2nd hand ships to buy and trade in like a ship car lot?

This forum is the ideal place for all discussion relating to X4. You will also find additional information from developers here.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

Post Reply
Skeeter
Posts: 3665
Joined: Thu, 9. Jan 03, 19:47
x3

2nd hand ships to buy and trade in like a ship car lot?

Post by Skeeter » Wed, 4. Oct 17, 10:09

Lets say u want a new ship but dont have the credits, how about a 2nd hand ship dealer in x4 where you can buy damaged ships for half the cost of new, so u can have ur new shiny ship to have fun with but its a fix er upper.

Good idea or not?

Kinda like stealing a damaged ship but without the risk and its legal.
[ external image ]
7600x cpu 5.4ghz 32gb DDR5 5600mhz 6700XT 32" 1440p mon

ZaphodBeeblebrox
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon, 10. Apr 06, 20:35
x4

Post by ZaphodBeeblebrox » Wed, 4. Oct 17, 10:47

Will this lead to a new NPC, the second-hand ship dealer.

Will he have a London accent?

Arfur Dailly a little dodgy maybe, but he ain't all bad.

'ere mate, you fancy this Nova, only one careful lady driver.

Only 3 gazillion miles on the clock.
It was a woman who drove me to drink... you know I never went back and thanked her.

Don't try to outweird me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal.

RainerPrem
Posts: 3563
Joined: Wed, 18. Jan 06, 07:39
x4

Post by RainerPrem » Wed, 4. Oct 17, 12:22

ZaphodBeeblebrox wrote:Will this lead to a new NPC, the second-hand ship dealer.

Will he have a London accent?

Arfur Dailly a little dodgy maybe, but he ain't all bad.

'ere mate, you fancy this Nova, only one careful lady driver.

Only 3 gazillion miles on the clock.
Hi,

it's MUCH more reasonable than people selling the ship they are travelling in and then try to make it to the next station in a spacesuit...

cu
Rainer

Falcrack
Posts: 4929
Joined: Wed, 29. Jul 09, 00:46
x4

Post by Falcrack » Wed, 4. Oct 17, 13:15

Second hand ships that can be bought for less credits? That would be fine by me. Would be nice perhaps to have a place where I could buy ships which are ready to go without having to wait for their construction. I would want them to cost something in terms of credits and resources to repair, however.

RAVEN.myst
Posts: 2585
Joined: Mon, 20. Jun 11, 13:16
x3tc

Re: 2nd hand ships to buy and trade in like a ship car lot?

Post by RAVEN.myst » Wed, 4. Oct 17, 13:38

Skeeter wrote:Lets say u want a new ship but dont have the credits, how about a 2nd hand ship dealer in x4 where you can buy damaged ships for half the cost of new, so u can have ur new shiny ship to have fun with but its a fix er upper.

Good idea or not?

Kinda like stealing a damaged ship but without the risk and its legal.
How about shipyards stocking such second-hand ships - they could include ships that the player captures/boards, and this second-hand lot could have a maximum "stock level", so players can't sell off silly numbers of captured ships (as can be done now.) Ships could be randomly added and removed (preferably by being sold/bought from NPC factions' fleets, if possible), so that the "menu" keeps changing, and so that over time the buying capacity of the lot "regenerates" (ie. preventing an absolute saturation point, so the player can keep occasionally boarding and selling ships.)

The player would have only the ships in stock to choose from, and they could be offered in different conditions, which would affect the price (although then engineers being able to fix a ship for free needs to be curbed.)
-
Boron passenger: "You must hurry - my testicles are drying out!"
-
Born on Lave, raised on Freeport 7...
-
The Write Stuff

User avatar
JoeVN09
Posts: 917
Joined: Sat, 8. Sep 07, 22:38
x4

Post by JoeVN09 » Wed, 4. Oct 17, 14:50

A second-hand dealer is a nice idea, but there are a couple of considerations. Firstly, despite the minor contrivance that used ship sellers in X3 hopped out into space, the fact that they weren't all centralised in a few places encouraged exploration of the universe, an important part of any X playthrough.

Secondly, making it too easy to access higher-level ships breaks a pretty important feedback loop of the early and mid game: start off small; make meagre trades, take low-paying missions or chase small prizes; upgrade with earnings; take slightly better trades, missions or prizes; repeat. That sense of progression is part of what makes the game "fun", and it's common to many celebrated sandboxes.

If you put all the used ship deals in one place, some of them are going to be too good to pass up and fast-track you through the game. Maybe that's what you want, but IMHO access to such a powerful resource needs to be gated by something else, possibly race reputation, to keep it balanced.
Last edited by JoeVN09 on Wed, 4. Oct 17, 15:14, edited 1 time in total.
~ Experienced X3 veteran. Dangerously incompetent X4 novice. ~

Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 30373
Joined: Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:21
x4

Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 4. Oct 17, 15:05

Now if ships had an economic lifetime ... ie as the ship ages, the repairs get progressively more expensive for the same amount of damage repair.

Would you really believe the age of any ship to be that declared by the secondhand ship dealer? Could you perhaps be being sold a credits-sink of an old banger instead of that exciting and affordable new business prospect?
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

gbjbaanb
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat, 25. Dec 10, 23:07
x3tc

Post by gbjbaanb » Wed, 4. Oct 17, 15:17

Falcrack wrote:Second hand ships that can be bought for less credits? That would be fine by me. Would be nice perhaps to have a place where I could buy ships which are ready to go without having to wait for their construction. I would want them to cost something in terms of credits and resources to repair, however.
surely makes sense in a universe with a functioning economy - when you sell a ship, where does it go? If everyone can sell ships, then it suggests they're not all broken down to parts and waiting for someone to come along and buy one where the parts are all put back together again.

so, yes I think such a trader would be essential for a proper economy where resources don;t magic out of nowhere.

RAVEN.myst
Posts: 2585
Joined: Mon, 20. Jun 11, 13:16
x3tc

Post by RAVEN.myst » Wed, 4. Oct 17, 17:20

Alan Phipps wrote:Now if ships had an economic lifetime ... ie as the ship ages, the repairs get progressively more expensive for the same amount of damage repair.

Would you really believe the age of any ship to be that declared by the secondhand ship dealer? Could you perhaps be being sold a credits-sink of an old banger instead of that exciting and affordable new business prospect?
Nice :) And then we can climb into our EVA suits to sit there with the "repair" laser (NO SETA! hehehe) turning back the odometer before selling off a ship :D
-
Boron passenger: "You must hurry - my testicles are drying out!"
-
Born on Lave, raised on Freeport 7...
-
The Write Stuff

ZaphodBeeblebrox
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon, 10. Apr 06, 20:35
x4

Post by ZaphodBeeblebrox » Wed, 4. Oct 17, 20:12

So for me, the next question is... can the player set up his own second-hand
dealership.

So one of the the station components is a "dodgy space ship showroom"

We hire ourselves a Teladi to front the business and a few Split technicians to hammer out the dents and mop up the blood from the last battle.

We obviously need to have several air-fresheners to put in to hide the heinous smells of vomit, pXXs and sXXt left by the dying and dismembered.

But all in all, I have a good feeling about this!
It was a woman who drove me to drink... you know I never went back and thanked her.

Don't try to outweird me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal.

RAVEN.myst
Posts: 2585
Joined: Mon, 20. Jun 11, 13:16
x3tc

Post by RAVEN.myst » Wed, 4. Oct 17, 20:53

:D
ZaphodBeeblebrox wrote:We obviously need to have several air-fresheners to put in to hide the heinous smells of vomit, pXXs and sXXt left by the dying and dismembered.
Do the old real estate trick: just keep a pot of coffee permanently going on the percolator in the showroom :) (But real coffee, none of that soja-husk substitute crap they use in the Paranid blends...)
-
Boron passenger: "You must hurry - my testicles are drying out!"
-
Born on Lave, raised on Freeport 7...
-
The Write Stuff

RodentofDoom
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat, 27. Feb 16, 09:37
x4

Post by RodentofDoom » Sun, 8. Oct 17, 16:41

if shipyards only build, repair and sell ships

then a 2nd hand ship dealer would make sense for somewhere that bought ships

as it stands if shipyards retain the functionality they have in previous titles, then there is no need for it as shipyards already buy ships

shipyards would also be selling the latest, newest shiniest models of ship
i doubt very much that any effort will be put into importing obsolete ships from previous games just to validate the need/presence of a 2nd hand ship trader, even though that would massively improve the feeling of immersion & aliveness in the universe

User avatar
Morkonan
Posts: 10113
Joined: Sun, 25. Sep 11, 04:33
x3tc

Post by Morkonan » Sun, 8. Oct 17, 23:03

I like the idea of a "used ship dealer," but not one that can be easily exploited by the player. Acquiring new and better ships is part of primary gameplay, so that can't be undercut.

I always thought the random_npc_selling_his_own_ship_while_in_deep_space was always silly... How many poor souls did I watch eek their way to the nearest station after I bought their ship? (Scanning it first, of course.)

How many of them ended up as paint on some random ship's hull?

In X3TC, I liked the mechanic of an NPC selling a "used ship" from a station. Typically overpriced, they were still handy points-of-sale.

That particular game element is something I'd to see expanded in X4.

For instance, ships bought in space got "converted" to a player-owned ship, losing all weapons, etc, and customizations. There were lots of angry posts from new players about that. :) IIRC, it worked the same for NPC ships purchased at stations, but I can't recall atm.

So, ditch the "guy selling ship while piloting it" and expand upon the "station npc selling used ship" idea.

Such ships may have unique combinations of upgrades, keeping the player on their toes, looking for a tasty morsel to buy through an NPC. (Randomized ship configurations for these opportunities.)

But, with every possible reward, there's a risk, right? Why make it just a boring purchase/receipt possibility?

Such ships might, with a very small chance, have a unique mission associated with them. Or, they could have something hidden away in them that the NPC overlooked or didn't know about.

A player could buy a used ship and, once received, could find an old jump drive the NPC overlooked. (The equivalent of buying a used couch and finding money in it that fell beneath the cushions.)

Or, the engine might explode as soon as the ship leaves the dock, requiring extensive repairs. (Buyer beware! Never think a Taledi is giving you a "deal." The Taledi always profitssss.)

Or, maybe the ship is haunted? That would only be a very, very, rare thing that can only happen once during gameplay. Maybe an "AI" ghost that leads the player to some further reward or short "quest." That sort of thing would be an "Easter Egg" that players would probably chase after during play and would be delightfully rewarded with a completely random, generated when the mission is accepted, ship of medium or large size. Players who successfully found and completed such a mission would likely end up posting their "reward" for bragging rights. Since a free medium/large ship complete with randomized weapon loadouts and tunings would be a good reward, no matter what it was, every player would see it as a good reward, no matter what they got.

In other words - Use the "used ship for sale" mechanic to introduce even more spice, more excitement, more interest in sandbox play. Every appearance of one of these Used Ship Dealers at a station would cause the player's heart-rate to go up a couple of beats, if only for just a few minutes while they deliberated whether not to buy it. They could be buying a "lemon" or a "peach" and they won't know until they spend the credits on it.

RAVEN.myst
Posts: 2585
Joined: Mon, 20. Jun 11, 13:16
x3tc

Post by RAVEN.myst » Mon, 9. Oct 17, 02:51

Morkonan wrote:So, ditch the "guy selling ship while piloting it" and expand upon the "station npc selling used ship" idea.

Such ships may have unique combinations of upgrades, keeping the player on their toes, looking for a tasty morsel to buy through an NPC. (Randomized ship configurations for these opportunities.)

But, with every possible reward, there's a risk, right? Why make it just a boring purchase/receipt possibility?

Such ships might, with a very small chance, have a unique mission associated with them. Or, they could have something hidden away in them that the NPC overlooked or didn't know about.

A player could buy a used ship and, once received, could find an old jump drive the NPC overlooked. (The equivalent of buying a used couch and finding money in it that fell beneath the cushions.)

Or, the engine might explode as soon as the ship leaves the dock, requiring extensive repairs. (Buyer beware! Never think a Taledi is giving you a "deal." The Taledi always profitssss.)

Or, maybe the ship is haunted? That would only be a very, very, rare thing that can only happen once during gameplay. Maybe an "AI" ghost that leads the player to some further reward or short "quest." That sort of thing would be an "Easter Egg" that players would probably chase after during play and would be delightfully rewarded with a completely random, generated when the mission is accepted, ship of medium or large size. Players who successfully found and completed such a mission would likely end up posting their "reward" for bragging rights. Since a free medium/large ship complete with randomized weapon loadouts and tunings would be a good reward, no matter what it was, every player would see it as a good reward, no matter what they got.

In other words - Use the "used ship for sale" mechanic to introduce even more spice, more excitement, more interest in sandbox play. Every appearance of one of these Used Ship Dealers at a station would cause the player's heart-rate to go up a couple of beats, if only for just a few minutes while they deliberated whether not to buy it. They could be buying a "lemon" or a "peach" and they won't know until they spend the credits on it.
Oh, this I like very very much - such a simple and elegant way to add always-welcome diversity. Even the caveat emptor bit, despite its potential for nasty swinginess (maybe make the chance of mechanical mishap be proportional to player prosperity - then again, artificial checks and balances are so.. artificial :P So, perhaps rather not...)
-
Boron passenger: "You must hurry - my testicles are drying out!"
-
Born on Lave, raised on Freeport 7...
-
The Write Stuff

Post Reply

Return to “X4: Foundations”