Star Trek - Discovery

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Morkonan
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Post by Morkonan » Tue, 31. Oct 17, 17:53

pjknibbs wrote:You have touching faith in production companies, in that case. We live in a world where Firefly didn't make it through more than half a season, after all. Since Discovery is on Netflix I guess it doesn't have to go through pickups halfway through the season like most US shows, so at least they'll finish the first season!
I understand. But, I don't really see the appeal that Firefly's enthusiastic fanbase draws on, to be honest. Sure, it was probably more interesting than some other sci-fi shows that were more successful. It certainly had an interesting setting, so I'll give it that much. And, it had a sort of wild-west-in-space kinda appeal, I suppose.

Still... From what I saw of it, it was only "OK." That being said, I don't begrudge anyone their enthusiasms, especially when it comes down to science-fiction.

But, if this holds any truths, it does demonstrate that Firefly was not an established, billions-of-dollars, IP that would have warranted the sorts of protections I've put forth: http://www.looper.com/10800/real-reason ... -canceled/

IOW - It had more problems than it had any right to have. Things were far from perfect for that series. Linear storylines aired out of order? Lolz... GG, way to win teh game...

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Post by Usenko » Thu, 2. Nov 17, 12:13

Redvers Ganderpoke wrote: Who the hell is HFM as he isn't the same character that appears in TOS. (See I,Mudd and Mudd's Women)
Oh, he's the same character, in much the same way that Batman (a la Chris Nolan) is the same character as the Batman of the 1960s TV show . . .
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Post by burger1 » Thu, 2. Nov 17, 19:01

mrbadger wrote:Watched Episode one of Orville last night, breaking my rule of not watching something while its in the first season, because I was bored.

Change the uniforms, and it could have been a pretty darned good 'funny Star Trek', I enjoyed the whole thing.
The Orville has also been renewed for a second season. Orville has only 13 episodes while Discovery has 15-16 episodes in season 1.

https://deadline.com/2017/11/the-orvill ... 202200369/

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Post by Jericho » Fri, 3. Nov 17, 08:59

I've not seen The Orville yet, but I've watched a few clips on youtube...

I really don't like the way their voices echo across the bridge.. Almost as if it were a school play. They need to fire their sound-guys, and maybe use a boom instead of whatever crappy mic is attached to the camcorder... (I jest...). It just screams 'Amateur' but not in an intentional or funny way.
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Post by Redvers Ganderpoke » Wed, 8. Nov 17, 12:27

This last episode has finally lost me - words fail me on how bad it was - the only thing that would make me watch the next episode is just to see if it was getting worse.
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Post by Usenko » Wed, 8. Nov 17, 12:58

Weird, Redvers - I LOVED the last episode. I thought it was really good.

(There were some editing issues, but no big problems).

Funny how different folks see the same thing differently.
Morkonan wrote:What really happened isn't as exciting. Putin flexed his left thigh during his morning ride on a flying bear, right after beating fifty Judo blackbelts, which he does upon rising every morning. (Not that Putin sleeps, it's just that he doesn't want to make others feel inadequate.)

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Post by Redvers Ganderpoke » Wed, 8. Nov 17, 13:41

Usenko wrote:Weird, Redvers - I LOVED the last episode. I thought it was really good.

(There were some editing issues, but no big problems).

Funny how different folks see the same thing differently.
If everyone liked the same stuff that would be weirder ;)
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The cliff hanger at the end didn't even work for me. The wife and I agreed that "Spock's Brain" had a more credible plot - "Top" scientists land on a planet with a huge organic /Crystalline transmitter (and looked totally unnatural) and are surprised that it was built by a sentient race - it was so obvious that my 13yr daughter guessed it. I'm also not sure how this transmitter would disable the Klingon Cloaking devices as as far as I could tell the Feds had no idea how the cloaking (invisiblility as they called it) devices worked. It all seemed like utter nonsense.
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Post by Crimsonraziel » Wed, 8. Nov 17, 14:59

Redvers Ganderpoke wrote:
If everyone liked the same stuff that would be weirder ;)
Spoiler
Show
The cliff hanger at the end didn't even work for me. The wife and I agreed that "Spock's Brain" had a more credible plot - "Top" scientists land on a planet with a huge organic /Crystalline transmitter (and looked totally unnatural) and are surprised that it was built by a sentient race - it was so obvious that my 13yr daughter guessed it. I'm also not sure how this transmitter would disable the Klingon Cloaking devices as as far as I could tell the Feds had no idea how the cloaking (invisiblility as they called it) devices worked. It all seemed like utter nonsense.
Spoiler
Show
It would be nonsense if they said they want to use it to disable they cloaking devices. But the plan was to use the transmitter as a giant detector. Basically some kind of fancy scifi-radar.
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Post by mrbadger » Wed, 8. Nov 17, 16:47

Morkonan wrote: I understand. But, I don't really see the appeal that Firefly's enthusiastic fanbase draws on, to be honest. Sure, it was probably more interesting than some other sci-fi shows that were more successful. It certainly had an interesting setting, so I'll give it that much. And, it had a sort of wild-west-in-space kinda appeal, I suppose.

Still... From what I saw of it, it was only "OK." That being said, I don't begrudge anyone their enthusiasms, especially when it comes down to science-fiction
It was different, at a time when TV SF was all getting a bit too samey. But there weren't enough episodes for it to get established, or live on in syndication. I liked it, but there were too few episodes for me to say it was great. I liked it. I would have preferred it not to have been cancelled so soon. But no-one was watching it, so it was doomed.

Niche audiences don't work, they never have, shows have to make money or they die.

The movie was good. Much better than the TV show, for one thing it had a complete story arc.

They have that story universe, they could use it for another show.
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Post by Morkonan » Wed, 8. Nov 17, 17:59

mrbadger wrote:...Niche audiences don't work, they never have, shows have to make money or they die.

The movie was good. Much better than the TV show, for one thing it had a complete story arc.

They have that story universe, they could use it for another show.
You're right, a niche audience can't carry a show. It can carry it through some rough spots, but it can't pay for it by itself.

Star Trek "did something." I think people are still trying to find out why a show that was cancelled ended up becoming a "Crusade" for fans. And, it wasn't just contemporary fans - It gained fans in syndication, too.

I see it's available on Hulu and was re-run on the Science Channel in 2011. But, neither is exactly a top syndication audience. I think they missed their chance.


On the new series: I read that they're using a sort of, well... tired hook Each episode sets up a cliffhanger/grand-finale for the next week. Is that true?

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Post by Jericho » Thu, 9. Nov 17, 10:22

There are more and more channels, more and more content on youtube and other services... We are now at the point when a show gets 2millions views it is considered a hit, but when I was young (and there were only 3, then 4, channels) that would be an embarrassingly low number of viewers. The viewing public is now spread so thin over all the channels, it's a miracle they are able to accurately collect data on all the shows (Are they able?)


I don't quite understand why TV PEOPLE didn't see this coming. Didn't we all? If you endlessly increase the number of channels, there are a finite number of viewers and a finite number of advertisers (who are not happy about the ever decreasing number of viewers).

It's a bit like selling TVs. "Let's sell everyone a giant plasma screen! Look how well we've done!!! Oh crap!! How do we sell new TVs now that everyone has a giant plasma?"

Increasing the number of channels to this capacity is one of the worst things to ever happen to TV. "But you can watch TV 24 hours a day!!!!!!" Yeah... Have you ever seen the crap at 3am?

Endless cheaply made reality crap at primetime just to fill up all the channels in the desperate hope that advertisers will pay.

I've just heard that a show I've never heard of "Darkmatter" has been cancelled. Also this makes me realize that I've no idea what happened at the end of Stargate Atlantis or Stargate Universe (or whatever it was called. I quite liked it to be honest, but lost track after it ended). Never actually seen Firefly, although I have the boxset and film

Just wondering how many other shows I've never heard of... Meanwhile everyone keeps telling me to watch Dexter (I've watched the first 3 or 4 and found the characters to be awful, the sister to be the worst ever, and it looks like it was filmed on a camcorder).
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Post by Morkonan » Thu, 9. Nov 17, 17:12

Jericho wrote:...The viewing public is now spread so thin over all the channels, it's a miracle they are able to accurately collect data on all the shows (Are they able?)..
Nielson is still doing fine: http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/solutions/ ... ision.html

And, with television broadcasts mandated being digital, no worries there, either. All the cable companies are laughing their way to the bank, since they collect all the data needed. And sell it, of course. Everyone gets in on the deal, too, from Hulu to Roku to Amazon.

I don't quite understand why TV PEOPLE didn't see this coming. Didn't we all? If you endlessly increase the number of channels, there are a finite number of viewers and a finite number of advertisers (who are not happy about the ever decreasing number of viewers).
Advertising isn't the end-all-be-all of all media. A great deal of money changes hands in channel sales to providers and agreements between distributors. Channels like CNN don't make their money from advertising, for example, but from selling the rights to offer its channel to cable companies who know, without a doubt, that if they don't have it, they'll lose subscribers.

While advertising is the lion's share of the revenue stream, technology and market conditions, with the rise of "media conglomerates", have broadened the spectrum of opportunities. Channels/media want quality shows to attract viewers to leverage all of their opportunities, not just advertising. And, in the absence of quality programing, one model has proven successful - Crap.

Look at The WB. It was always crap. It specialized in pushing crap to teens, who aren't very discriminating anyway. But, where did everything go when it couldn't sustain the crap-push? The CW snapped up the biggest pieces of poo, incorporated them into its philosophy of "people like their guilty pleasures when it comes to watching crap[/url] and has become one of the largest distributors of crap on television, gaining national attention whenever it introduces yet another "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" that mated with "Dawson's Creek" and added "superhero powas" to create... really big pieces of poo that sell all sorts of products and make money from more than just advertising.
It's a bit like selling TVs. "Let's sell everyone a giant plasma screen! Look how well we've done!!! Oh crap!! How do we sell new TVs now that everyone has a giant plasma?"
You can polish a turd and people will buy it. "Content is King" and nobody truly cares if it's good, they only care whether or not they can sell it.

There are many formulaic shows out there and they all draw from the same sorts of foundations, even if they may seem to be very "different" from each other in terms of setting or subject matter. The problem isn't coming up with something that will sell, it's getting it in front of people faces. If you can hold something shiny in front of enough people's faces, you will eventually get enough people to buy it to make that effort worth your while.

And, all of these media outlets focus on maximizing their monetary efforts. A hit media show will be gang-raped by as many people as possible in order to maximize its returns. Why is there a friggin "Walking Dead" coffee mug? The last thing I want to think of while drinking my morning coffee is "dead human flesh." Yet, there it is and it's there because people will buy it.

Companion media is rampant, from fan-pages, Twitter and Facebook groups, youtube channels hosting talks with the stars, Comic-con rallies and news-media blitzes..

Even if it's not all about advertising, think of how you, as an advertiser, feels about the possibility of buying some time for a television lineup that includes shows that are constantly in your face, on coffee mugs, in the news, making the front-pages of all the media mags, blogs, etc... And, if your kid loves the show, even though you know it's a piece of crap? You can't escape from it, so of course you'll buy some time.

It's not all bad. Not everything is crap. Sometimes, something decent floats to the top of the bowl. With the number of media channels available and the many ways a show can be monetized, even if it's just to fill dead airtime, some decent entertainment still has room to be successful. In fact, if anything has been shown in this latest evolution of "entertainment content", the many different ways a show can be brought to consumers has allowed some good quality shows to gain support.

Those shows would not have been possible, otherwise. And, with increasingly deep pockets, media distributors are betting on their ability to produce their own entertainment content. By owning the production and distribution of a show, they can fully control all aspects of "making money" from it.

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Post by mrbadger » Thu, 9. Nov 17, 21:01

There's these companion shows too.

They started with Talking Bad for Breaking Bad, which I watched a couple of, before I realised they were utter nonsense and I was wasting my time, since they added nothing to the experience of watching Breaking Bad itself (which was awesome). Then there's the Talking Dead, which is the same for that Walking Dead show, which my step daughter likes, but as I understand it, should really have ended already.

Now there's one for Discovery called After Trek. We even have one for a cooking show in the UK. I know because my wife watches it. We both watch the cooking show, but she watches the companion show.

Whatever, it's all getting a bit meta, shows about shows.
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Post by Morkonan » Thu, 9. Nov 17, 23:39

mrbadger wrote:...
Whatever, it's all getting a bit meta, shows about shows.
Absolutely. They need to hype the hype. And, they need to have an easy way to say "Be sure to check us out on Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Pornhub, uh... Well, not Youtube."

They say "People want to learn and talk about the show, "meet" the stars, "ask" them questions, etc..." And, I suppose, one can't have a fan convention every week.

But, they don't need a television show for that. That's just "extra", turning every episode into a must-watch drama because, if you don't watch it, you can't watch the after-episode-show...

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Post by burger1 » Thu, 9. Nov 17, 23:57

It looks like after this weeks episode they will not air another until January 7, 2018. So season 1 episode 9 on Sunday/Monday then a break until episode 10. The remaining five episodes after that will run through the following five Sundays with no breaks, not even for the Grammys. This means the first season of Star Trek:Discovery will wrap up on February 11th, 2018 with episode 15.

https://trekmovie.com/2017/11/09/star-t ... -revealed/

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Post by Jericho » Fri, 10. Nov 17, 10:14

burger1 wrote:It looks like after this weeks episode they will not air another until January 7, 2018. So season 1 episode 9 on Sunday/Monday then a break until episode 10. The remaining five episodes after that will run through the following five Sundays with no breaks, not even for the Grammys. This means the first season of Star Trek:Discovery will wrap up on February 11th, 2018 with episode 15.
That always fascinates me about the US Tv schedules... They have these huge random breaks, then random time switching and day switching, and then complain when people don't watch... Well, they tuned it at 9pm on Thursday to watch it, but you moved it to Sunday at 6 you moron.
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Post by Redvers Ganderpoke » Mon, 20. Nov 17, 14:00

Jericho wrote:That always fascinates me about the US Tv schedules... They have these huge random breaks, then random time switching and day switching, and then complain when people don't watch... Well, they tuned it at 9pm on Thursday to watch it, but you moved it to Sunday at 6 you moron.
UK schedules aren't much better especially if some "sport" event is on. Anyway schedules aren't important anymore as you can watch most things when you like via catachup. In this case in the UK it's only on Netflix so doesn't matter.

Watched the last episode at the weekend and although I still have problems with how predictable the show is (they seem to like to signal the ending halfway though - I had guessed the cliff hanger - not exactly new territory here) iit was one of the better episodes.


[/spoiler]
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