Particle Horizon Question

[Hank001]

After reading the posts here and seeing all the research at local U trying to find where extra photons appearing through the slits are coming from, and my own experience in astormony I have came to the concusion that at some point these questions pass from physics and into the realm of philosophy and perhaps theology. Especially since a few are giving up as well saying it's showing our human limitations in how we perceive reality that are skewing are data. In otherwords we must ask the question, can we even form the correct questions? (In my words they are "Copping Out") This happens most when the obseved data fails to prove their thoery. I personally think this is a Darwinistic way to cull the least out of the debate. Obseve how the universe really works and if it doesn't match what you expect it to, it's not the universes fault. The universe goes on quite well and could care less what you think. Of course it takes some experts decades to come to this conclusion, and when they do some simply dismiss it. I have found few physical principles that exceede the pure motive force of achademic hubris.

[Bishop149]

Yes, the particle horizon would move if you did what you suggested. The reason this isn't actually a problem is because what you suggested is impossible--you can't travel faster than light, after all.

Ok, how exactly do wormholes factor into all of this.
In my very limited understanding of such things things moving faster than light is not necessarily impossible, there are a number of theoretical means by which it might happen, a wormhole being one.
When physics does tend to break however is when "information" can travel faster than light, and hence most of those theoretical things tend to also have something implicit in the mechanism that scrambles any kind of coherent info that might be transmitted.

So what about a wormhole, suppose one existed and you flew your spaceship formed of nicely and distinctly organised matter into it. . . . . would you emerge a random collection of matter and energy?

[Hank001]

Does light travel faster than light?
Some theory is in abeyance until a platform moving a X velocity shoots a beam of light towards a like beam shot from another platform traveling towards the first at the same velocity. Most say relativity says the added velocity won't matter. The closing velocties will still be at the speed of light. The ones crying "That's impossible" can set out there at the covergence point and measure it themselves. Then tell me what the outcome was. As for black holes, worm holes and their relation to the topic? Put them in the same category friend. "Things you can speculate about, but shouldn't be crazy enough to want to go out and gather data on." Yet until someone does, and survives to report the results, I'll stay on the fence.

[brucewarren]

Not a wormhole fan.

Assuming you managed to find one bigger than an atom across I think the loss of information would be the least of your worries. You'd be torn apart by the tidal forces before you even got close. Whether or not your lifeless corpse managed to make it through at that point would be rather moot.

[Observe]

So what about a wormhole, suppose one existed and you flew your spaceship formed of nicely and distinctly organised matter into it. . . . . would you emerge a random collection of matter and energy?

It's an interesting question that speaks to whether any proof may exist of previous universe incarnations. If the figurative spaceship emerges (new universe analogy), will it have some evidence of its previous structure?

[Hank001]

Tell me if said spaceship meets itself coming and going. I think I've seen this in Disney's 80's movie "Black Hole".

Another case where too much conjectural data is used to form other conjecture. Until we're there to gather data all we have is obervational data at most. Going back to the question, "What are we seeing and are we interpretating it correctly?"

[Observe]

Going back to the question, "What are we seeing and are we interpreting it correctly?"

Perhaps even more fundamental, is the the nature of thoughts that gives rise to these questions. Is it we who does the thinking, or are we observing something called "thought" and falsely considering it to be our own? Perhaps it is thought that is stopping us from seeing things "correctly".

[Morkonan]

Yes, the particle horizon would move if you did what you suggested. The reason this isn't actually a problem is because what you suggested is impossible--you can't travel faster than light, after all.

Ok, how exactly do wormholes factor into all of this.
In my very limited understanding of such things things moving faster than light is not necessarily impossible, there are a number of theoretical means by which it might happen, a wormhole being one....
So what about a wormhole, suppose one existed and you flew your spaceship formed of nicely and distinctly organised matter into it. . . . . would you emerge a random collection of matter and energy?

You wouldn't be traveling faster than light. Instead, you'd simply be traveling along a relatively shorter path to your destination. It's a "shortcut." There's also another issue - The amount of energy to make it big enough so a spaceship or human could safely fit in it... might be far too great to even consider. Maybe usable for some other form of communication/transfer? /shrug

Traveling in "real space" at FTL "might" be possible using a... "Warp Drive." (Wiki - Alcubierre Drive

However, even if all the exotic and crazy stuff was available to actually construct such a thing, one problem that exists is that it may not be possible to actually "steer" it anywhere. You'd simply press the button and "go that way" until it was shut off... if it could be shut off. I wonder if it would leave a "wake." (One reason for the "railroad-like" solution.) So, it might be something, like an AI, would have to suffer the long travel and construction time of a suitable railroad to a place before humans could ever hope to visit it.

... trying to find where extra photons appearing through the slits are coming from..

Their aren't any extra photons. What is measured depends on how one measures it... wave&particle duality / complementarity

[Hank001]

Bingo! You've nailed the new questions being tossed around the physics teaching circles. "Are we teaching philosophy?"

[Morkonan]

Bingo! You've nailed the new questions being tossed around the physics teaching circles. "Are we teaching philosophy?"

There's a pretty big connection between such things and "Philosophy." Though, more in using certain philosophic principles as points of experimentation.

At the end of the day, an experimenter or theorist can say "how" something works, but when trying to answer "why," the only real recourse is to start talking "Philosophy." Or, at least leaning very heavily on that.

There's no doubt that all this science is "real." It effects us. It can be measured, mostly. It has predictive value. Mostly... But, reality itself, the much broader picture of everything, may not be "real." It might be something radically different than what we actually experience as being real.

All of that shouldn't be too unsettling, in my opinion. We just have to concern ourselves with what really matters right now. If there's another side to all this, we may never know or, perhaps, we'll only know when all of this no longer matters to us.

[Observe]

You can’t survive a passage into a black hole … or can you?

the expansion of the universe counteracts the amplification caused by time dilation inside the black hole, and for certain situations, cancels it entirely. In those cases – specifically, smooth non-rotating black holes with a large electrical charge, so-called Reissner-Nordström-de Sitter black holes – an observer could survive passing through the Cauchy horizon and into a non-deterministic world.

More food for thought...

[Hank001]

Believe it or not, no. Or, believe it or not, yes. A bit of both. According to theory to the outside observer yes, you'd die. Strung into a line of atoms. However to the traveler, time would dilate to near infinity. A moment stretching on... Painful thought really, think I'll skip that tour. Talk about time dragging on. Ouch. Pertetual bordom.

[UniTrader]

You can’t survive a passage into a black hole … or can you?

the expansion of the universe counteracts the amplification caused by time dilation inside the black hole, and for certain situations, cancels it entirely. In those cases – specifically, smooth non-rotating black holes with a large electrical charge, so-called Reissner-Nordström-de Sitter black holes – an observer could survive passing through the Cauchy horizon and into a non-deterministic world.

More food for thought...

thats a naked singularity. nobody likes naked singularities.

[brucewarren]

You guys go on ahead. Don't mind me. I'll just wait back here.