emergency teleport back to another ship. This means you can continue having lost that asset, to get revenge, or try and salvage what's left without reloading.. A game over screen just means you reload. Eliminating the need to save and reload and focus on having fun is what a game should be about.

[Nanook]

The OP's idea is very good. Save and load becomes a crutch to avoid loss and setback ....

It was also a tool that allowed the player to experiment with different tactics and strategies. I'd hate not having that ability in an X game.

[Axeface]

The OP's idea is very good. Save and load becomes a crutch to avoid loss and setback ....

It was also a tool that allowed the player to experiment with different tactics and strategies. I'd hate not having that ability in an X game.

And as has been pointed out, I am not advocating for the removal of those features Just alternatives.

[Nanook]

The OP's idea is very good. Save and load becomes a crutch to avoid loss and setback ....

It was also a tool that allowed the player to experiment with different tactics and strategies. I'd hate not having that ability in an X game.

And as has been pointed out, I am not advocating for the removal of those features Just alternatives.

And I was replying to zanzal in this case, not you.

[Morkonan]

"Teleportation" is a terrible idea, especially in any case where such a mechanic can allow the player to escape the consequences of either their own mistakes or the natural dangers that prowl the galaxy.

It's dumb.

It's one of the worst ideas I've ever heard of in a game that could even come close to an "X" game.

It's the sort of thing that a non-game-designer would put into a game, pat themselves on the back for having thunked it up, then be mystified when it turns into a thematic game-breaking farce that firmly seats the player at their gaming desk, finger hovering over the "I WIN, TELEPORT" button instead of inside the confines of a cockpit, flying in deep-space, trying to escape "horrible_space_beast_098."

To me, the only reason anyone would think this is a "good idea" when designing a game like this would be that they are relying on it as a work-around for some other problem that would take more thunking and work in order to solve.

Time to stack up a bunch of ships within teleport range so I can have the convenience of not having to save-scum difficult encounters. Amiright? Who should really have to worry when they're taking on a Q and risk everything they've done since the last save because they haven't been able to get to a dock that sells Insurance? Whew! Glad I now have the "Automagically Trivialize Most Encounters Button!"

[caleb]

There is no real solution, because there is no real problem. People will just play differently, and find what works for them.

Some people will not do save-scumming, because they can live with the losses of a bad trade or decisions. Others will abuse that save/load button.

Some people would pile up ships with teleport to avoid dying, others may not because they like the risk.

Some people will not buy a station unless they have 30 Million left over, others will buy that station as soon as humanly possible, and scrape through the first hours barely getting by.

So there is no one-solution fits all. So we should have the option on game start to set the "death" penalty. Like any other setting.

Personally, I would love to have some kind of escapepod mechanic. I admit I'm not the hottest pilot out there, and while I know some of you can take down an M0 in an M5, that's not me. So the ability to escape death, and just have a credit penalty (ship loss) would be fine for me.

So I think it's all about having options. We are all different after all.

[surferx]

The player not having the 'ability' to actually die ingame decreases the believability, IMO. It also removes a lot of the tension when the player is in a dangerous position if the player knows they can't die. Just losing assets doesn't have the same fear factor. 'Death' in games like these adds to the excitement, IMO, and is a necessary part of the experience.

[Edited to fix quote]
Exactly. If anything would be the "bane of gaming" it would be not having the *option* to learn, reload, strategize and continue. If you want to play DID, or loss of ship you have that option too without it being forced on you.
Never did understand some players wanting to impose their playing styles on all.

[Morkonan]

...So I think it's all about having options. We are all different after all.

I agree. In fact, I have no problem at all with "save-scumming", for instance. I don't even have a problem with it to overcome certain game mechanics, like reloading in order to get a "better roll" on some randomized game element.

But, that's a mechanic that's outside of the "game." If I have a big monitor and can see distant ships more clearly, is that a cheat?

But, in X3TC, one of the mechanics was based around the player's ability to save/reload the game. If you bought "Insurance", then you could save anywhere. If you didn't, you could only save at a dock. So, there was a cost associated with saving the game for convenience and a risk if you didn't purposefully attempt to gain a specific resource. No problem, it worked, no biggie.

My issues with it aren't specific to just a player's immortality. It's just... a dumb thing to have in the game. So, having this technology has what impact, for instance? Is it "magic" and only the player has access to it? It doesn't appear so. Is it some "ancient tech" that has to be researched? OK, I guess... But, then what? If I research it, why can't I just teleport GIANT EXPLODEY MISSILES all over the place instead of having to send a ship somewhere to actually fire them?

What purpose does it serve? Jump from ship to ship? Then, distance has little meaning in a game that draws on "distance" as part of its foundations? (Getting things from place to place, patrols, stations in specific areas, overall theme of "this is a big palette you're painting your gameplay experience upon.")

It just doesn't "fit" very well. It's the sort of "fast-travel" mechanic in some roleplaying games, but actually added as a "thing" in the game, itself.

"Ah, I see you fast-traveled here." said NoNPCinSkyrim, ever. The "illusion" of "big spaces" needs to be maintained for all the development work put into "big spaces" to actually pay off. I don't mean it has to actually mean the player has to "walk" everywhere, since walking simulations are their own genre. BUT, the illusion of big spaces is part of the setting/theme and it shouldn't be watered down too much, else the effect is lost.

Jumpgates are fine, since you have to actually get to either get to one in order to use it or you have to have the e-cells to "teleport" to one and jumpgates are always "static", meaning they won't always offer you a safe arrival or advantages.

If there is "teleporting" in the game, it absolutely must come with a "cost" and it must have disadvantages associated with it that other means of travel do not have. If it's "all powerful" in what it does, it'll have the same effect as being awarded a +10 Holy Vorpal Sword of Doom as a level 1 character, trivializing a lot of game elements that are ultimately necessary for a good gaming experience.

Just my two coppers. Egosoft may do it wonderfully and it'll be the equivalent of "Beer and Pizza" for every gamer that experiences it... I still think it's stupid, though.