Middle Earth: Shadow of War

Anything not relating to the X-Universe games (general tech talk, other games...) belongs here. Please read the rules before posting.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

muppetts
Posts: 7180
Joined: Fri, 10. Oct 03, 13:50
x3tc

Middle Earth: Shadow of War

Post by muppetts » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 10:08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHwKAwWNLLo

E3 footage, looks great!

Googled but could not find existing thread?
VURT The only Feathers to Fly With......

Ezarkal
Posts: 1610
Joined: Wed, 22. Apr 15, 02:27
x4

Post by Ezarkal » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 14:27

I just cleared Shadow of Mordor. I guess I'll have to take a look at the sequel, now.
Humans are deuterostomes, which means that when they develop in the womb the first opening they develop is the anus.
This means that at one point you were nothing but an asshole.

Some people never develop beyond this stage.

muppetts
Posts: 7180
Joined: Fri, 10. Oct 03, 13:50
x3tc

Post by muppetts » Thu, 15. Jun 17, 08:44

VURT The only Feathers to Fly With......

Jericho
Posts: 9732
Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
x2

Post by Jericho » Thu, 15. Jun 17, 09:07

I bought the first on a Steam sale a while ago, but I have yet to play it. Might have to wait until winter draws in... But then the 2nd will be released!!!!!


FirstWorldProblems.
"I've got a bad feeling about this!" Harrison Ford, 5 times a year, trying to land his plane.

muppetts
Posts: 7180
Joined: Fri, 10. Oct 03, 13:50
x3tc

Post by muppetts » Thu, 15. Jun 17, 09:42

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzc8kZB ... verified=1

new assault

I loved the nemisis system, favorite part of the game was building up dominated orks captains to fight for me, this new game is all gravy as far as i am concerned!
VURT The only Feathers to Fly With......

Golden_Gonads
Posts: 2628
Joined: Fri, 13. Feb 04, 20:21
x3tc

Post by Golden_Gonads » Thu, 15. Jun 17, 10:25

I didn't get hugely into the first game. Doing the same thing three dozen times and winning with not a lot of variation... It WAS great fun for the first few hours but... Mind you, I never did get round to completing it. I got to the second map then the game decided to lose a fair chunk of progress and kicked me back to the first map, so...

muppetts
Posts: 7180
Joined: Fri, 10. Oct 03, 13:50
x3tc

Post by muppetts » Thu, 15. Jun 17, 12:38

I think that was the worst part of the first game, being a completionist (spelling!) i wiped map 1, entered map 2 over leveled and then found the much cooler skills I did not know existed and went about doing allot of the same but more fun.

The season pass was not good quality or value so will not be getting that and of course will be waiting 8 months post release for patchs and sale.

But I did love building up captains, getting my people to betray others and set ambush's, trying to make that perfect Legendary captain I could dominate and sick on the rest of them.

Of course while I had a great time with the game, it was capt by that all time turd of endings, that instead of getting to use all you had learned in a grand final fight you get...............a quick time event, that you have to learn the 9 button press's to pass and get THE END.

Why oh why spend 3 years making a good game and then tack on a 2 day animation QTE ending!!!

Dying Light did exactly the same thing!
VURT The only Feathers to Fly With......

muppetts
Posts: 7180
Joined: Fri, 10. Oct 03, 13:50
x3tc

Post by muppetts » Tue, 8. Aug 17, 10:06

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/0 ... nsactions/

Ug they are putting in microtransactions for single player but like all games that do that (like the ones where you speed up build time) you just know the game will be designed to push the paid loot.

I know they say you can earn it all in game but they always say that. It is not like the idea is new but I thought it had died a death, SP really does not need this.
VURT The only Feathers to Fly With......

Bishop149
Posts: 7232
Joined: Fri, 9. Apr 04, 21:19
x3

Post by Bishop149 » Tue, 8. Aug 17, 11:15

Yep, microtransactions in a full price (£40+), Triple A, SINGLE player game.
Lol, no . . . . they can sod right off.

Loved the first game but they just lost a sale. Holding your nose and buying it anyway based on its predecessor will only encourage publishers to pull this crap more often, followed by incrementally worse versions of it.
"Shoot for the Moon. If you miss, you'll end up co-orbiting the Sun alongside Earth, living out your days alone in the void within sight of the lush, welcoming home you left behind." - XKCD

Jericho
Posts: 9732
Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
x2

Post by Jericho » Tue, 8. Aug 17, 12:17

I have the opposite view than the ones that the developers intended regarding microtransactions: They break the game for me.

I regard them the same as crafting: It makes the game pointless.

I enjoy opening that chest or looting that corpse to discover what crappy/fabulous new piece of armor or weapon I've found. Crafting and microtransactions remove that thrill.

Mass Effect Andromeda for example had the most basic crafting system (not a patch on Inquisition's) and after I was stupid enough to create an SMG in the crafting system, I never needed any of the ones that I picked up. Same for armor and an assault rifle. It made looting pointless. There was nothing to spend money on in the 'stores' (a laughable name for the), so all loot was just broken down into components.

Imagine playing Diablo or Borderlands with a crafting system or microtransactions so you can just get whatever you want... What is the point of playing?


Regarding Mordor, I doubt the game will be nerfed until you buy a specific weapon. If they just do skins and stuff, then I might even be tempted (I bought skins in Borderlands 2 for example, because I have no wiill power).
"I've got a bad feeling about this!" Harrison Ford, 5 times a year, trying to land his plane.

pjknibbs
Posts: 41359
Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
x4

Post by pjknibbs » Tue, 8. Aug 17, 13:18

Jericho wrote: Imagine playing Diablo or Borderlands with a crafting system or microtransactions so you can just get whatever you want... What is the point of playing?
Diablo 2 *did* have a crafting system via the Horadric Cube, but the results were random in most cases, so you weren't guaranteed to get anything better than you already had.

User avatar
euclid
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Posts: 13289
Joined: Sun, 15. Feb 04, 20:12
x4

Post by euclid » Tue, 8. Aug 17, 16:10

pjknibbs wrote:
Jericho wrote: Imagine playing Diablo or Borderlands with a crafting system or microtransactions so you can just get whatever you want... What is the point of playing?
Diablo 2 *did* have a crafting system via the Horadric Cube, but the results were random in most cases, so you weren't guaranteed to get anything better than you already had.
Same for Diablo 3 but there's also a blacksmith (armor & weapons) and a Jeweler (rings &necklaces).

Cheers Euclid
"In any special doctrine of nature there can be only as much proper science as there is mathematics therein.”
- Immanuel Kant (1724-1804), Metaphysical Foundations of the Science of Nature, 4:470, 1786

User avatar
Morkonan
Posts: 10113
Joined: Sun, 25. Sep 11, 04:33
x3tc

Post by Morkonan » Tue, 8. Aug 17, 16:58

Jericho wrote:...Imagine playing Diablo or Borderlands with a crafting system or microtransactions so you can just get whatever you want... What is the point of playing?...
A good crafting system supplements gameplay and doesn't replace it. Bad crafting systems are those that yield "uber items" that make interacting with the main portion of rpg gameplay redundant or worse. IMO, a good crafting system also gives the player a sense of achievement/accomplishment, much like finishing a quest or defeating a difficult mob.

Note: Some games have crafting systems that are mandatory while others have crafting that is optional. Games that focus significant development on player crafting are in their own genre, really. These days, many RPG games have some form of crafting in them, even if it's not the "making items from components while standing at a forge" sort. For instance, X3:TC has "crafting" in it - You construct ships from components you build in order to yield purpose-built game items tailored according to your designs rather than only relying on the assets the game gives you during play.

User avatar
Ketraar
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 11741
Joined: Fri, 21. May 04, 17:15
x4

Post by Ketraar » Tue, 8. Aug 17, 19:30

Think thats stretching the crafting interpretation a bit though. Usually crafting involves in having a set amount of specific items/wares that can be mixed together and then they transform into a new item, often making the process irreversible. I'm struggling to find anything in X prior to Rebirth, which does have crafting, that does that.

MFG

Ketraar

pjknibbs
Posts: 41359
Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
x4

Post by pjknibbs » Tue, 8. Aug 17, 22:01

Yeah, I'm with Ketraar there--being able to choose which guns and shields you put on your ship is nowhere near a crafting system, any more than being able to pick a different sword for your RPG fantasy character counts as one.

Jericho
Posts: 9732
Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
x2

Post by Jericho » Wed, 9. Aug 17, 09:40

I should have specified Diablo 3, as I haven't played the others. And with the Diablo 3 crafting (that I recall), you still had to loot a good weapon and some good gems (I'm probably mixing up Diablo 3, Torchlight, and Path of Exile, as I seem to recall them all being similar). And each time you find a new piece of loot, you are still faced with the "Oh, but this does more fire damage but slightly less per second, where as this does slightly less electricity damage but is slightly more per second. WHICH DO I CHOOSE!!!!"

With crafting in Andromeda for example, it was just "Loot random junk from monsters, create a weapon that will never be surpassed." It was the least possible effort they could have put into the system. The level progression in Inquisition seemed to mitigate that somewhat, but I still held onto the stuff I'd made longer than I should have done.

Borderlands 2 does it right (for me) with the amount of weapon drops.


Anyway... Microtransactions... What is it that will actually be transacted? (And at what point does a microtransaction become a transaction?)
"I've got a bad feeling about this!" Harrison Ford, 5 times a year, trying to land his plane.

muppetts
Posts: 7180
Joined: Fri, 10. Oct 03, 13:50
x3tc

Post by muppetts » Wed, 9. Aug 17, 17:48

I don't care if they are there, they can be ignored, provided they do not effect the game, which of course, given how noble the practice is to start with, it will.
VURT The only Feathers to Fly With......

User avatar
Morkonan
Posts: 10113
Joined: Sun, 25. Sep 11, 04:33
x3tc

Post by Morkonan » Wed, 9. Aug 17, 18:33

pjknibbs wrote:Yeah, I'm with Ketraar there--being able to choose which guns and shields you put on your ship is nowhere near a crafting system, any more than being able to pick a different sword for your RPG fantasy character counts as one.
I disagree, of course.

"Crafting" typically involves a player gathering and constructing components and combining them with the result of introducing a specialized tool or resource into gameplay that would not have existed before. This can then become part of a new gameplay element, sometimes introducing new gameplay mechanics.

Ship construction in X3:TC (What I'm most familiar with) can do exactly this. The components must be gathered and are often only a portion of a much larger chain of construction and logistics that allow the player to construct new ships with combined components and capabilities that are not present anywhere else in the game. New gameplay elements are also introduced.

Granted, it's a broad interpretation at first look. But, at its base, it's no different than some of the games that are renowned for their intricate crafting experience. Factories, complexes, the Hub, the player's HQ, ship weapons and systems and the combining of them into ships with new capabilities, buying and training "pilots" and adding them to ships, allowing one to develop personalized logistics systems, mining and processing resources and combining them, often in many steps, into new forms, etc..

One may think that because the player doesn't actually produce anything that isn't available, in some form or combination, then this means there is no crafting. But, the ability that the player has to create new combinations of things and to "craft" a new logistics system or a specialized fleet of ships by gathering and modifying raw materials is, IMO, at the heart of what most players of crafting games would experience, just in a different form.

Counter that with another "open world" game, like "Mount and Blade" warband, which the X series is often compared to, and one can immediately see the difference - One can't create, without mods, anything in Mount and Blade that isn't already available and there is no gathering or combining of basic resources aside from trading.

Finally, for an easy proof, one can, of course, craft missiles from raw components and sell them while playing X3:TC, right? This isn't "crafting?" Why?

User avatar
Ketraar
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 11741
Joined: Fri, 21. May 04, 17:15
x4

Post by Ketraar » Wed, 9. Aug 17, 19:09

Well I understand what you are getting at, but I think most would not consider that crafting at all. Also your example with the X3 ships does not really hold up as they are made of magic code. All you do is exchange numbers in the player account with "plopped" ships that appear out of thin space air. :-P

Delivering wares to a station and then that station producing other wares, is also not really crafting me thinks, I'd always associate crafting with a thing only the player character does, but I may just be ignorant about it as I dont really play games that have crafting too much.

MFG

Ketraar

pjknibbs
Posts: 41359
Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
x4

Post by pjknibbs » Wed, 9. Aug 17, 22:22

Morkonan wrote: I disagree, of course.
That's OK, it doesn't make you a lesser person because you're wrong about something. :P

Seriously, this is *why* I think you're wrong: to my mind, a crafting system produces something permanent which cannot be changed entirely into another thing, although it can itself be used as an ingredient for further crafting. Example: in a fantasy RPG you can craft a sword, or you can craft an axe, but you can't craft a sword *into* an axe or vice versa. Weapons and shields in X3 can be swapped out at any time, in the same way that the fantasy RPG character can swap out their sword for an axe, so they're not "permanent" changes to the ship.

Post Reply

Return to “Off Topic English”