Mac vs PC

[mrbadger]

Lets do this then…

I have a PC, an amazing one, truly epic, it’s fantastically powerful, has three monitors, can run any game I put on it.

It has more storage space than you could shake a sharty stick at (though I’d question why you were doing that and would probably ask you to leave).

Apple have something similar, but I think their equivalent would be too much, easy costing twice the price without the monitors, and frankly it looks like a little bin, so why would I buy that?

I have an Alienware gaming laptop that work gave me. It is powerful, also extremely heavy. The keyboard sucks as does the touchpad. And this was apparently a very expensive laptop. I use it when I have guests who want to LAN game.

I’ve had both cheap and moderately priced windows laptops. My best experience being with a Dell Inspiron purchased in 2000 that survived until 2008. Mostly they just failed, or batteries started to lose lifetime (that happened with the Dell, but I never unplugged it anyway, so no matter)

My experience with Mac Laptops however has been entirely different. I’ve had two. The first only dying because of an accident after almost three years in which I found no deterioration in performance. I was rather upset that it got damaged. Probably the only downside of Macbooks is the lack of ability to repair some problems.

My most recent one is still fine after a year, although most laptops would be. Ten hour battery life is pretty darned good. I’d have trouble going back to any laptop that couldn’t top that and match the rest of the mac experience.

I was dubious about USB C at first, but it turns out I barely plug anything into my macbook aside from power. I’m not sure I’d want to only have one port, but I didn’t buy that model. I could however live with it if I had to.

My only complaint would be that I’d have no choice about which side to plug in the power lead. Probably that reason alone would prevent me from buying that model.

[Antilogic]

Overwhelmingly PC.

Not to mention Apple seems to have forgotten they sell Macs recently. I wouldn't want to buy into a product now where Apple are investing all their money and R&D time into their iDevices.

[mrbadger]

Overwhelmingly PC.

Not to mention Apple seems to have forgotten they sell Macs recently. I wouldn't want to buy into a product now where Apple are investing all their money and R&D time into their iDevices.

I don't get this home speaker thing, and won't be buying one. My home uses Apple home compatible smart lights, but what am I supposed to do, have one smart speaker in every room?

Or, here's an idea, use my iphone, which works fine, and I already own.

[Rapier]

... At what?

PC for some things, Mac for others. PC for more things than Mac. But which things are a priority? At the end of the day, it's a question I don't think carries as much weight as in the days we could only afford one 'computer'. Now when I pack an overnight back for a work trip, I usually pack more operating systems that items of clothing.

[Antilogic]

... At what?

PC for some things, Mac for others. PC for more things than Mac. But which things are a priority? At the end of the day, it's a question I don't think carries as much weight as in the days we could only afford one 'computer'. Now when I pack an overnight back for a work trip, I usually pack more operating systems that items of clothing.

I'm generally of the mind that Mac have lost their niche that they used to have. You can get equal experience on Windows now for everything and if you want a Unix based OS dual boot a Linux distro.

Only reason I can see to use Mac now is if you have already brought into the Apple ecosystem.

[korio]

a lot of mac users are migrating to razer blade laptops for profesional video and photo editing


if its not used for something that a normal laptop cant do, i would not waste the money a mac costs for the specs it offers.

[pjknibbs]

Seems rather unfair to be comparing the battery life on a machine which broke after 3 years compared to one you admit to running for 8? Especially since I can't think of any way Apple could possibly make a battery that won't lose capacity over time--what really affects battery life degradation is how you use the machine; if it's plugged into the wall all the time and the battery is always at full charge, it will actually deteriorate faster than if you let the battery charge and discharge. (This is why mobile phone batteries generally last longer than laptop ones do, despite being identical technology--people rarely leave their mobiles charging when they're actually using them!).

My own opinion on Macs hasn't changed in a couple of decades*--they're generally well built, but I don't think the price premium you pay is worth the additional quality, especially since you're locking yourself out of the far larger and more varied PC software library.

* the first Macs I encountered were running System 7, to give you an idea...

[felter]

You do realise that a mac is just an overpriced PC, with a different operating system and a motherboard made by Apple. They run the same software and can do the exact same things, they use the same memory and the same CPU's.

Mac used to have an edge on graphics and movie editing but nowadays there is not much of a difference in them. My laptop a PC version not a mac, I can use it all day get home and there still being juice left in its battery, I can get between 8 and 10 hours of use depending on what I'm using it for. So you can get a PC that can run on battery for just as long as a mac now.

I really do not see that the Mac has any kind of advantage over the PC now but the PC has a more realistic price and can be upgraded or repaired.

[Bishop149]

People who know more about such things than I assure me that Windows is a hot mess in comparison to any Unix based OS. That's as maybe but as a person who has little desire to rummage around in the guts of operating systems I can't say I've noticed.

What I have noticed about Macs however is:
- VASTLY overpriced hardware, which is often critically bottlenecked somewhere. Headline: Top notch processor!! Hidden: Really crappy FSB or Memory speed.

- The whole ethos of "The user isn't to be trusted and must be kept away from our precious workings!" which is kinda in opposition to that whole "Unix is much cleaner and easier to work with!" argument.
In my role as "friend who knows a little about computers" I was once asked to try and fix a Mac.
The error message being displayed was, and I kid you not: "An error has occurred!" Well boy Mr Mac isn't that informative! Care to mention in which process? Perhaps with a error code I could google?
They really don't want you to be able to fix them, they want you to pay them MORE money to do it for you.

Apple are excellent at making user-friendly (relatively idiot proof) black boxes, a customisable personal computer? Not so much.

[Ketraar]

Mac is for people that like to waist money. Yes back in the olden days, professionals would always work with Mac as stuff like Photoshop and the likes was not available on PC at all. I'm in the printing industry and anything design was made using Mac, but for more than 10 years all professional software is also available for PC which made mac useless unless you had some hardware that only worked on Mac (Heidelberg Scanners for example).

So for me its easy, I'll take whatever money it would cost to buy a mac, buy a PC that will perform better instead and use the remaining money to go on small vacation.

MFG

Ketraar

[Chips]

Would never buy the desktop Mac, I like to upgrade my PC as per/when cost effective. Furthermore, it's all about gaming, and therefore keeping up-to-date can be incremental and therefore cheaper than repeatedly shelling out for their entire system. Additionally I can replace components if they die, without it being yet more proprietary stuff that costs a fortune.

For a laptop, I would consider an Apple one simply because I've heard excellent things about longevity and I don't tend to game (certainly nothing requiring performance anyway). However, when it therefore means I watch youtube vids, surf a bit and watch online videos more than anything else... there's zero point paying out a massive (and it *is* massive) premium for the Apple product.

I'd never buy the iPhone, it's a huge price premium with stonkingly expensive contracts. My next phone will be a regression, as other than a decent camera, i only really use it to read email, make calls, chat on whatsapp and read the paper. I don't need the latest and greatest for that!

Would I buy Apple? Laptop, yes, if I were rich. Otherwise their environment isn't appealing enough to justify the vast premium they charge.

I don't dislike Apple, if people want to spend that money, go ahead.
Also, Apple have about 200 billion in cash in the bank, so think they're ok being able to develop/research multiple product lines, and most research areas will be across their range applicable anyway.

[mrbadger]

Seems rather unfair to be comparing the battery life on a machine which broke after 3 years compared to one you admit to running for 8?

No machine would have survived that accident, no matter who made it. It might have made a difference if it made been more easy to repair, but I'm not sure that would be true for any laptop.

And when it died it was running at the same performance as when I got it, Ther same wasn't rue for the Inspiron, it was just running. I'd passed it on by then. It carried on working, It wasn't suitable for my needs any more.

Still impressive, a good purchase, but no comparison.

You do realise that a mac is just an overpriced PC, with a different operating system and a motherboard made by Apple. They run the same software and can do the exact same things, they use the same memory and the same CPU's.

Are you saying that as someone vwho owns and uses one or someone who reads specs and articles.

Because I've owned and used both Windows and Mac laptops, and Macs don't come out on top spec wise, but they win on useability.

With work laptops that I have to cart around all the time, useability matters far more than the rams or anything so trivial as whether it has the latest graphics chip.

Will it load fast when I open it, will it connect to the network. Can I get my work done.

I am often working away while I listen to co-workers complaining about their windows laptops not working.

[Morkonan]

PC +1

Unless you have something that requires a Mac or you have a bunch of Apple products that you want to hook up with a laptop/desktop, needing full compatibility, then there's no reason not to get a PC. It's also... more betterer..

If something goes wrong with a PC, you just rip it out and replace whatever broked. Hard-drive, motherboard, CPU, a fan or three, blah blah... No muss, no fuss, just fixed. And, all for pocket-change. At the most, it might cost you a few evening dinners out at a decent restaurant to replace one component in a PC. (Back in the day, the argument wasn't "PC" vs "Mac" but IBM vs Apple, btw.)

My old, abused, PC desktop was struck by friggin' lightning, fire and smoke everywhere, and it still works. The charge burned out the drive controller (SATA/IDE/Whatsits) on the board and all the logical drives got borked. I added an external drive and, wallah, it works just fine now. (Thankfully, the USB controller is different.) If it had been a Mac, I would have probably had to take it to the Apple Temple and let the Priests chant over it, just so they could tell me I'd have to buy a new one...

The only Apple computer I've ever owned was an Apple IIc. (I think I did get a IIe for myself, but I also worked on those in school "Computer" class.) That computer had Appleworks on it and it really helped me generate some great papers in college.

A PC, IMO, is just more versatile, much easier to maintain and fix, and you get a bit more value per money-unit spent. Unless you have a specific reason for needing a Mac, and thus no need to even ask the question to begin with, go with a PC.

[mrbadger]

I wouldn't buy an Apple desktop, I can't justify it. I started this thread by making that point, they ain't worth the cost.

Laptops though...

The laptop in general is moving towards being a thin client, with resources being provided by cloud based services. That's how I use mine. So why shouldn’t be a luxury thin client? What excuse is there for it to have a crappy keyboard or a non responsive mousepad? The Chromebook is a good idea, but why are so many of them so badly made?

Aside from for gaming, which is all my Alienware (that I would never have bought myself in a million years) is used for, why buy a laptop with a powerful graphics chip?

All a powerful graphics chip is going to do is eat battery power. Connect to a cloud based graphics processing service, such as those offered by Google in their Cloud AI service and use that instead. Use Continuous Integration to compile your code when committing to an online git repository and avoid the processor intensive compile process.

Cloud based services are a thing now. I use them. There is almost nothing on my laptop, the hard drive has the programs I’ve installed and nothing else.

The idea of doing anything processor intensive on a laptop these days is a bit daft. Or seems that way to me.

Play a game? Yes, but that’s it. The most I do is a few turns of Civ 5, but that looks better on my PC. And I have Civ 6 on there.

[Morkonan]

A lot of laptops with powerful graphics controllers are switchable, capable of using an on-board plain IBM controller. They're configurable to use it either automatically, when on battery, or either switchable by application, using the video-driver software, or on-the-fly from a right-click context menu.

In other words - It's a non-issue as far as battery life is concerned, as most that I know of have switchable chipsets. (Always check the product specs, of course.)

As far as cloud services and the like, I don't use much of that stuff. What if there's no internetz connection?

Personally, I don't like being tied down to anything or restricted in what I can do or use. A PC-based system gives me more freedom and control. Well... at least it used to. Micro$oft is starting to erode that a bit, IMO.

Anyway, as above, if you've got a specific reason you want to use a Mac laptop, then buy one, by all means. If you don't, I think a PC based one is a better overall choice.

As far as "crappy keyboards" and the like, that's all about personal preference. Those are going to be different, model vs model, so it's difficult to compare those based on personal preference. You'll have to try one out in a store, take a look a co-worker's/friend's, or try out a similar make/model in order to get a feel for how the laptop will perform if you can't try it out, first.

I hate laptop keyboards, but get used to them after awhile. When not "being mobile" with one, I use an auxiliary keyboard as well as a separate mouse.

[euclid]

Overwhelmingly PC. ...

Second that.

Cheers Euclid

[mrbadger]

My Alienware has a switching Graphics card setup.
Which means if I were carring it around, most of that time I'd be carrying hardware that was turned off by design.

No thanks...

And the card in my desktop makes it look like a joke. It's only useful for guest gaming. I was only given it because we needed to spend our budget.

Without internet access most features of a laptop are useless these days. You can edit documents, play a local game, and.. edit documents again?

So cloud computing is very much a thing you should use. I backup everything to the cloud. To a cloud service at least. It really doesn't matter which machine of mine I'm on now, I always have access to the same data.

The only cloud service I make minimal use of is Apples iCloud. I store notes, passwords and photo's on there, nothing else. Until fairly recently I didn't even do that.

It's not very user friendly, or maybe it is. I find it frustrating. I want more access to the files as stored then it provides.

That might be a deliberate choice, probably is, to prevent accidental deletion, but it also stops me from organising my files myself, so I don't use it as much as I could.

[Morkonan]

...Without internet access most features of a laptop are useless these days. You can edit documents, play a local game, and.. edit documents again?...

It all depends on what you use it for. On my old laptop, a pretty nice "bit of kit" (Did I use that expression correctly? ) I used 3D programs to create 3D stuffs, graphic programs to edit/create textures, wrote stuffs, played games, rendered stuffs, wrote, played games, made 3D stuffs, rendered, etc, etc... All while not having access to "teh interwebz" because of where I was. I had access a few times a day, when I went to to a coffee shop or out to eat, but that was it. (When taking care of my Aunt who had failing health.)

So, I spent a huge amount of time "offline" with my laptop and still managed to do relatively productive things. But, I couldn't "work" or "email" or "download" etc... while offline, of course.

If you need "online" and "online services" then, of course, that's a primary consideration. Sure, that's what most people use laptops in conjunction with, these days, just like everything is almost always used in conjunction with an online environment in today's real-world.

BUT, if there is no internetz, it's still a computer, capable of computer-stuffs. I find that to be a good thing.

[Hank001]

PC. With MAC, or Apple you get what you're given.
With PC you have a world of options.

Hate to sound prosaic about but I've comfortably built over 100 of them. A good bit of them were for users who had MACs and
switched to PC when they needed a higher level graphics platform.

I'm sure Mac users love MAC.
Just as I'm sure I snicker when I see one.

[Observe]

I've never had a Mac, iPhone, iPad or any other Apple product and I've been building and buying computers since before they were commercially available. I don't even bother justifying my choice of no-Apple products any more. It's just become a way of life.