new cockpit ineriors :/ build on the fp player aspect PLEAAASE

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Rei Ayanami
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Post by Rei Ayanami » Thu, 22. Feb 18, 01:13

nithilak wrote:assuming you are a dev, thats a pretty lame excuse,,maybe you neeed more material pumping artists

no offense of course, im a die hard fan and am sure i always will be.

planet side action has been desired since xbtf x-tension and shot down by devs and ultimately the uber die hard fans they landed in the very beginning, dont really expect to see it,
[...]
im merely talking about this, just a few enhancements to what already exists.
Considering you're calling this "just a few enhancements" i think you don't understand how much effort, time and money it already takes to implement the space aspect of one current-gen X game, let alone how much it would take to implement a planetary walking system that a) is interesting b) doesn't end up in a big copypaste job/ultra-generic procedurally generated stuff aka No mans sky/Elite Dangerous c) while everything in the universe still gets calculated.

About your first-person-shooter ideas:
Many companies struggle to make a working, interesting and engaging first-person shooter alone, despite working for years on them. Egosoft never developed a first-person shooter before, they'd have to split up their teams, so less people for the space part (which means more bugs, less features, less complete), and the other half of Egosoft probably has never developed a competent first-person shooter before. Do you think that'd work out well?

Also : Yes, walking on plantets would be nice, but what good is a 10 billion square miles planet when it doesn't have anything interesting? Again, NMS and ED come to mind. You'd actually have to find a way to make planets interesting to make it worth implementing them. Every game so far which has tried to implement planetary walking in their space sims failed miserably to make every planet and every area of it interesting and not feel generic/boring/useless.

Look at Star Citizen : They promised a super-awesome space sim, with planetary landings, fps elements, living quarters, multiplayer, character creation, and whatnot. They have been developing that for 6 years, got 150+ million dollars in funding, with 330+ developers(!!!). How much actual content do they have so far that's working properly and finished? Barely anything compared to what they promised.
And you expect the only-20-people Egosoft to do the same?

I don't think that they ever not wanted to implement planetary landing stuff or even first-person-stuff.
Would i like to have planetary walking and first-person combat inside a Xenon I? Hell yes! I'd love it.
However the limiting factor is time, manpower and money. I think many people underestimate how much work it is to implement a fully simulated universe economy and space ship sim alone. Then adding competent first-person-shooter elements on top is massive amount of additional work that can't be done in just a few weeks or months, let alone with just a small dev team and, compared to other titles, probably rather humble budget.
also, since the new engine is so awesome, why not add a multi player option tot the game, allow your friend you invite to jump into your universe, or vise versa.
Not every engine, regardless of their age or awesomeness, is made for multiplayer, just like not every machine is made to swim underwater (airplanes for example are machines that don't work well underwater).
The X-game engines so far, to my knowledge, have always been specialized for single-player only. And contrary to almost every space sim game out there X games simulate almost every ship and station in the universe, at all times. That makes it extremely difficult to work in a multiplayer environment, because you'd have to keep everything (all ships, all stations, all wares, all fights, etc) in sync.

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Post by Tonsilgon » Thu, 22. Feb 18, 14:53

Some people seem to think, that "adding fps to the game" is just coding the mechanics and add some graphics.
I think what we learned from Rebirth and many other games is, that such elements have to be coded by experts with experience AND (even more important) all those stations, hangars, ships, planets have to be designed and made by hand. In a level editor. Each with its own plan, design and graphics.
Otherwise all stations look the same and you get to know the 20 different NPC-models in very short time. (Even if there are a hundred different)

Ask for example Bethesda, how much work went into all those cities and dungeons in Skyrim. How much manpower they invested in Fallouts 4 interiours and exterior design.
End even there it does not take a lot of time and you will find repetitive elements.

Of course it would be cool to land on stations and walk around in some interesting places.

My wish would be for egosoft to make some tools and graphics for building stations. Make some specifications and then start a big competition. There are a lot of users here that would invest quite some time to build some interesting interiors. And then they could add those stations to the game. Something like that.
And the station manager could then get the name of the user that designed the station ;-)

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Post by nithilak » Fri, 23. Feb 18, 05:59

agreed, in this case,, egosoft would hardly be putting anything on the line, or need to invest any thing more than some time in implementing some new features,

your a xtc mod veterain? how much time did you invest in that and how much money did it make you and what was really on the line.

the reality is that X would reach much more massive sales and have a whole lot more people logging alot more flight time in it if they picked it up on a few things that they otherwise, might as well not have even wasted the time putting thier energy into..

you dont see the redundance? it really shows in x rebirth.

very few people like or care for the ability to walk around in x rebirth, out of us veterans and newcomers alike, veterans dont see the point and most nuewcomers think the game is unfineshed and broken lol.

i know marketing and p.r., andi gotta say, egosoft has gotten alot of flack,,, just on steam alone, 38 percent out of 4568 are positive reviewss, and about half of the positive reveiws are written by people like you and i. who have been playing the x series for since the beginning, at least i have, and i wrote a good honest review on rebirth. the balance lies in the already relatively small existing x community. most newcomers feel ripped off and wont give it much a chance.

if a dev says its out of scope because they are a team of 20 with 4-5 artist, if its about time and money,, than it seems they would invest the man power and time in deving in a co-op mode or SOMETHING to put this game on the map for real. only because it would bring a 38% good reviews up to 76% good review, which is marketing you cant buy.

if they implement more into the player character and npc's, they could bring their reviews up to 87-96% positive, and that would make ground breaking sales for egosoft, but,, like you said,,,,, experience, time, sacrfice,, egosoft seems to be focused more on the sacrifice side of it

all i was saying about the models being repetitive, i meant explicitly about the ship interiors, if you notice the ship interior in the screenshot, the left and right side pannels are obviously mirriord and flipped, i understand why and all that,, but since its the freaking year 2018 i was expressing hopes that they would have a decent varitey of ship interiors,, i had said, i hope its more than just 5 or so interiors, and hopefully they arent all that narrow tunnel of an interior
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Post by nithilak » Fri, 23. Feb 18, 06:09

and i want to end with,, i will always love the x series, even if the neXt X sucks, which i know it wont, but still,, regardless, ill be there till the end, asking for things we wont get :) most likely any way,, but no one can deny, theres a larger community of people out there that just wont even give the game a chance because of its crappy reveiws.. sad but true,, sure hope egosoft can stay afloat if they keep dissapointing as much as they did with rebirth.. and im not one of the ones who dislike it,, i scratch my head alot and say,, why egosoft? why did you do that? why did you leave this thing like this? i understand its not incomplete and broken, its just, (no offense) what seems like a half ass attempt at delivering somehing that the majority of the community wanted to see in an x game,, youll always have the 20 guys that say they will abandond x if it ever gets a multiplayer option added, ABOMINATION!!! they say, but whatever,, devs in disquise trying to back themselves up as community members!! im callin you out!
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Post by Tonsilgon » Fri, 23. Feb 18, 09:29

nithilak wrote:all i was saying about the models being repetitive, i meant explicitly about the ship interiors, if you notice the ship interior in the screenshot, the left and right side pannels are obviously mirriord and flipped,
I also noticed that. But I am sure this is just because of the alpha state and those are just placeholders.
In the final game, there should be real information on those panels. Maps, Trading lists, shipstatus and so on. Real and moving information. Images from cameras in and around the ship and so on.[/quote]
nithilak wrote:i understand why and all that,, but since its the freaking year 2018 i was expressing hopes that they would have a decent varitey of ship interiors,, i had said, i hope its more than just 5 or so interiors, and hopefully they arent all that narrow tunnel of an interior
Ship Bridges should be different for most of the ships. Big ships should have impressive bridges with people working.

And please Egosoft: If you do something like that, make it more or less state of the art. Or just skip it! Please no more interiors and NPCs like in Rebirth. Those would have been "good" in Wing Commander in 1990 or "decent" in some game from 2000. But not for 2013.

If you don't have the creative ressources for decent animations, make the NPCs static. Nobody will give you any better marks because "at least you tried".

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Post by Vandragorax » Fri, 23. Feb 18, 11:39

nithilak wrote: im merely talking about this, just a few enhancements to what already exists.
You say "merely talking about" and then continue to list enough features to keep an entire dev team busy for 12-18 months AT LEAST (probably longer) lol.

Egosoft, like any game developer, need to focus on their "core gameplay loop" and make sure that it's absolutely as awesome and solid as possible. MANY games have failed over the years due to "scope creep" and other issues clouding their core gameplay loop.

(By the way you can Google "core gameplay loop" and "scope creep" if you aren't fully aware of what these phrases mean).

It's important to understand that the dev process involves many things not just "merely" writing code. There is bug tracking, status meetings, prioritisation (so some issues just get bumped down the list forever), quality assurance testing, which leads to more bugs and defects being found and time to fix them.

Then there are unexpected things like automation tests failing and needing to be fixed, downtime from getting halfway through developing things then realising you took the wrong approach and starting over again.

I mean these are just SOME of the issues faced in a project like this, it's not even by any means an exhaustive list.

It's enough already that Egosoft are building a 4x game (Think, Build, Fight, Trade) let alone if they were to also take on trying to build three other games on the top of it like Star Citizen (an FPS, an RPG, etc.).

Yes sure there are elements of each that can overlap but it's absolutely unrealistic to think that each one of those elements could be fully fleshed out and built to perfection. It would simply end up with all of them being watered down and not feeling complete. Hence my earlier point about it diluting the core gameplay.

We see evidence of this in X4 where they added all the walking about on stations, and it was pretty lacklustre and a lot of people complained that it felt pointless. This is exactly because it didn't fit within the core gameplay loop and therefore had to be bulletproof to work properly. It wasn't bulletproof and needed a lot more dev time so it felt poor.

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Post by Rei Ayanami » Fri, 23. Feb 18, 16:31

nithilak wrote:youll always have the 20 guys that say they will abandond x if it ever gets a multiplayer option added, ABOMINATION!!! they say, but whatever,, devs in disquise trying to back themselves up as community members!! im callin you out!
Just because community members have the same stance as devs on certain aspects it does not mean that they are devs in disguise.

I don't think any serious X player would quit the series just because of a multiplayer option, as long as its purely optional. They probably mean they'd quit only if multiplayer is mandatory (aka always online always multiplayer, no singleplayer option or too much focus on multiplayer aspects, like the latest infamous Sim City) they wouldn't be interested anymore since they like to play X as a singleplayer game.
nithilak wrote:if a dev says its out of scope because they are a team of 20 with 4-5 artist, if its about time and money,, than it seems they would invest the man power and time in deving in a co-op mode or SOMETHING to put this game on the map for real. only because it would bring a 38% good reviews up to 76% good review, which is marketing you cant buy.
If it's out of scope because of manpower constraints and money constraints, how would they then be able to "invest manpower and time in deving additional features"? If something is out of scope because ressources are limited, you can't invest ressources into developing out-of-scope features, unless you sacrifice ressources currently reserved for developing the main game (which would then result in a lower quality main game).

Also : Just having a multiplayer mode does not automatically increase the review score. There are plents of games with multiplayer that are pure garbage.

Of course it would be super cool to have multiplayer, but unless/until Egosoft has enough ressources to develop a multiplayer feature for X without affecting the quality of the main game, i'd rather sacrifice multiplayer than having a bad game with multiplayer.

Please don't take my criticism too personally, i'm fully on board with you that alot of your wanted features would be absolutely fantastic. :)
I'm just trying to explain from a game developers point of view why some long-wanted features such as planetary landings are simply not probable if a rather small developer team has only a very limited amount of time, people and money at their disposal.
Last edited by Rei Ayanami on Fri, 23. Feb 18, 18:05, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by R_Romach_R » Fri, 23. Feb 18, 17:29

When I was still young, I bought the space strategy game X3 :D ...I thought so. When I installed and played it - I was SO dissapointed :cry: , because it was space sim...I thought so. But for some reason (maybe fate) I gave the game second chance and played it like 1 hour. I was so mesmerized by it :o : it wasn't a space sim, it wasn't space strategy either - it was something much more. It was between one and another, X3 for me throde on thin, thin line. It was something new, something interesting :idea:. Now, after X:Rebirth, Egosoft returning on (what I think and beleave is) right track for them and for most fans. For me X games are something unique, something that nobody ever done. So what I waiting from X4:Foundations - is...foundations. When somebody asking devs to make from unique and interesting game some consumer goods for average players (which will hardly appreciate it)...I becoming SO angry :evil: and dissapointed :cry:. I know that I'm maybe an egoist and don't understend a thing, but for me X4 is one of two most anticipated games in 2018/2019.

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Post by Nanook » Fri, 23. Feb 18, 20:04

nithilak wrote:...youll always have the 20 guys that say they will abandond x if it ever gets a multiplayer option added, ABOMINATION!!! they say, but whatever,, devs in disquise trying to back themselves up as community members!! im callin you out!
And I'm calling you out! (I'm not a dev, btw. :P ) We now have a term for what you're saying - Fake News!. In fact, a multitude of polls done over the years have shown the vast majority** of X'ers do NOT want multiplayer added into the X games for a multitude of reasons, not least of which is it takes development time away from core features, and would likely end up with a game that's a watered down version of what we have.

**These polls typically had many hundreds of voters. And if you care to look, there's a thread where all the previous multiplayer polls have been collated.
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

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Post by nithilak » Sat, 24. Feb 18, 22:43

the im calling you out comment i hope,, was understood as a light hearted joke

im seing alot of responses about multip player and rpg aspects, and i think im being mistaken for suggesting much much more than what im actually suggestiong,, so i will clarify/simplify,, once again, perheaps better,,,,

im talking about

simply adding a personal inventory, for armor, weapons, and maybe speacial items say perhaps, a special item for a courier mission,, it'll show up in the player inventory instead of the ship inventory,, since X4 will be flying multiple ships,, it almost seems like your gonna HAVE to have a player inventory,, so, the ability to wear differ armors, even if you never get to actually see your player character aside from a small graphic of a hand holding a gun,, classic doom style.. what im ACTUALLY talking about can be pulled off not only minimally but still tastefully,,, more tastefull than the
-old ladies that slowly fell off the top of the ugly station and hit every rafter and support beam and relay admitter and what have you on the way down-
(again just joking...lot of comments out there about the radiatien beaten old ladies in rebirth lol.
and hey, this could completely replace the mini-game that NO ONE freaking likes. people will say,, "HEY, they got rid of that stupid mini game no one liked, and replaced it with the ability to draw a blaster and cap npc's in a station!! FEELS like we have a reason to walk around on a statiion now,

that ONE little addition, and i know enough about programming and even modding to know it could be achived in x revbirth with out too much effort, and stil be tastefully achieved.

(your probalby going to ask,, "why dont you mod it in yourself if its so easy?,, well, i expect someone that doesnt do any modding at all to say that because any good modders out there know im being realistic. but to anser it, i was t-boned on my bike in 2014 and its really put a cramp in my style to the least. i simply havent had to time to dedicate to modding as of any time recent, and the mods ive started, albiet dated now, are huge and will be where i pick back up in the modding world.


you say yall took a poll, and im sure this poll consisted of a lot of people that ARE NOT already long time x players, im sure this poll consisted of all the poeple that bought x and HATED it, wich clearly heavily outweighs the number of poeple who bought it and like it. thats not my guess, you can check RIGHT NOW!!!

LOOK AT THE REVIEWS ON STEAM

TODAY 28 recent reviews, mostly negative
ALL (4,570) mostly negative

LOOK at what everyone is complainign about.. serisously you egosoft gusy ONLY STAND BEHIND THE SOURCES THAT BACK YOUR OWN ORIGINAL IDEA.. your poll is/was trash....

if you go to starbucks and take a poll and ask everyone there whose coffe they perfer, majority if not all will say starbucks,, OBVIOUSLY

your gonna have a few stragglers that just come in for the wifi and atmosphere, that prefer their home brewed maxwell house over anything becuase thats what they aquired a taste for.

but in this case,,,,

if you highlight the,, ALL REVIEWS, on steam, it will dislplay,, 38% of the 4,570 user reviews for this game are positive.

in case thats confusing to anyone,, thats not a good thing.

i would prject that, x4 might do slightly better than xrebirth, due to flying all ships,,but thats relying on advertiseing a new few new features, im sure us vets will love it. just eat it up. i know i will.

but if you go by the numbers alone,, id say to expect foundations to do about as well, possible slightly worse than rebirth,, because rebirth is not really giving it a good name at the moment..

the planet side thing i dont expect, but agin, could be pulled of minimally and tastefully,,

since a huge thing about foundations is no loading, its all seemless, i could see going planet side having its challenges, although they pull it off nicely its seems in OSIRIS new dawn.... say those challenges are worked out,, im only talking about giving eaceh race,, a single visible city, that gives more than just the players imagination as to what these races homeworlds are like,, doesnt have to be another whole sandbox like skyrim on the ground.. just city perhaps the size of station. with alot of environmental art to support the imagination.

x has always relied heavily on the imagination, HOW you play in large is in your head,, one responder wrote that he likes feeling imprtant being the commander of a big fleet, and doesnt think more implemantion to the player and npcs is much needed for the feel hes achieving palying the game,, but A HUGE SELLING POINT of the game is to be able to play how you want,, not everyone wants to be a fleet commander,, im more lika a han solo type,,just now with a large collection of ships parked at a warehouse, i just asighn all the caps to protect and trade over stations i had built. i dont actually do any of the commanding, beyond tellin the capiton of a ship who to go work for ,, im more like job recruiter for my own compaines that would rather have a wooking harping out blablablablab at stuff randomly rather than the annoying girl taht doesnt really do anything at all. she should at least be able to fly the skunk and fight when you are remote controlling a drone. hmpf

i just thougth of this, but , what we need is the ability to to host missions areselves,, like,, THINK about it,,

i have this massive fleet of i dont even know how many ships,, just flying around making me money, and protecting my stuff.. i just fly around now and cap xenon and khaak and pirates,, it didnt take long to get to this point..

but what if could pay npcs to take mission from me, just like on the bulliten board,

what if i could pay an interested npc,, to go start some shiznit between to other factions, so that i could inderectly cause a skirmish or even all out war without it effecting my own reputation? hmmmmm.

or just down right pay a politition of a faction to start some shiznit with another faction or race???? make bribes with some of this hundreds of millions i have????

sorry , chasing rabbits,, i love X,, it truly does make me think and even inspire me. much love, i hope no one, fan or dev, thinks im bashing at all.. quite the contrary, i want it to really be the all in one, truly can do whatever you want enviornement, and it just seems like its so close to achieveing that, all in all, though, im not talking about a whole new game, im just talking about what really seems to be minor improvements on whats already there. im not suggesting changeing anything about x, onlly adding to it.
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Post by adeine » Sun, 25. Feb 18, 08:55

nithilak wrote:the im calling you out comment i hope,, was understood as a light hearted joke

im seing alot of responses about multip player and rpg aspects, and i think im being mistaken for suggesting much much more than what im actually suggestiong,, so i will clarify/simplify,, once again, perheaps better,,,,

im talking about

simply adding a personal inventory, for armor, weapons, and maybe speacial items say perhaps, a special item for a courier mission,, it'll show up in the player inventory instead of the ship inventory,, since X4 will be flying multiple ships,, it almost seems like your gonna HAVE to have a player inventory,, so, the ability to wear differ armors, even if you never get to actually see your player character aside from a small graphic of a hand holding a gun,,

[...]
X5: The Mess Effect Andromeda™

nithilak wrote:you say yall took a poll, and im sure this poll consisted of a lot of people that ARE NOT already long time x players, im sure this poll consisted of all the poeple that bought x and HATED it, wich clearly heavily outweighs the number of poeple who bought it and like it. thats not my guess, you can check RIGHT NOW!!!
Er, no. These polls have sampled precisely the people who are long time players, mod creators, people who feel strongly enough about this series to be active on the forums.

It turns out the X community.... likes.... X games? The reason X:R did not go over well is exactly the same reason most people don't want loot based RPG, or FPS elements, or half-baked features that don't really work in X(n).

If X4 succeeds at being an X game at launch, I don't think Egosoft have to worry about the game being successful. They could (and let's face it, likely will given the scope of these games) launch it in a state that is buggy at best, but if the Foundation's right ( :P ), people will go out of their way to spread the word. I mean, just look at the support and word-of-mouth X3 is getting to this day.

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Post by R_Romach_R » Sun, 25. Feb 18, 09:05

Agreed with adeine

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Post by nithilak » Sun, 25. Feb 18, 11:08

you must have misunderstood my wording, you confirm exactly what i just said, the poll was taken and held among long time x players.

i just said it in a sarcastic way lol

my point is merely about increasing the fan base. and adding a few more elements to the players aspect, such as slighly enhanceing the players funtions and abilities. and purpose of walking around, aside from changing ships. or in rebirths case, to repair the skunk.

Egosoft, slowly but surely,, despite all the arguments being made, has in fact delivered on some of these aspects, over time, rebirth being the most perplexing imo...

only because,, as the title suggests, they rebirthed the x series, in that they brought it back to XBTF... (i really wish a XBTF mod would come out, Rebirth would be the engine to do it in) ,, sorry trailing,, for that matter,, rebirth would have been a much bigger hit, for vets and newcomers alike, if they just did that,, remade XBTF,

and so your saiying that egosoft is comfortable with their fan basse and has no interest in increasing it?

then why reach out to more vendors to get theri games out there,, they could sell everything right from their home page and kick steam and any other vendors they use,, no, clearly, like any business,, they want more business, more sales..

expanding on the games playing featurse is NOT going to hurt the x series, and when they took a poll, it was about money, its always about money, they needed to know what the fans CURRENTLY want them to focus on more right then for what they were working on..

no one the plays x will drop it if they add more funcions to the players character, or build 5 or 6 cities you can land on planet or moon side,
or give the player the ability to carry a side arm

im also puzzled, many arguments are about the realizm of X,, when the only thing realistic is the economy, the space flight is realistic, in theory.
the story elements are realistic for sci-fi

the transporter device is not realistic, nor is auto docking upgrade in x3 triliogy or the seta drive,, there are several things that are just added for convienience, to save you time.

but thats ok,, no body really complains about how unrealistic these things are in a universe that seems to strive to be realistic, in theory. mostley because you dont HAVE to use them

i think the highways are actually somewhat realistic, moreso than the above mentioned,, but there should be something generating these currents,, and they should look more organic or ocean current like rather than perfect bank teller tubes.

the seta drive isnt really necesaary, not with the highways and the jumpdrive and cap ship boosting so. they could have done without it this time around. actually they could of ditched it after xbtf/xtension. just ditch the shield drain on the skunk and ditch the seta.

landing on stations was and answered request, of mine and many others,, they alwasy gave you teh ability to fly, dock with or inside of a station, wich left most of us wanting a little more than that, since all the other space games only give you a back ground screen and a menu, much like xbtf,, 2 was very cool that you could free fly inside them, and that is my main point.

in reality, that wasnt much of addition, but it made a massive differnce in teh feel and depth of the game..now with the new station modules, it seems teh statons will be even more traversable, hopefully fully,, so what if theres no reason to run around,, its there, it doesnt break the game, you dnot have to do it, you just can..

if they give you armor and the ability to go on foot on boarding missions and have gun fights with npc's on statons and cap ships, that would be awesome,, i dont see how it will break the game, just like being abel to land in a station in x2,, it would just add to the depth of whats already there, doesnt meean yo have to do it

i can build a fleet of destroyers, but i dont have to, well i do if i want to complete a quest i took thats telling me to build a fleet of destroyers, but i didnt have to take the quest..

i dont have to go boarding and capturing ships, but i can if i want to,

i dont have to build more than the 1 station the main quiest requires, but i could build as many as i want if want to,,

im trying to understand how being able to wip out a pistol and cap and npc is going to break the game

i think it would be cool if you were subject to the same dangers and threats that you pose to the universe.. such as,,

being boarded,, how cool and frustrating and realistic would it be if you had to deal with being boarded by pirates, even if rarely, and if yo dont succefully fend them off or defeat them, then be subjet to being taken to a station and thrown in a slaver prison,,in wich case you have to pay substantial credits, or work, or escape!!!

thers just so many little things that coudl be achieved that would just create even more massive depth the game if they did those kinds of things. and it would give players a greater sense that tehy really can do what they want..in a game that suggest that yo ucan do what you want..
and you can,, just, within the limitiaions..

e.g. you can dock at a station and walk around and talk to npc's,, but only to do what you can already do from your ship, so really its completly redundant. they had to make it so you HAVE to dock, get out, and talk face to face with an engineer to fix your ships hull, rather than dock a shipyard as usuall.or just repair your hull yourself with a drone, why the skunk cant have one of these on board is a mystery. or why the engineer you hire cant reapari the skunk??????????????? strange really
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Post by adeine » Sun, 25. Feb 18, 12:24

Abandoning a series' core audience of almost 20 years as well as your fundamentals of gameplay on the premise of 'broader appeal' rarely ends well.

You have a studio that has been iterating on the X games' formula for equally as long, and very clearly has delivered: The reason people are still playing X3 is because it offers something you can't really get elsewhere, and arguably the best the genre has to offer.

Yes, first person shooters have 'broader appeal', but that is exactly the same fallacy that led executives to think atrocities like the Syndicate or XCOM FPS games were good ideas. Just because the genre is popular doesn't mean anyone wants an X-themed FPS. Perhaps more critically, it doesn't mean Egosoft are good at making FPS games. If they did attempt to make one and called it X4 it would not increase the appeal of the X series. Instead, it would be sub-par at best, completely alienate longtime players, and probably seal the X series' fate. FPS players certainly wouldn't play it - there are better options around. And players of previous X games wouldn't play it because well, they're not looking for an FPS.

I know you're talking about 'expanding' the series, but the above holds true whether you talk about a full game OR a minigame, subplot, game mechanic or whathaveyou. Except now you're trying to bolt these things onto an established gameplay loop and somehow make them relevant, all while stretching out an already small studio even further to implement things they are not experienced with. Heck, this is the reason X:R's station walking fell flat, the solution is not adding another fifteen features like it.

Anything that is added at this point will take away from development budget and time spent on the core gameplay mechanics that made X games successful. We already won't have most of the factions at launch, and ship selection will likely be limited. Why, you ask? Oh, that's right, because of ship/station interiors and walking sections.

Graaf
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Post by Graaf » Sun, 25. Feb 18, 15:01

nithilak wrote:im talking about

simply adding a personal inventory, for armor, weapons, and maybe speacial items say perhaps, a special item for a courier mission,, it'll show up in the player inventory instead of the ship inventory,, since X4 will be flying multiple ships,, it almost seems like your gonna HAVE to have a player inventory
This should be interesting if that courier mission is to transport several civilians or soldiers around. Where to put them in my inventory?


Oh, and a few of my opinions are:
- multi player: Overrated and should never be done. Go play EVE. Or if you are interested in NPC's feelings and such, go participate in that activity called Real Life.
- expanding on the fps: No, quite the opposite. Remove it all. First make every race return and when the game is actually working, make the FPS an OPTIONAL dlc.

nithilak
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Post by nithilak » Mon, 26. Feb 18, 19:53

kind of my point graaf,,

they went thru the effor to deliver this much to the players character in rebirth, but its so minimal theres little to no point. so expanding on it ias really just asking them to make something we can complain less about if its going to be ther, ,and it will be in foundations, obviously.

Also agreed, if you want to interact with npc/s slash people, than why offer so minimally? they only barely deliver on these aspects to a point its a flop, and THEY ARE expanding on these alements of the game, just watch the video..

as a courier in REAL LIFE, i transported DOCUMENTS for attourneys and many other smaller packages that fit in a couriers bag, and transport them across the state, even country sometimes.. not always large packages. Corporate big wigs and attorneys often rely on private couriers rather ups or fed ex. although i never delivered documents for diplomats, its not uncommon,,,, also in this case i was ALWAYS required to HAND deliver said documents and get SIGNATURE of the recepient,, its always mandatory when your moving a document for an attourney.
if it were implemented in X,, then it would just give an added realistic reason to do some the walking around that you hate so much ;)

as far as moving people? well, once i did move a pair of eyes,, yes eyes, human eyes, for transplant, to a surgery center in mcallen tx. they were in a very small packaging between two small dry ice packs, just about the size of a vhs cassette, a little thicker than a vhs cassette, but it did fit in my courier bag.. so yea, you could sort of move people in your personal inventory... just being realistic lol

also agreed to have thses as dlc,, especially since so many people have such strong feelings toward seeing the game be stripped backwards to the point its xbtf allover agian.

why did they implement a player aspect rather than staying afixed to your ship, why walk around in space stations, but not able to space walk?
they always add a half feature, or remove one thing and bring back another,,

their current answer to satisfy everyone, is,, implement a teeeny tiny bit more to the walking around part everyone hates,, and throw the teleporter device in so you dont have to do it as much if you dont want to,, oh, and make it rediculoulsy priced so most people will apreciate it somewhat once theyve mustered up the credis to have it LOL
(im guessing on the price of the teleporter)
im just going by their track record
Alloy Cowboy

gbjbaanb
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Post by gbjbaanb » Fri, 2. Mar 18, 13:43

nithilak wrote:why did they implement a player aspect rather than staying afixed to your ship, why walk around in space stations, but not able to space walk?
because people such as yourself banged on so long about FPS aspects, and the devs thought "OK, that'd be cool" and completely forgot what the game is about in their attempts to expand it to be everything to everyone (except long term players who wanted X3+)

i think all FPS should be in a DLC, so if we don't want it, we can not buy it. I think sales of that would suggest exactly how popular this aspect is. I suspect the whole concept is "cool" but impractical and irrelevant to an X game.

Slashman
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Post by Slashman » Fri, 2. Mar 18, 15:00

gbjbaanb wrote:
nithilak wrote:why did they implement a player aspect rather than staying afixed to your ship, why walk around in space stations, but not able to space walk?
because people such as yourself banged on so long about FPS aspects, and the devs thought "OK, that'd be cool" and completely forgot what the game is about in their attempts to expand it to be everything to everyone (except long term players who wanted X3+)

i think all FPS should be in a DLC, so if we don't want it, we can not buy it. I think sales of that would suggest exactly how popular this aspect is. I suspect the whole concept is "cool" but impractical and irrelevant to an X game.
I think this sums it up. If you came into X at the point of Rebirth, I suspect there will be some confusion about the FPS aspect in Rebirth. It was not what longtime fans wanted (or at least not in the way it was implemented) because it delivered no interesting gameplay. There was nothing worth doing that FPS made possible that was not doable from the cockpit of your ship.

I believe Egosoft realized that this feature is a dead end and thus it is very limited in X4. The X series was never destined for multiplayer FPS combat and complex EVA activities. This has nothing to do with those things being good or bad. It just has to do with scope, focus and resources.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

Player
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Post by Player » Fri, 2. Mar 18, 15:03

FPS in space games is very cool, gives another dynamics to the game and if well done, does not invalidate the main feature of the game, but adds a lot to it.

The problem with X-R is that Fps has been little and very poorly implemented.

FPS in the interior of capital ships is very cool especially if it allows to repair the motors, shields and hull.

nithilak
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Post by nithilak » Fri, 2. Mar 18, 21:04

which is my point basically.. i probably pointed out, didnt re read the thread but, i HAVE been playing since the beginning. and never really put any thought into it, untill x3 albion prelude..... in XBTF, the stations werent so impreessive enought to be curious about walking around. the point of docking is to trade, you get a backround to look at insde the station!! SOO COOL IN 19reakin97 or 8, whenever i got XBTF. (back then plus you really had to let your own imagination do alot of the work in a game like xbtf.--- THen in X2, you can space walk, teleport to other ships, fly all the ships!!! and even FLY INSIDE THE STATIONS TO DOCK MANULLLY!?!?!?!??! so bad @&& !!! X3, they implement a more realistic newtonian engine,, and more realisitc, less cartoonish graphics.. they really focused on giviing the game a more realistic ENVIRONMENT. AND it was amazing.. Now i played x terran conflict and albion prelude, i was more or less disapointed they werent just addons to x3,, at least terran conflict anyway. but other than story, and new ships and sectors, game didnt change much. but it wasnt untill "prelude" that i personally started thinking that the game really needs more,, and i was playing oblvion or skyrim by this time and it occured to me, thats IT! thats what this game really NEEDS.. and it is,, but,,,,,

then rebirth,, witch i honestly would never have guessed it would have got the terrible reviews and feedback it did, it just looks so amazing, and IS a fun game to play.. regardless... BUT they put a game out with an odd amount af added features, done so minimally, ulitmately leaving EVERYONE, OLD AND NEW ALIKE,, aksing why? why like this? why so unfinished seemingly? the new sector systme, the highways, the npc's, the walking around, the this and tha,, EVERYONE tore this thing apart!

now egosoft has taken polls and asked the community,, THIS COMUNITY,, the active egosoft forum community, and there IS NO DOUBT, that the majority of THIS community wishes the games stayed closer to its roots, much like x2 or 3.. thats only been re established a thousand times over the past many many years.

I AM ONE of the OLD SCHOOL and im here to say, THIS game could use more enhancement, rather than go backwards, or stay stagnant, ESPECIALLY since EGOSOFT took the LIBERTY to put it out world wide on mulitiple gameing faucets,, where it continually takes totall bashings. usually unfair bashings.. but are they? well to some of us that know and understand AND APRECIATE what the essence of this game is,, but to vast number of poeple that are new to X games and will be marketed to, that GREATLY OUTNUMBERS THE number of CURRENT FANS,(current fans that wish x to remain stagnant) , im just sayinnnn,,,,,,2+2,,,, you know,,,,,
IF they really are looking at polls and numbers, and really are taking that into considereation, then perhaps they should un block their peripheral vision and look at a broader spectrum here...and maybe set the bar to create a game that any lover of sci-fi can sit down and play,, TRULY any way they like,, the only people that bash on the idea of putting more into the player aspect of the game are EMPIRE BUILDERS,, well,, IM not an empire builder although,, you kind of tend to end up with one, one way or another, if you play any x game long enough,, soo,, its there for them and thats great.. but you dont have to play that way,,, i like to go at it han solo style and live on a hidden astroid base,, well i did untill they took the ability to have that AWAY!!!,,(the hidden astroid base part)
i just seems like they dont see how important the little details are, im just hoping this time around they dont, take away a bunch of cool little things, and put in a couple of nifty regurgitated things, and viola! new x title!!
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