XL ship armament

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Dyloxide
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XL ship armament

Post by Dyloxide » Thu, 5. Oct 17, 08:01

So there was a post in the forums about capital ships having a lack of customization options for weapons because they would have the ship built around the weapon.

So I was wondering is this the case with all XL/Capital ships? Or are we going to have other ships where we have complete control, or at least partial over the weaponry.

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Post by razor202 » Thu, 5. Oct 17, 08:35

I think that CBJ means that only the capital ships' main guns couldn't be changed. Their other weapons of course can be changed. In my opinion, the capital ships in X3 or previous games actually have no main guns.

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Re: XL ship armament

Post by RAVEN.myst » Thu, 5. Oct 17, 09:41

Dyloxide wrote:So there was a post in the forums about capital ships having a lack of customization options for weapons because they would have the ship built around the weapon.

So I was wondering is this the case with all XL/Capital ships? Or are we going to have other ships where we have complete control, or at least partial over the weaponry.
The discussion was *only* specifically about those few ships that have an integral weapon, such as the Sucellus with its IHC and the Balor with its Novadrone multi-launcher - it was not about capital ships in general.
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Post by Crimsonraziel » Thu, 5. Oct 17, 10:38

razor202 wrote:I think that CBJ means that only the capital ships' main guns couldn't be changed. Their other weapons of course can be changed. In my opinion, the capital ships in X3 or previous games actually have no main guns.
There are frontal weapons and turrets in X3. I think the former are the equivalent of main guns in X4.
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Post by linolafett » Thu, 5. Oct 17, 10:53

Yeah, i think you all got it right.
There are some capital ships, which have forward mounted weapons. These can not be changed.
In addition to these, you still have the normal turrets which can be exchanged with different tyoes of turrets.
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Post by razor202 » Thu, 5. Oct 17, 11:10

I think we have already seen the main guns of the Behemoth class destroyer in the trailer (about 00:35-00:37, the orange ones on 2 sides in the front of the ship).

By the way, I'm still so curious about the question proposed in my topic below about the XL class non-carrier combat ships. As we have seen the new Colossus, so where is the new Titan? The Behemoth is awesome, but not large enough. :D
https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0

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Post by mr.WHO » Thu, 5. Oct 17, 17:28

razor202 wrote:I think we have already seen the main guns of the Behemoth class destroyer in the trailer (about 00:35-00:37, the orange ones on 2 sides in the front of the ship).
Wow, you're rigth - Behemot has some kind of forward fixed orange turrets that still have some of degree or barrel rotation (much better that Sucellus fully fixed mount):
https://youtu.be/FuIeKMYaIAk?t=34s

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Post by Morkonan » Thu, 5. Oct 17, 23:09

I think what's being aimed for is for large, expensive, ships having more of a clearly defined tactical role.

All in all, I think it's a good thing. It requires the player to develop a sort of rock-paper-scissors order-of-battle rather than just throwing whatever large ship they have at any situation.

In X3TC, this was also the case, as large ships generally had specialized functions. Well, up to a point, that is... I think it's best illustrated by the differences between medium size ships in X3TC as these most certainly had their strengths and shortcomings. In X3TC, these ships were defined by their loadout capability, their armor, their speed and maneuverability and "speceial weapon" capability that other ships of their class from other race factions couldn't equal.

The only thing I don't want to see is a "this is the best ship, by far, for xx tactical application." I don't want to see any faction's ship become the undisputed "best" in its role to such an extent that having them becomes an "I WIN" button. Ships with hardcoded capabilities need, of course, to have their strengths, but must also have their weaknesses that the player has to plan for. Even obtaining what may be "the best" ship of a class for a tactical use needs to counter-weighted by having the necessary ability to support it in that role.

Note: We also must consider that the player flying such a large ship needs to be supported, as well. In short - When the player presses the "fire" button on a capital ship's spinal-mount weapon, they need a suitable reward for that. That's not to say that it must always be something assploading all over teh place... But, it has to be significant, worthy of such a top-tier vessel piloted by the player. It could be the generation of an impenatrible shield that emits a series of ion pulses, disabling many small ships or a concussive forward-generated wave that disorients other ships or even the launch of multiple marine-carrying assault pods to overwhelm and capture most midsize ships, etc.. Whatever it is, it has to have a suitable reward for activating its "special feature."

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Post by A5PECT » Thu, 5. Oct 17, 23:49

linolafett wrote:Yeah, i think you all got it right.
There are some capital ships, which have forward mounted weapons. These can not be changed.
In addition to these, you still have the normal turrets which can be exchanged with different tyoes of turrets.
So, for example if you had a Sucellus in X4:

You could switch out the HIT/MA turrets for another type of turret.

But the IHC would not be able to be changed, as it's integral to the ship.

Is that the idea?
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Fri, 6. Oct 17, 03:28

Morkonan wrote:Note: We also must consider that the player flying such a large ship needs to be supported, as well. In short - When the player presses the "fire" button on a capital ship's spinal-mount weapon, they need a suitable reward for that.
Mmm, that's a subtle but significant point, I reckon. I think that this "reward" could (in fact, I'd argue "should") in part consist of suitably impressive audio-visual feedback - the player should derive satisfaction from, having carefully aligned the ship into a suitable firing position, activating the weapon and seeing it look impressive. Of course, it needs to also BE somewhat impressive, otherwise the experience will be cheapened and incongruous; also, the effect needs to have sufficient "wow factor" but not so much as to obscure the view (Pteranodon with front-mounted PALCs, I'm looking at you - or rather, I think I am, but can't see past all that on-screen radiance...)
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Post by Morkonan » Fri, 6. Oct 17, 05:16

RAVEN.myst wrote:
Morkonan wrote:Note: We also must consider that the player flying such a large ship needs to be supported, as well. In short - When the player presses the "fire" button on a capital ship's spinal-mount weapon, they need a suitable reward for that.
Mmm, that's a subtle but significant point, I reckon. I think that this "reward" could (in fact, I'd argue "should") in part consist of suitably impressive audio-visual feedback - the player should derive satisfaction from, having carefully aligned the ship into a suitable firing position, activating the weapon and seeing it look impressive. Of course, it needs to also BE somewhat impressive, otherwise the experience will be cheapened and incongruous; also, the effect needs to have sufficient "wow factor" but not so much as to obscure the view (Pteranodon with front-mounted PALCs, I'm looking at you - or rather, I think I am, but can't see past all that on-screen radiance...)
Absolutely!

It's the coin-op game notion of reward/cost. In a coin-operated video game, what's the reward for that money you just paid? "Bells and whistles" right? Lights everywhere, great sounds, brilliant graphics, maybe some force-feedback or a comfy chair?

Imagine finally getting your GinormousHugiantic SuperDestroyer X1 for your very own. Sure, you're gonna sit in it, 'cause that's why you wanted it. So, you pilot it around a bit. Yeah, it's slow, a little bit sluggish, but it's yuge and shaped like an angry phallous...

So, you finally get to take it into battle. You give orders to the other ships in the fleet, all carefully prepared so you end up getting the glory shots, and you finally get to push the button on the GinormousHugiantic SuperDestroyer X1's signature weapon!

That signature weapon had better be a giant @$%-OFF LAZOR MK-IV with bright, splashy, effects and an extra channel dedicated to the sub-woofer so, that with every trigger-pull, your neighbor's cat experiences a spontaneous abortion...

But, that signature weapon doesn't have to be a giant @$%-OFF LAZOR MK-IV. It could be a signature ability, like providing a dampening field that prevents other ships from escaping. Yet, when you push that signature-ability button... sub-woofers, neighbor's cats, etc.

That's why people pump money into video-game vending machines and that's the sort of introduction and draw players need to these very large, very expensive, dreadnoughts with signature weapons. Nobody is going to fly them all the time, but they will darn sure love pushing that darn button when they do. :)

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Post by DaMuncha » Fri, 6. Oct 17, 06:48

"That signature weapon had better be a giant @$%-OFF LAZOR MK-IV with bright, splashy, effects and an extra channel dedicated to the sub-woofer so, that with every trigger-pull, your neighbor's cat experiences a spontaneous abortion... "

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Post by Morkonan » Sat, 7. Oct 17, 02:29

DaMuncha wrote:"That signature weapon had better be a giant @$%-OFF LAZOR MK-IV with bright, splashy, effects and an extra channel dedicated to the sub-woofer so, that with every trigger-pull, your neighbor's cat experiences a spontaneous abortion... "

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Post by caleb » Wed, 11. Oct 17, 23:10

I like the idea of ships having some specialized weapons (defining its role) and some customizable weapons. That would push towards mixed fleets to cover all possible outcomes.

You could have ships with giant harpoons, and drills/cutters that would be your boarding ships, ships with tractor beams to avoid others from escaping, ships with flak weaponry for anti-fighter defense, etc, etc.

That would force the player to go for a balanced/mixed fleet, and not just as many M0s as you can buy because... Well, because they are big and can do everything. And to feel the pain if you did not take enough fighter cover and watch as your destroyers get blown to bits by small fighter-bombers :)

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Post by Sandalpocalypse » Fri, 13. Oct 17, 05:35

It depends a lot on their ship budget. All races need basically capable L frigates and XL battleships, able to engage other races XLs and the Xenon with rough equivalence. Which already adds up to a lot of ships.
Irrational factors are clearly at work.

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Post by Lc4Hunter » Fri, 13. Oct 17, 12:37

mr.WHO wrote:
razor202 wrote:I think we have already seen the main guns of the Behemoth class destroyer in the trailer (about 00:35-00:37, the orange ones on 2 sides in the front of the ship).
Wow, you're rigth - Behemot has some kind of forward fixed orange turrets that still have some of degree or barrel rotation (much better that Sucellus fully fixed mount):
https://youtu.be/FuIeKMYaIAk?t=34s
For me these guns at the front of the arms looked more like turrets and, if i´ve seen it right, the right gun/turret moved at the last moment we could see the ships before the scene switched.

But i´m not sure if it really moved or if it just looked like.


All in all i like the idea of fix mounted weapons on the ships you can´t change. It would be great to have 2 or 3 options for those mainguns but ok, it is like it is.
At first thought i was against it but it makes sense when i remember some other SciFi franchises like my beloved Babylon 5. The Warlock class Destroyers were build around two extremely powerful particle beams. Those two weapons had an enormous size and the whole ship was designed and build to carry this weapons.

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