What is currently used for factory chain delivery?

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Timsup2nothin
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Post by Timsup2nothin » Wed, 15. Nov 17, 22:12

jlehtone wrote: The CLS2 is configurable. Player can set it to unload whatever amount. Player can implement limits with the waypoints. Therefore, CLS2 does not need the Dockware.

Does it, Tim?
Correct. The CLS2 "unload up to" command limits the amount it will unload. If you want your PHQ to stock 10,000 e-cells, tell your CLS2 pilot "unload up to 10000 e-cells." That's that.
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Triaxx2
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Post by Triaxx2 » Wed, 15. Nov 17, 23:25

I find your OCD a bit amusing. I drug all the asteroids in the sector northwest of Xenon 534 into position so all the rock sides faced the gate and then connected them as a single complex. So it looks like a wall of asteroids when you jump into the sector.
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Reven
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Post by Reven » Thu, 16. Nov 17, 02:05

Timsup2nothin wrote:
jlehtone wrote: The CLS2 is configurable. Player can set it to unload whatever amount. Player can implement limits with the waypoints. Therefore, CLS2 does not need the Dockware.

Does it, Tim?
Correct. The CLS2 "unload up to" command limits the amount it will unload. If you want your PHQ to stock 10,000 e-cells, tell your CLS2 pilot "unload up to 10000 e-cells." That's that.
Seeing as the script checks to see how much room there is on the destination before it unloads anyway I also added in support for dockware on my install. It was an easy tweak. However I wish I had read your reply before doing it - I had missed the "unload up to" capability and probably wouldn't have bothered if I'd known about it.
Triaxx2 wrote:I find your OCD a bit amusing....
Oh, I haven't owned up to the half of it. I really miss the fact that X3R would snap station positioning to 50m increments because I could position them precisely. Since I tend to have little compunction scripting myself capabilities that I assess as being possible to do in the fictional setting, and because dragging is too imprecise for me (maybe no one else knows, but /I/ know it's off by 13m) and also since you can't change rotation after placement I write my own little reposition and rotation scripts to do my alignments. My X3R XL SPP chains are set up with all the feed stations aligned along a pentagonal cylinder with all docking ports rotated to the interior. The SPP is the cap on one side, the silicon mine the cap on the other.

I ported the patrol single sector script from X3R into X3AP so I could control the exact patrol paths of ships in my sectors. I won't mention my other neuroses - the voices are telling me not to. ;)

It's actually nice to know I'm not the only one who gets a bit neurotic about some of this.

EDIT: I've been meaning to ask, when I was checking to see why the CLS ships didn't use jump beacons I noticed some support in the code for what looks like a wider set of pilot "capabilities". The CLS code is set up to take advantage of jump beacons but the ability looks like it's turned off unless the pilot is a "navigator". I don't see anywhere that actually turns this on. I also see some evidence of certain features in the CLS code that are actively turned off in the signed plugin version. Is there another non-signed version that is more feature rich?
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Timsup2nothin
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Post by Timsup2nothin » Thu, 16. Nov 17, 02:28

I think the unsigned version has developed quite a bit beyond when it got signed, but I cannot say for sure.
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Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

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Post by RAVEN.myst » Thu, 16. Nov 17, 02:34

Reven wrote:I still want to use a ship I can't necessarily land on as a storage warehouse ..., so I employed CLS2 but I just discovered that CLS2 doesn't honor the maximums set with dockware.
Using the "unload up to" command will allow you to set a limit to how much the CLS2 will deposit - essentially you're setting a ware-limit from the freighter's side, rather than on the receiving side - I've never seen CLS2 fail to honour it.

Here's one way I use it, just to provide an illustrative example:
- I have an M8 docked at my Hub
- Instead of allocating Tomahawks to the Hub, I use a TM with CLS2 to collect them
- I have it set to "buy up to 200" - this means that it will buy as many as it takes to get it to 200 aboard the TM
- It then "unloads up to 150" to my M8 - this results in the M8 always having 150 (assuming sufficient supply available), and never being overloaded
- In X3AP, I would also have the TM handle the M8's Mosquitoes in the same fashion - would, say, "buy up to 200" and "unload up to 60", for example

The above (hopefully) illustrates how the limits are used in two ways: to cap how much a CLS2 will carry, and to cap the CLS2's destination's stock level of a ware.
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Triaxx2
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Post by Triaxx2 » Thu, 16. Nov 17, 06:13

This is getting into mod territory which the mods don't like for some reason, but CLS1, 2, and CAG are all parts of Lucike's Script Collection, written by Lucike a german modder and then translated to english and included as part of the Bonus Pack. The full collection includes an improved mining script called Prospector, a free-flight Economy and Supply Trader that can be turned loose in an area and naturally boost the economy. An extremely complex and powerful carrier command script called CODEA that can manage your fighters and turn carriers into something useful instead of glorified loot wagons. MEFOS which is a turret control script.

Navigators are part of his personnel mod and their presence aboard CAG's CLS and some other types of ship will allow them to utilize the Jump Beacons from his mod. Don't want to fly from Heretic's End every single time? Drop a jump beacon and any ship equipped with a Navigator can jump straight to it. Engineer's can provide your large ships with a small speed boost, giving an advantage over enemies.

Also included is an enhanced patrol script capable of both patrolling multiple points within a sector, but also if properly setup, jumping across the galaxy to either save your CLS ships, or if that fails, to potentially retrieve the pilots and allow you to save their experience.

It's altogether too powerful for standard use which is why only those three were added to the Bonus Pack, as far as I know.
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Post by jlehtone » Thu, 16. Nov 17, 21:13

Mods don't like confusion. On the Forum dedicated to the vanilla games anything non-vanilla -- including the older, superceded versions of the same games -- is a recipe for confusion.

Surely the vanilla game has enough material in itself to produce barely tolerable amount of confusion? (Not counting the UFO Base.)


The vanilla game is the baseline that everyone can access and therefore should know. Everything else (in the S&M Fora) can then be compared to the baseline with relative ease.
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Triaxx2
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Post by Triaxx2 » Fri, 17. Nov 17, 00:55

You know, that's the first time anyone's ever bothered give an explanation. Thank you, it actually make's sense.
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Fri, 17. Nov 17, 02:24

Ah, the UFO Base... It hasn't come up in conversation in quite a while, now... I still get a kick every time I come across one of them spinning flying saucers (they remind me quite strongly of Daleks' ships.)
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Post by bbn » Fri, 17. Nov 17, 12:51

Timsup2nothin wrote:I think the unsigned version has developed quite a bit beyond when it got signed, but I cannot say for sure.
That's correct. I just upgraded to the unsigned version (of both CLS and CAG) and there are lot's of improvements made. What is very visible is that user interface is much better, especially with regards to setting up and modifying the waypoints.

Also, what is a selling point for me of struggling with my rusty german language is the ability of CAG/CLS pilots to use jump beacons (both player dropped and those that are already present in some sectors). Too bad that you should use also other mods (that introduce navigators), but it is easy enough to remove a few conditions from movement scripts (so now I have jump-beacon aware pilots without extra mods). Note, that without modifications to scrips or using other (navigator) scripts the pilots exhibit strange behaviour in sectors with jump beacons - they jump straight to the center of the sector.

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Post by Nanook » Fri, 17. Nov 17, 21:00

Ok, let's get back to vanilla conversations, please. We don't want some mod to come around and lock this thread. :wink: :wink:
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Post by Triaxx2 » Sat, 18. Nov 17, 13:20

I'd be happy to continue over on the S&M forum or in PM, so the mods don't get grumpy.
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Post by Reven » Wed, 6. Dec 17, 01:51

@RAVEN.Myst et al: Thanks again for the factory stacking tip. I have found a solution that balances both my OCD inherent desire for order and my desire for easy (less time consuming) solutions. I started a stack of different factories. At first it didn't look all that bad, but after three different types was was beginning to look a frankenstation and felt like an exploit. So I came up with this: a "hollowed" out asteroid to hold all the stations:


[ external image ]
A SPP & Silicon mine positioned to look joined


The SPP exactly faces the sun, the silicon mine is rotated and positioned so that its surface structure just meshes with the SPP making it look like the SPP is attached, and all rest of the factories are neatly inside the asteroid (ie: hollowed out to house them). OCD neatness, check. Attractive (to me anyway), check. Doesn't feel like an exploit by breaking the reasonable "willing suspension of disbelief", check.
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RAVEN.myst
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Wed, 6. Dec 17, 02:05

Reven wrote:... my OCD inherent desire for order and my desire for easy (less time consuming) solutions.
You sound like me :D
Reven wrote:I started a stack of different factories. ... felt like an exploit.
Yes, I eventually stopped stacking them for a similar reason. I think I was starting to expect them to turn into a blue phone booth...
Reven wrote: The SPP exactly faces the sun, the silicon mine is rotated and positioned so that its surface structure just meshes with the SPP making it look like the SPP is attached, and all rest of the factories are neatly inside the asteroid (ie: hollowed out to house them). OCD neatness, check. Attractive (to me anyway), check. Doesn't feel like an exploit by breaking the reasonable "willing suspension of disbelief", check.
Very nice! :) I wonder whether the asteroid provides actual protection for the some of the stations, too...
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Reven
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Post by Reven » Wed, 6. Dec 17, 04:52

RAVEN.myst wrote: I wonder whether the asteroid provides actual protection for the some of the stations, too...
The asteroid isn't a vanilla asteroid, it's a silicon mine - I used the mine superstructure to link it to the SPP. But yes, I think the asteroid/mine does offer protection. I noticed the first station I put inside didn't trigger collision with the mine, even before I joined them with a complex construction kit. This makes sense, actually. The station was fully inside, and the asteroid part of the mine model is, of course, hollow. So since the inner station didn't touch any of the outer asteroid mesh, no collision detection. And since the inner station is fully engulfed, any external collision of weapons fire would definitely be intercepted by the asteroid. So yes, the asteroid provides protection.
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jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Wed, 6. Dec 17, 13:40

In sector. OOS, there is no collision.

Another question is, what is expendable? Any regular station you can rebuild in vanilla, but not the Mines (nor the ones you can get only by boarding NPC TLs).
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