So this wasn't my best idea

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Sat, 2. Dec 17, 22:19

I started a new game (AP) and didn't really have any thoughts on what I wanted to do. I figured I would just set out to roll through the first plot, collecting my favorite scout ship, the cool M3, and the Centaur for my troubles, and then sort out what to do. Go through quickly and not get sidetracked or committed to any trading activities until later. Maybe even make an 'alternative start' game save out of it.

So I'm barely into this at all when up pops a ship return mission that turns out to be, of all things, a Cerburus! Needless to say, no, I am not going to bring back your frigate for eighteen thousand credits or whatever the ridiculous number is. But, what the heck am I gonna do with it? Normally I would leap on this as just the ten million plus credits that can start a trading empire on the right foot, but I am still well short of being interested in starting a trading empire. Having 14 million credits just sitting around never appeals to me, so selling it doesn't have any appeal.

Well, I can finish the plot like I set out to do, and then when I sit down to figure out what to do after I'll have the three ships I intended to have and also a frigate of my very own to tool around in! Just need to fix it up. That would be an even better 'alternative start' game save!

What was I thinking?

Grinding missions at early game payoff rates intending to REPAIR a frigate is perhaps the dumbest idea I've ever had. It's like having a financial black hole docked at the shipyard, and that's not even considering that I not only can't afford shielding, it isn't available anywhere and probably won't be unless I set up some sort of supply chain for the heavy shield fab. And the freakin' guns are gonna cost as much as fixing the hull!

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » Sun, 3. Dec 17, 00:27

Yar me hearty, if it be credits ye be needing, a piratin' ye should go. Them's shiny squinty ships do sell for quite the tidy sums.

Translation, Demeters sell well, especially if you want lots of credits, and a way to gain back presumably Argon Reputation. Cloudbase South West is a great place to hunt.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Sun, 3. Dec 17, 00:58

Triaxx2 wrote:Yar me hearty, if it be credits ye be needing, a piratin' ye should go. Them's shiny squinty ships do sell for quite the tidy sums.

Translation, Demeters sell well, especially if you want lots of credits, and a way to gain back presumably Argon Reputation. Cloudbase South West is a great place to hunt.

I actually have a mountain of Argon rep, so I've been thinking I'd mix some pirating Argons in Paranid space in with my mission grinding. But pirating on the level that I'm currently equipped to do isn't really that much of a money maker.

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Sun, 3. Dec 17, 01:57

So, what you got yourself is a nice, hefty restoration project, like an old car (now there's a financial black hole for you!) I was going to suggest "why not savour it and take your time?" but it seems redundant, as I don't think you'll have much choice about it... Hmmm, another thought occurs to me: actually USE it in its underequipped states, and get to enjoy as the thing slowly blooms - so, you could put some 200MJ shields on it for now, and slap on whatever guns you can get your hands on. You still have the docking bays and the cargo hold at your disposal, and since it sounds like you intend to keep it, you no doubt already maxed out its speed and handling. It could be like living in a place and gradually renovating it, watching it and feeling it improving over time.

Interestingly, this tracks with a thought I recently had: oddly enough, I was ruing the fact that when after the first couple of ships, be they fighters or freighters, I never get to experience that gradual growth of my personal ship - I save up enough (credits, marines, whatever...), then I buy or "buy" it, send it to a couple of unique locations for equipment while a CLS2 (assuming I don't yet have HQ or EqD or such) does some shopping runs, and I don't even SEE the ship until it's fully blinged out - there's no transition, no "maturation" to enjoy. Nevertheless, I will NOT invest in a new class of ship prematurely, and by so doing I deprive myself of this period of transformation (the only time I really do get to experience this sort of thing are in pure-pirate playthroughs.) So I say, you might want try to shift your thinking paradigm, to enjoy something unfamiliar.

If pirating's your thing, by the way, knocking over some military transports around Hatikvah's Faith could well end up getting you the bits and bobs you need for that ship, shields included (whenever I scan one of those and see it packed with capital-grade shields, I see in my mind's eye a flashing "jackpot!!" sign

)

Killjaeden · Post by **Killjaeden** » Sun, 3. Dec 17, 03:19

Timsup2nothin wrote:But pirating on the level that I'm currently equipped to do isn't really that much of a money maker.

M4 with freightscanner and some guns, M3 if you want to be on the safe side.... paired with transport with special command software but preferably transporter device and you're set.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Sun, 3. Dec 17, 03:28

Killjaeden wrote:
Timsup2nothin wrote:But pirating on the level that I'm currently equipped to do isn't really that much of a money maker.
M4 with freightscanner and some guns, M3 if you want to be on the safe side.... paired with transport with special command software but preferably transporter device and you're set.

Well, yeah, generally speaking. Problem is that the economy is in that early game 'doldrum' period. There aren't many factories that are actually producing anything yet, but it's been long enough that the early buy ups by the tech gatherers have either reached their destination docks or been lost in transit. I can fly the length of pirate alley scanning everything that crosses my path, and other than giving me a way to resolve my hunger for cahoonaburgers it really doesn't do much for me.

Can't steal what isn't being carried, and the bulky but cheap goods just don't scratch the itch deep enough. I'm muddling along though.

@Raven...that might be a plan. Maybe I'll stop dumping credits into hull repairs and pick up some 200MJ shielding and fly it around.

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Sun, 3. Dec 17, 04:15

Good luck, and have fun!

My thinking with this notion is that this way, as you go along, you put what you can into the restoration, and so you may appreciate and enjoy the improvement every time you spend on some repairs - as you replace the spark-plugs, put in new tail-lights, change the tyres, etc...

So every time you spend on hull repairs, you get rewarded with a little speed improvement, instead of it feeling like a bottomless money pit. And every time you either score or buy a 1GJ shield or a FAA to replace a HEPT (which possibly previously took the place of a PAC, even) or whatever, you get to enjoy the sensation of an upgrade - small, to be sure, but many of them.

It may recapture the feeling of the early-game fighter or freighter, getting its speed and cargo upgrades done inch by inch, adding a 5MJ shield to that 1MJ, then another, then replacing that original one with a 25MJ perhaps... filling the weapon bank with IREs, then splashing out to upgrade a pair of those to PACs... well, you get the idea, I'm sure - only difference: now doing the same sort of thing with a capital ship, thus on a grander scale.

I admit I'm somewhat envious at this point - my (already planned) upcoming pirate playthrough just got bumped up a place or two, methinks...

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » Sun, 3. Dec 17, 15:15

If that's the case, take your Cerberus and fighter of choice and head for Haktikvah's Faith. Lots of cross traffic, but the thing you're really looking for are Paranid's heading north. Some of the Tech traders will be carrying disproportionately valuable Tractor Beams. Those will be a thing you can sell for a lot of fast cash, even if you keep one of the 8 you're almost guaranteed to get from even a ship destruction.

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Sun, 3. Dec 17, 15:50

That's my favourite sector, too, for that sort of thing. Among the things I get there regularly: MANY missiles of various kinds, literally hundreds of IREs, dozens of PACs, pairs of IonDs, quartets of MDs, TONS of MD ammo, shields of all sizes (these are much less common than guns), PRGs, occasionally HEPTs (but very rare, I find), occasional FAAs, PPCs, GCs, and others I don't remember. When I play as a pure pirate, this is also where I get my satellites - they never get jettisoned by transports, but on those occasions when the freighter carrying them either bails, or is a TM and I board it, they seem to reliably stay in the hold. I have faith in Hatikvah's ability to supply me

But I suspect none of the above is really news to anyone...

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » Sun, 3. Dec 17, 22:14

I've never actually seen ships with Sats bail with them, but it might be an AP change. So yup, totally news to me.

Best part about having a capital around is you can keep pirating until that's full, instead of whatever fighter you're flying around.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Mon, 4. Dec 17, 20:40

So, first thing, thanks to all for the advice and encouragement. Now for an update.

The Cerburus, at this point, is sort of like a big TM, only slower and clumsier.

It's got guns in every bank, so if it is swarmed by gnats it can shoot at them. However most of the banks aren't full, and the two that are full are full of IREs, so if it is swarmed by anything bigger than gnats it may be a problem. 800MJ of shielding makes for a better than average defense on a corvette, but on a target the size of a barn it doesn't really hold up well.

This isn't too bad though, since I wouldn't be trying to fight much in a TM either. And it is definitely shifting my gameplay into a less well worn path (okay, out of the usual rut). I'm doing a lot more fighting in the spiffy Nova Prototype than usual, and that's a plus.

Normally it is just as easy to call in the Centaur and send the TM to run errands, so the Nova becomes a piece of baggage along for the ride while the Centaur is my heavy lifter. But the Cerberus is singularly not suited for errand running. I also don't have an actual TM yet because my usual marine training path has been delayed for lack of funding.

So the Centaur gets the scut work like picking up jump fuel, gathering up laser towers, dropping off the passengers, etc. The extra speed of the Nova is nice, and the relative fragility has put more excitement into the same old plot line battles than I have seen in quite a few plays.

So, I'm satisfied. The hull is up to 62% thanks to a ship recovery that turned out to be a Viper and some other odds and ends that gave me a combined windfall over five million. And my lone CLS freighter is energetically supplying a heavy shield fab without any supervision, so the little lizard isn't annoying me. I'm keeping 1.2 million on hand for the blessed day when she picks up four 1GJ shields for me and I can stop worrying so much about bumping into things.

Maybe by the time I reach the dreaded 'cap a Xenon' mission I'll be able to just jump the frigate into Xenon sectors and fly around with the flack cannons blazing until I get one! That would be different.

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » Mon, 4. Dec 17, 21:21

Grab some fighter drones for the Cerberus, in case anything too big shows up. While one gun bank of IRE's might not discourage anything too big, 40-60 of them is enough to keep a capital ship pre-occupied long enough to escape.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Mon, 4. Dec 17, 21:29

Triaxx2 wrote:Grab some fighter drones for the Cerberus, in case anything too big shows up. While one gun bank of IRE's might not discourage anything too big, 40-60 of them is enough to keep a capital ship pre-occupied long enough to escape.

That's a thought. I'm mostly taking the same approach I would take in a TM...if jumping in my fighter won't solve the problem I just jump, period. But I do have a very extensive cargo bay to work with, so maybe a drone swarm would be interesting. Fighter drones are sort of expensive though, said the guy who is still looking for another ten million in hull repairs.

I've also developed a pretty large stockpile of assorted missiles. Since I have so much space the only things I've been selling off are Terran missiles I can't launch and the Firelances that seem to have no function whatsoever under any circumstance. So I shoot missiles at things sort of randomly. I'm learning some stuff about missiles.

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Tue, 5. Dec 17, 02:44

Timsup2nothin wrote:And it is definitely shifting my gameplay into a less well worn path (okay, out of the usual rut). I'm doing a lot more fighting in the spiffy Nova Prototype than usual, and that's a plus.
...
So, I'm satisfied.

Glad to hear you're enjoying yourself

Timsup2nothin wrote:The Cerburus, at this point, is sort of like a big TM, only slower and clumsier.

This is what I envisioned, for the start (I didn't realise the hull was QUITE as banged up as it must have bee, given you now have it UP to 62%!

) And while it's currently fragile and not in fighting trim, that'll change, and you'll get to savour that.

Timsup2nothin wrote:Maybe by the time I reach the dreaded 'cap a Xenon' mission I'll be able to just jump the frigate into Xenon sectors and fly around with the flack cannons blazing until I get one! That would be different.

Indeed

As for drones: worth remembering that with an open landing bay (and you now have ~double the bays you would with a conventional TM, so keeping one free is considerably easier), your drones can return, which makes them a lot less expensive...

Happy hunting, and driving around in style...

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » Tue, 5. Dec 17, 03:10

Firelances are a bit of an oddity. As Dumbfire missiles, they're pretty terrible at the job you'd want most missiles to be used for. There are two places in which they're useful. One is for slamming into TS, which have tough shields, that your gun banks can't necessarily chew through, or alternately hammering into the hull after you've burnt your energy knocking down the shielding.

The other is for arming swarms of light fighters, and using them on capitals. Which seems insane, I understand, but a dozen light fighters, all firing on a capital size target are going to have quite the time actually missing, even taking the auto-pillock into account. And the capital is going to have issues hitting them with capital weapons, meaning it'll switch to it's alternates, meaning if you destroy/cap the ship, those are now cargo and thus available as booty.

Yes, missiles are extremely fun. Keep hold of any Tornadoes you get, the Cerberus will want the additional punch later.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Tue, 5. Dec 17, 03:15

It started out at 43%

I was just so excited to have it so early in the game that I kept it...but from a practical standpoint it definitely should have been sold off. It was, no kidding, my very first ship recovery mission.

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Tue, 5. Dec 17, 04:30

Timsup2nothin wrote:...but from a practical standpoint it definitely should have been sold off.

Sure, perhaps from a purely mathematical perspective - but if you're enjoying a game with a different spin, I'd say what you did was the better call

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Tue, 5. Dec 17, 04:39

Practical=/= better.

I just equipped everything with docking computers, so I am feeling pretty good about things right now.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Sat, 9. Dec 17, 19:46

Update: This is actually going really well.

My little Teladi minion is en route to the heavy shield fab that she has been supplying to pick up my four 1GJ shields at average price. I just checked her CLS info and her current profits are about a hundred thousand credits short of the cost of the shields. With 2000 e-cells and 250 ore on board that's very close to a break even, so free shields for all! Well, actually just for me, but you get the point I'm sure. What to do next with a Vulture Hauler and a pilot that is close to busting the logistician barrier is an open question.

I've collected all the goods for the Beryl. One of my CLS apprentice minions has them loaded on the Centaur and docked at their place. All I have to do is fly out there in a fast ship and take command of the delivery. In a masterpiece of timing, while the Centaur was making the long trudge I was doing a patrol mission and managed to disable one of the Xenon.

I'm *not* just keeping it because I know the plot, it is a valuable and unique relic that I would have kept anyway. While that may sound like BS, the first time I ever did the plot I actually did have the necessary ship just sitting around at a military outpost, so I always feel justified.

Once I get out to Beryl-ville and wrap up that business I will be sinking all my credits into hull repairs...the gift that keeps on giving...or maybe the drain that keeps on leaking...whatever. I'm still not well or fully armed, but my fight rank hasn't even reached the point where my current "hard" patrol is even generating corvettes so the banged up Cerberus has been way more than sufficient for the tasks.

Oh...and even with the financial distraction my gang of really crappy plot supplied marines is coming along. I gave them enough training that they could successfully breach a hull and hack a core, and enough engineering to avoid complete destruction, then snatchad a couple of traitorous corporate TMs that were hauling Argon technology into Paranid space. Emphasis on avoiding "complete" destruction. My total take was one PAC that got ejected before the fight even started and two shattered hulls worth a total of about 350,000 credits. My boarding crew got a good bump in their fighting skills and I dumped them at a military outpost for another million credits worth of engineering training, so hopefully their next mission will pay me back.

RAVEN.myst · Post by **RAVEN.myst** » Sat, 9. Dec 17, 20:44

Timsup2nothin wrote:What to do next with a Vulture Hauler and a pilot that is close to busting the logistician barrier is an open question.

I'll sleep on that and maybe dream an inspiration

Timsup2nothin wrote: In a masterpiece of timing, while the Centaur was making the long trudge I was doing a patrol mission and managed to disable one of the Xenon.

Lucky timing!

Timsup2nothin wrote:I'm *not* just keeping it because I know the plot, it is a valuable and unique relic that I would have kept anyway. While that may sound like BS, the first time I ever did the plot I actually did have the necessary ship just sitting around at a military outpost, so I always feel justified.

No need to convince me

- whenever I capture a Xenon ship that I don't yet have, I keep it for later research, so on those rare occasions that I have one before I need it for Beryl, I have it on hand. (The analogous situation when playing as Terran doesn't hold true - I sell off any early Novas, as I in fact did in my current game, even though I know that I will hurt from it later - but my roleplay dictates that I turn over captured Argon ships to the Mars shipyard for their forensics to go through the GPS data and the like for the intelligence boys. At least the high command offer bonuses for such useful finds...)

Sounds like you're having fun

And here's a thought to use/not use: you have yourself a pretty decent carrier for the early game, so you could also opt to play as a wing commander, if you so choose (this option would likely both mitigate the damaged-hull mobility AND prolong it, of course...) This also leads to another possibility - leisurely, moderate-volume smuggling of contraband without having to run blockades at breakneck speeds... Mobile homes/recreational vehicles are so versatile!

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So this wasn't my best idea

So this wasn't my best idea