new cockpit ineriors :/ build on the fp player aspect PLEAAASE

[nithilak]

kind of my point graaf,,

they went thru the effor to deliver this much to the players character in rebirth, but its so minimal theres little to no point. so expanding on it ias really just asking them to make something we can complain less about if its going to be ther, ,and it will be in foundations, obviously.

Also agreed, if you want to interact with npc/s slash people, than why offer so minimally? they only barely deliver on these aspects to a point its a flop, and THEY ARE expanding on these alements of the game, just watch the video..

as a courier in REAL LIFE, i transported DOCUMENTS for attourneys and many other smaller packages that fit in a couriers bag, and transport them across the state, even country sometimes.. not always large packages. Corporate big wigs and attorneys often rely on private couriers rather ups or fed ex. although i never delivered documents for diplomats, its not uncommon,,,, also in this case i was ALWAYS required to HAND deliver said documents and get SIGNATURE of the recepient,, its always mandatory when your moving a document for an attourney.
if it were implemented in X,, then it would just give an added realistic reason to do some the walking around that you hate so much

as far as moving people? well, once i did move a pair of eyes,, yes eyes, human eyes, for transplant, to a surgery center in mcallen tx. they were in a very small packaging between two small dry ice packs, just about the size of a vhs cassette, a little thicker than a vhs cassette, but it did fit in my courier bag.. so yea, you could sort of move people in your personal inventory... just being realistic lol

also agreed to have thses as dlc,, especially since so many people have such strong feelings toward seeing the game be stripped backwards to the point its xbtf allover agian.

why did they implement a player aspect rather than staying afixed to your ship, why walk around in space stations, but not able to space walk?
they always add a half feature, or remove one thing and bring back another,,

their current answer to satisfy everyone, is,, implement a teeeny tiny bit more to the walking around part everyone hates,, and throw the teleporter device in so you dont have to do it as much if you dont want to,, oh, and make it rediculoulsy priced so most people will apreciate it somewhat once theyve mustered up the credis to have it LOL
(im guessing on the price of the teleporter)
im just going by their track record

[gbjbaanb]

why did they implement a player aspect rather than staying afixed to your ship, why walk around in space stations, but not able to space walk?

because people such as yourself banged on so long about FPS aspects, and the devs thought "OK, that'd be cool" and completely forgot what the game is about in their attempts to expand it to be everything to everyone (except long term players who wanted X3+)

i think all FPS should be in a DLC, so if we don't want it, we can not buy it. I think sales of that would suggest exactly how popular this aspect is. I suspect the whole concept is "cool" but impractical and irrelevant to an X game.

[Slashman]

why did they implement a player aspect rather than staying afixed to your ship, why walk around in space stations, but not able to space walk?

because people such as yourself banged on so long about FPS aspects, and the devs thought "OK, that'd be cool" and completely forgot what the game is about in their attempts to expand it to be everything to everyone (except long term players who wanted X3+)

i think all FPS should be in a DLC, so if we don't want it, we can not buy it. I think sales of that would suggest exactly how popular this aspect is. I suspect the whole concept is "cool" but impractical and irrelevant to an X game.

I think this sums it up. If you came into X at the point of Rebirth, I suspect there will be some confusion about the FPS aspect in Rebirth. It was not what longtime fans wanted (or at least not in the way it was implemented) because it delivered no interesting gameplay. There was nothing worth doing that FPS made possible that was not doable from the cockpit of your ship.

I believe Egosoft realized that this feature is a dead end and thus it is very limited in X4. The X series was never destined for multiplayer FPS combat and complex EVA activities. This has nothing to do with those things being good or bad. It just has to do with scope, focus and resources.

[Player]

FPS in space games is very cool, gives another dynamics to the game and if well done, does not invalidate the main feature of the game, but adds a lot to it.

The problem with X-R is that Fps has been little and very poorly implemented.

FPS in the interior of capital ships is very cool especially if it allows to repair the motors, shields and hull.

[nithilak]

which is my point basically.. i probably pointed out, didnt re read the thread but, i HAVE been playing since the beginning. and never really put any thought into it, untill x3 albion prelude..... in XBTF, the stations werent so impreessive enought to be curious about walking around. the point of docking is to trade, you get a backround to look at insde the station!! SOO COOL IN 19reakin97 or 8, whenever i got XBTF. (back then plus you really had to let your own imagination do alot of the work in a game like xbtf.--- THen in X2, you can space walk, teleport to other ships, fly all the ships!!! and even FLY INSIDE THE STATIONS TO DOCK MANULLLY!?!?!?!??! so bad @&& !!! X3, they implement a more realistic newtonian engine,, and more realisitc, less cartoonish graphics.. they really focused on giviing the game a more realistic ENVIRONMENT. AND it was amazing.. Now i played x terran conflict and albion prelude, i was more or less disapointed they werent just addons to x3,, at least terran conflict anyway. but other than story, and new ships and sectors, game didnt change much. but it wasnt untill "prelude" that i personally started thinking that the game really needs more,, and i was playing oblvion or skyrim by this time and it occured to me, thats IT! thats what this game really NEEDS.. and it is,, but,,,,,

then rebirth,, witch i honestly would never have guessed it would have got the terrible reviews and feedback it did, it just looks so amazing, and IS a fun game to play.. regardless... BUT they put a game out with an odd amount af added features, done so minimally, ulitmately leaving EVERYONE, OLD AND NEW ALIKE,, aksing why? why like this? why so unfinished seemingly? the new sector systme, the highways, the npc's, the walking around, the this and tha,, EVERYONE tore this thing apart!

now egosoft has taken polls and asked the community,, THIS COMUNITY,, the active egosoft forum community, and there IS NO DOUBT, that the majority of THIS community wishes the games stayed closer to its roots, much like x2 or 3.. thats only been re established a thousand times over the past many many years.

I AM ONE of the OLD SCHOOL and im here to say, THIS game could use more enhancement, rather than go backwards, or stay stagnant, ESPECIALLY since EGOSOFT took the LIBERTY to put it out world wide on mulitiple gameing faucets,, where it continually takes totall bashings. usually unfair bashings.. but are they? well to some of us that know and understand AND APRECIATE what the essence of this game is,, but to vast number of poeple that are new to X games and will be marketed to, that GREATLY OUTNUMBERS THE number of CURRENT FANS,(current fans that wish x to remain stagnant) , im just sayinnnn,,,,,,2+2,,,, you know,,,,,
IF they really are looking at polls and numbers, and really are taking that into considereation, then perhaps they should un block their peripheral vision and look at a broader spectrum here...and maybe set the bar to create a game that any lover of sci-fi can sit down and play,, TRULY any way they like,, the only people that bash on the idea of putting more into the player aspect of the game are EMPIRE BUILDERS,, well,, IM not an empire builder although,, you kind of tend to end up with one, one way or another, if you play any x game long enough,, soo,, its there for them and thats great.. but you dont have to play that way,,, i like to go at it han solo style and live on a hidden astroid base,, well i did untill they took the ability to have that AWAY!!!,,(the hidden astroid base part)
i just seems like they dont see how important the little details are, im just hoping this time around they dont, take away a bunch of cool little things, and put in a couple of nifty regurgitated things, and viola! new x title!!

[Slashman]

I AM ONE of the OLD SCHOOL and im here to say, THIS game could use more enhancement, rather than go backwards, or stay stagnant, ESPECIALLY since EGOSOFT took the LIBERTY to put it out world wide on mulitiple gameing faucets,, where it continually takes totall bashings. usually unfair bashings.. but are they? well to some of us that know and understand AND APRECIATE what the essence of this game is,, but to vast number of poeple that are new to X games and will be marketed to, that GREATLY OUTNUMBERS THE number of CURRENT FANS,(current fans that wish x to remain stagnant) , im just sayinnnn,,,,,,2+2,,,, you know,,,,,
IF they really are looking at polls and numbers, and really are taking that into considereation, then perhaps they should un block their peripheral vision and look at a broader spectrum here...and maybe set the bar to create a game that any lover of sci-fi can sit down and play,, TRULY any way they like,, the only people that bash on the idea of putting more into the player aspect of the game are EMPIRE BUILDERS,, well,, IM not an empire builder although,, you kind of tend to end up with one, one way or another, if you play any x game long enough,, soo,, its there for them and thats great.. but you dont have to play that way,,, i like to go at it han solo style and live on a hidden astroid base,, well i did untill they took the ability to have that AWAY!!!,,(the hidden astroid base part)
i just seems like they don't see how important the little details are, im just hoping this time around they don't, take away a bunch of cool little things, and put in a couple of nifty regurgitated things, and viola! new x title!!

Which game are you talking about? None of us have played X4 yet and we don't know the nitty gritty details of its entire scope.

Star Citizen put a lot of crazy ideas in people's heads about what should be included in a space game and they haven't delivered on any of their promises. For the initial release of X4 I think Egosoft need to keep it tight and focused rather than try to catch every rainbow.

[Sandalpocalypse]

people have been trying to make continuous first person/ ship-flying space games for decades. it's not star citizens fault.

[nithilak]

im strictly talking about X series, i dont know star citizen. ive seen an ad but havent watched a trailer or seen gameplay, i know nothing of star citizen other than that is is a game that exists.

im talking about what i would like to see in X4, and why, why it would be good for the game, for fans, for newcomes and for egosoft.

arguments made are typical

out of scope or reach for devs, (money, size of team, codeing experience apparently, although i doubt thats really one)

majority of fans, (according to a poll they took) dont want more fps style elements added to the game. (very linear poll) compare how many people were actively involved in the poll, as apposed to the over 400,000 members. I know i wasnt a part of it. i highly doubt they made a solid decision as such based off of a linear poll that a fraction of highly active online members attended. its a single player game.

my only point is that if egosoft put the time and money and effort into adding more to whats there,, it would gross the game numbers that would put Egosoft on a map next to Bethesda.

Millions of people play Bethesda game,

there are still, after 25 years, less than 500,000.

clearly,, its no argument,, MORE poeple would play the game if the single player fps/rpg element were there.

it would liitterally take,

►a few more animations for npc's,, e.g. drawing a weapon, and firing it
►an added menu for the player (egosoft devs SURELY can handle menu additions!)
►some basic fps combat a.i.
►minor changes to some missions ( now you might have to personally escort your diplomat to their meeting, and defend from an assassin on the station) if above mentioned is implemented then some scripting can make it all happen.
►added textures/art for armor and weapons.

the rest is pretty much already there, Egosoft introduced it at the bare minimum with x rebirth, HOPEFULLY they have or will implement these things,, and bring their game to a far larger audience

Landing on planets or moons is expected to never happen, but would still be cool if they also laid the "foundation" by makeing 1 city for each race,, on a planet and/or moon for each race,, let modders take it from there,
LUNAR STATION MODULES?!?!

how can anybody actually think it would ruin the game

what im asking is for Egosoft to essentially take "foundations" such a higher step, that is comparable to the step that Bethesda took, say between, Fallout NV and Fallout 4

how could that anger or dissapoint anyone?

i beleive Egosoft is more than capable of this. I'm appalled at the idea that they actually think it is not worth their time.

and if it helps to ease your anxiety R_Romach_R,, im not saying that they SHOULD do it so that they can have a bigger audience up in the MILLIONS rather than less than a million,, and make WAY more money.

im simply saying that, THAT is what the end result would be, so its funny that anyone would use half the arguments they have to advocate against the ideas that i have proposed.

that is all

[Sandalpocalypse]

it's not that its a bad idea, its a matter of limited resources and limited market. A bad shooter strapped on to x4 wouldn't necessarily result in more sales, and it would take an enormous amount of development time away from the core game.

like, you're asserting that it could result in a ton more sales, but there's no evidence of that thus far. The X-series is niche and all indications are that it will remain niche. Games that have attempted to cross these genres - for example, Battlecruiser - have as of yet been unsuccessful.

Egosoft still has a long ways to go in crossing the space adventure and empire-building genres, and that's basically their whole core gameplay.

[DavidGW]

...MORE poeple would play the game if the single player fps/rpg element were there....

This is true. But, how many more people, really? X4 with FPS is still going to be a complex game with a steep learning curve, not DOOM in space. Yes, lots of new people will be interested, but a game that at its core is about flying around in space, trading wares, doing a bit of fighting, and most importantly takes hundreds of hours to complete will not gather a huge audience in our modern, instant-gratification world. No matter how many aliens you get to shoot in the face with a pulse rifle.

it would liitterally take,

►a few more animations for npc's,, e.g. drawing a weapon, and firing it
►some basic fps combat a.i.

This is the problem. The animations will not be simple. Spaceships and machinery have simple animations, people do not. It's the same with AI. Dogfighting logic is quite simple. In contrast, on-the-fly calculation of useful cover and sight-lines, running between cover, setting up defensive or offensive positions, it is all EXTREMELY difficult. And if you don't, the result will be TERRIBLE.

Landing on planets or moons is expected to never happen, but would still be cool if they also laid the "foundation" by makeing 1 city for each race,, on a planet and/or moon for each race,, let modders take it from there,
LUNAR STATION MODULES?!?!

Because it doesn't add much to the game. If we are on a planet, do we get to go outside? If not, what's the point? If we do, do we have a buggy? Then we need complex car physics. Just walking around? It will take too long to get anywhere. Either way, you'll need to invest more time and money into building landscapes.

how can anybody actually think it would ruin the game

what im asking is for Egosoft to essentially take "foundations" such a higher step, that is comparable to the step that Bethesda took, say between, Fallout NV and Fallout 4

how could that anger or dissapoint anyone?

Because the extra time and money that they would have to invest to make this is completely out of the question. Do you have any idea how much money a game like Fallout costs? I don't, but considering the hundreds of people Bethesda would have had working on it, and it still took years of development, I'd guess a lot. And after all that, Fallout 4 wasn't even that good, because it's scope was too big. The extra features like crafting and base-building were tacky and didn't work that well.

i beleive Egosoft is more than capable of this. I'm appalled at the idea that they actually think it is not worth their time.

and if it helps to ease your anxiety R_Romach_R,, im not saying that they SHOULD do it so that they can have a bigger audience up in the MILLIONS rather than less than a million,, and make WAY more money.

We could all make millions of dollars quickly, if we could afford to invest billions. The point is that they don't have the funds to do what you suggest. They can build on what they did with X-Rebirth, that's fine. Add more and more varied station interiors, improve character models, etc. because they already have lots of stuff they can scavenge from XR to save them time. But adding extremely large and complex new features, without any reliable way to fund them, would be economic suicide. I think the people who don't want new features added (including Egosoft) are mostly saying that Egosoft needs to focus on what they know and do best first, before they start doing anything risky and expensive. There is always time in the future to add FPS or planetary landings if X4 sells well, giving them the cash to do it.

[Graaf]

Millions of people play Bethesda game

But we do not play Skyrim or Fallout for the economic simulator. The same reason we do not play X3 for the FPS. And "we" do not play Rebirth, period.

what im asking is for Egosoft to essentially take "foundations" such a higher step, that is comparable to the step that Bethesda took, say between, Fallout NV and Fallout 4

Seeing all the feedback on the Fallout-fora, I believe they already took that step with X3 to Rebirth.

[adeine]

clearly,, its no argument,, MORE poeple would play the game if the single player fps/rpg element were there.

it would liitterally take,

►a few more animations for npc's,, e.g. drawing a weapon, and firing it
►an added menu for the player (egosoft devs SURELY can handle menu additions!)
►some basic fps combat a.i.
►minor changes to some missions ( now you might have to personally escort your diplomat to their meeting, and defend from an assassin on the station) if above mentioned is implemented then some scripting can make it all happen.
►added textures/art for armor and weapons.

the rest is pretty much already there, Egosoft introduced it at the bare minimum with x rebirth, HOPEFULLY they have or will implement these things,, and bring their game to a far larger audience

It very much is an argument for the reasons outlined above. You seem to vastly underestimate what makes a good FPS. A half-baked, tacked on feature that is janky at best or outright sucks will not make more people play X4. It certainly won't reach out to a broader audience because guess what, more competent FPS games are already out there for those who want them.

And the "but what if it's optional~" excuse doesn't really work either, because even if you ignore any budget or development time constraints (and that's a pretty big concession) you would have to integrate these aspects into the game meaningfully somehow. If you don't, it's just another pointless minigame that feels like it was thrown in there to tick another box. And if it's meaningfully implemented, not only does it change the type of game X4 is but you couldn't simply ignore that aspect of it if you didn't like it.

Landing on planets or moons is expected to never happen, but would still be cool if they also laid the "foundation" by makeing 1 city for each race,, on a planet and/or moon for each race,, let modders take it from there,
LUNAR STATION MODULES?!?!

how can anybody actually think it would ruin the game

Because people have been here before with X:Rebirth, perhaps.

what im asking is for Egosoft to essentially take "foundations" such a higher step, that is comparable to the step that Bethesda took, say between, Fallout NV and Fallout 4

how could that anger or dissapoint anyone?

Fallout 4 wasn't very well received by fans of the series because it gutted the RPG aspects Fallout was based around (ironically to focus more on the shooty FPS action), and you can see the effect on a wider audience as well:

[CBJ]

how could that anger or dissapoint anyone?

I will put this is simply as I can. Time and resources are limited. People want most of that time and those resources spent on gameplay that involves flying spaceships, because that's why they buy these games. They also want the company to stay in business so that more such games can be developed. What you are suggesting would put both of those at great risk.

Not to put too fine a point on it, your estimation of what would be involved in order to give the game a full FPS element (and by that I mean actually running around shooting people, over and above what we are already doing with cockpits, bridges and landing platforms) is hopelessly optimistic, as is the apparent implication that the company could just pluck money out of the air to invest in doing it.

Whether Egosoft would want to develop this kind of gameplay is an interesting question but completely secondary to the simple fact that we don't have the resources to do so.

[Rei Ayanami]

it would liitterally take,

►a few more animations for npc's,, e.g. drawing a weapon, and firing it
►an added menu for the player (egosoft devs SURELY can handle menu additions!)
►some basic fps combat a.i.
►added textures/art for armor and weapons.

You underestimate and probably have no understanding of how much effort it is to make a decent first person shooters.
It's not just "a few more animations", "some basic combat ai", etc.

First-person shooters take a lot more than just a basic ai. A basic ai would just straight up run towards the player while shooting, Serious Sam-style.

While that works in Serious Sam, because that's what the game is about : simple mindless shooting. It wouldn't work in games like X. X games, being supposed to be a game with complex mechanics, would require also complex Ai to make it believable, that means taking cover, making intelligent decisions, etc.

That'll require tons of ressources to develop. As i mentioned before : Many developers struggle to make a decent FPS alone. Egosoft would have to develop the space and economy aspect AND make it a decent FPS shooter.

On top of that, all that would need to happen while the rest of the universe still get simulated, so there is a huge CPU load for the universe-stuff while playing a FPS. You know how many normal first person shooters struggle to stay over 60 frames per second, even though they are just first person shooters? Now throw in a full simulation of a universes with thousands of Ai ships and a working economy. I bet you wouldn't be able to keep the framerate above 60.

Games like No mans sky, Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen get away with having fps-elements it by either removing the universe-simulation-aspect while you are in fps-mode (meaning that the universe-simulation and economy-aspect is not real but just a fake) or by using an always-online server simulation.

And even if Egosoft manages so implement a FPS-element into X, then the ultimate challenge would be : "Is it fun"? Even if you have a fps-engine, even if you have complex ai, even if you have a large world, all that doesn't matter if your fps-element is not fun. And making a fps-element fun takes another huge amount of effort and ressources, otherwise they'll become as dull as (sry, x-Rebirth developers) the talking-minigames of X-rebirth.

If space simulation, fps-aspects, economy-aspects, etc were really that simple to make as you seemingly think it is, then we'd already have tons of "everything"-games where everything is possible.

Heck, even super-rich developers like Rockstar Studios, with seemingly unlimited amount of budget, would stuggle to implement a GTA game where every person in the city is simulated in real time while keeping the current gameplay. Development of features is limited not only by the budget of the studio to develop like 3 different game genres into one competent game, but also what the players PC can handle in terms of computational power.

[Silicchilicchi]

Sinceramente parlando X Rebirth ha un sacco di features anche senza atterrare e girovagare per le stazioni... Le interazioni con gli npc potrebbero essere effettuate a mio parere solamente dalle consolle di bordo delle navi e stop. La boiata dei pianeti alla ED Horizon non serve a nulla... Se implementi i pianeti o li fai bene o fai a meno di farli (stessa cosa per un sistema fps umanoide). Quindi non prendere in considerazione questi elementi è la cosa più corretta. Comunque complimenti Egosoft perchè l'universo di X è il migliore e più completo.

<"Honestly speaking, X Rebirth has a lot of features even without landing and wandering around the stations ... Interactions with the npc could be made in my opinion only from the ship's on-board consoles and stops. The boiata of the planets at ED Horizon is useless ... If you implement the planets or do them well or do not do them (same thing for a humanoid fps system). So not considering these elements is the most correct thing. Anyway, congratulations Egosoft because the universe of X is the best and most complete." - Google translate can be your friend. Alan Phipps.>

[Rice]

may sounds foolish , but whats up with these portugese / spanish answers recently in the english threads ?

[CBJ]

It's Italian. And I'm guessing the forum user wants to contribute to the discussion, but isn't confident enough in their English language skills to reply in English. However, this being the English language forum, it would be preferable if they did, or at least provided a Google translation of their text so that readers (and moderators) don't have to do it themselves.

[Jeraal]

Just to throw my two cents in, I am NOT in favor of FPS things. I would prefer to have none in an X game. There are plenty of FPS games out there. I play X games for the ship flying aspect( be it sight seeing, trading or fighting). Time and resources spent on FPS takes away from the rest, in MY opinion.

[nithilak]

And here it comes,,, 'drum roll',,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Starfield,,, by none other than,,,, wait for it,,,, drum roll,,,,,,, Bethesda

[nithilak]

Ill STILL play all the x games tho..