Returning to Rebirth after long hiatus

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Ravenstar
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Returning to Rebirth after long hiatus

Post by Ravenstar » Mon, 23. Oct 17, 15:02

Hi

I decided to have another go at X-Rebirth, after a year or more away.

Not happy with some of the things I find. In fact, some of the bugs from previously are still there, while in other ways the game has gotten worse.

1. Ship vulnerable while docked.
I complained about this previously. Your ship can be attacked while docked. Being as you are supposedly inside a docking bay. This should not be happening.

2. Albion Skunk sometimes wobbles when you get back in. In the worst case, when docked inside a Rahanas, this caused my ship to start spinning uncontrollably. Eventually, it clipped through the side of the Rahanas into space, the auto stabilisation kicked in but it took 15-30 seconds before the ship stopped spinning.

Which brings me to.
4. Ships clipping through stations, very infuriating when an enemy ship clips inside a station module and then cannot get out.

That Egosoft has let these bugs persist is a little disappointing, these sort of things put off new players.

That said I did have a fun time capturing a couple of Rahanases and a Titurel, (although I lost the 2 Rahanses while capturing it as a 2nd Marauder fleet joined the fray.
I have annoyed No Limits though, I stand at -22 faction rep with them so I need to find out where their stations are and cheer them up a little.

I do need to be careful when trying to cap ships as I was trying to get another Titurel when my fleet joined in and before I could stop them removed the last few percent of its hull. Luckily I hadn't sent in the marines.
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Re: Returning to Rebirth after long hiatus

Post by RAVEN.myst » Mon, 23. Oct 17, 16:28

Ravenstar wrote: 4. Ships clipping through stations, very infuriating when an enemy ship clips inside a station module and then cannot get out.
You can sweep this problem under the rug, usually, by leaving the zone (and perhaps then some) - when you return, if the ship hasn't been dealt with by the locals, it may have gotten out. Alternatively, while away from the afflicted place, if you have forces you can throw at it, they can deal with it (collision detection is turned off when abstract-simulating non-rendered space.)
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Post by Ravenstar » Tue, 24. Oct 17, 14:49

Thanks for that.

My point is though that some of these bugs are not new. They've been reported in the past. Why had Egosoft not fixed them?
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Post by CBJ » Tue, 24. Oct 17, 14:55

1. This is news to me. The player ship is not vulnerable in that situation. Can you explain what you mean and why you think it is?
2. I have seen this, but we have fixed those cases that we have been made aware of. It is a highly framerate-dependent problem, though, so if you could provide a savegame and information about the kind of framerate you are experiencing at that point in the game, then we can take a look.
3. Whatever happened to 3? ;)
4. This is not an easy problem to solve. It is, again, framerate-dependent, and most possible solutions would make that framerate considerably worse.

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Post by Ravenstar » Tue, 24. Oct 17, 18:09

I'll start with 3 as that is the easiest. - I lost count lol

1. I remember this early on. I docked at a station and after I had finished I went to board my ship and found the boarding option was no longer available to me. As the ship had been attacked and destroyed while I was docked.

More recently when playing the campaign with PMC unfriendly I docked at a station with healthy shields. As soon as I undocked I was under fire from some PMC fighters that had wandered over while I was in the station. I exploded instantly.

2. I'll have to do that later on.

4. Surely there's some way to deal with clipping without making it framerate dependent?

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Post by RAVEN.myst » Tue, 24. Oct 17, 18:22

With regards to point 1. - I experienced this once or twice, being blown up while docked, but (except one special case - described after this) only in a VERY old version of the game, years ago.

OK, so that exception: recently I was docked at Core Dig (I think - it may have been the unique station at Badlands, but I don't think so), and while hanging around waiting for any of the NPCs there to speak to me, the entire dock got blown up by pirates, as it sometimes does - I'm assuming this is normal behaviour? After some time, destroyed docks respawn (I had visited that dock earlier on, looking to set up a trade agent, and the dock wasn't there at the time - and since Core Dig has only the one, clearly it was replaced before my next visit.)
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Post by CBJ » Tue, 24. Oct 17, 18:29

Ravenstar wrote:1. I remember this early on. I docked at a station and after I had finished I went to board my ship and found the boarding option was no longer available to me. As the ship had been attacked and destroyed while I was docked.

More recently when playing the campaign with PMC unfriendly I docked at a station with healthy shields. As soon as I undocked I was under fire from some PMC fighters that had wandered over while I was in the station. I exploded instantly.
These are two different scenarios. The first may have existed in very early versions of the game but was long since fixed if so. The second isn't that your ship is vulnerable while you're docked; it's that it happened to be in a very bad place the moment you undocked! That's not a bug, it's just bad (or unlucky) timing.
Ravenstar wrote:4. Surely there's some way to deal with clipping without making it framerate dependent?
It's not about "clipping", it's about physics and collision detection. Those are relatively "expensive" tasks in a game, particularly if you try to interpolate between frames. If there was a workable solution to this, I can assure you we'd have implemented it by now.

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Post by radcapricorn » Wed, 25. Oct 17, 01:09

CBJ wrote: It's not about "clipping", it's about physics and collision detection. Those are relatively "expensive" tasks in a game, particularly if you try to interpolate between frames. If there was a workable solution to this, I can assure you we'd have implemented it by now.
In that case, can you at least fix the physics updates that happen during "legitimate" in-game pauses like quick-saves and docking/undocking? I personally have reported it long ago, and there was no reply.
That problem alone leads to various in-game problems:
- a "hiccup" caused by e.g. saving the game may lead to an enemy going through the station and ending up inside it
- friendlies start "shooting" that enemy, obviously hitting the station instead
- station starts shooting back, and its' faction's ships become hostile to the "attackers"
- general mayhem in zone ensues

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Post by CBJ » Wed, 25. Oct 17, 02:17

I can't promise we can fix it, but I will point the relevant person in this direction so that they are at least aware of it. :)

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Post by RainerPrem » Wed, 25. Oct 17, 06:03

CBJ wrote:I can't promise we can fix it, but I will point the relevant person in this direction so that they are at least aware of it. :)
Hi,

I wonder if it's possible to suspend collision detection for one second, when there were a hundred or so collisions in the last seconds. This is what normally happens, when I'm caught in a nook. OTOH with enough patience I managed to leave again the last times that happened.

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Post by CBJ » Wed, 25. Oct 17, 10:26

Suspending collision detection would make the problem worse, because it would make it more likely that you'd end up stuck inside something in the first place. Again, I can assure you we have looked long and hard, and will continue to look, for solutions to problems like this, and implement them if and when we find them.

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Post by Ravenstar » Wed, 25. Oct 17, 10:55

Here's a video demonstrating the problem. I've turned on the Frame Rate counter in Steam.

https://youtu.be/5oauR1pqcWs

How to I upload the save file?
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Post by radcapricorn » Wed, 25. Oct 17, 11:41

CBJ wrote:I can't promise we can fix it, but I will point the relevant person in this direction so that they are at least aware of it. :)
Thank you!

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Post by Ravenstar » Wed, 25. Oct 17, 12:27

On the plus side - I now have several more freighters. I camped in Serpentine Driveway in order to improve my rep with No Limits and I had two Titurels and about 3 Rahanses come in. All from the Sovreign Syndicate.

I capped them all with the exception of one Rhanas where my fleet got a little trigger happy.

Sadly I only got the rep from -22 to -21 though. lol
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Post by Ezarkal » Wed, 25. Oct 17, 14:24

I think capturing ships does not improve the rep, while blowing enemy stuff near stations does. So you sadly have to chose between capping the ships or improving your rep.

There's are easier ways to do it, though. I'll put it as a spoiler in case you'd rather find out by yourself.
Spoiler
Show
-Go into a zone where there's a No Limit station and a station from other factions. Accept a mission to defend the other station. Collect the reputation from the kills with both factions. (Losing negative reputation should be pretty fast this way)

-Just go in the station's mass traffic. Some of these tiny ships will be labeled as "enemy" or as "sovereign syndicate". Find them, blow them up and watch your rep rise. Just make sure you don't kill NL ships by mistake.

There are more ways, but these two should be fairly straightforward
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Post by MrFiction » Fri, 27. Oct 17, 13:49

After 100+ hours I can relate to some of the issues the OP brought op and have a few new ones:

- The wobbly ship happens almost every time I undock. Maybe related to playing with a gamepad?

- Large traders with a jump drive and enough fuel (!) decide to fly from Maelstrom through Torride to HoL. Because they don't jump they usually get destroyed somewhere in Torride

- Not a complaint but something I noticed: HoL is awesome and the weapons are extremely OP. Switching between a modded railgun and a modded plasma cannon MK3 allows you to fire one while the other cools of. You can take out any capital ship with just these two powerful weapons.

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Post by RAVEN.myst » Fri, 27. Oct 17, 14:17

MrFiction wrote: - The wobbly ship happens almost every time I undock.
Is this mainly with Rahanas and Sul/Light Sul? On those ships, because of the narrow "front-loader" docking bay, it's really easy to start bouncing around, and to me the problem is more the "bounce" on collision than anything else - and if the capital ship being undocked from starts any manoeuvre at the same time... mayhem!
MrFiction wrote:- Large traders with a jump drive and enough fuel (!) decide to fly from Maelstrom through Torride to HoL. Because they don't jump they usually get destroyed somewhere in Torride
They take that route because it's the most direct, and ships have to "walk" through gates, they can't jump to or past them - the jumpdrive only carries the (capital) ships to an adjacent/linked sector, and a long trip can take many jumps, with gate traversals thrown in along the way (at inter-system travel points.)
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