Mac vs PC

[euclid]

Overwhelmingly PC. ...

Second that.

Cheers Euclid

[mrbadger]

My Alienware has a switching Graphics card setup.
Which means if I were carring it around, most of that time I'd be carrying hardware that was turned off by design.

No thanks...

And the card in my desktop makes it look like a joke. It's only useful for guest gaming. I was only given it because we needed to spend our budget.

Without internet access most features of a laptop are useless these days. You can edit documents, play a local game, and.. edit documents again?

So cloud computing is very much a thing you should use. I backup everything to the cloud. To a cloud service at least. It really doesn't matter which machine of mine I'm on now, I always have access to the same data.

The only cloud service I make minimal use of is Apples iCloud. I store notes, passwords and photo's on there, nothing else. Until fairly recently I didn't even do that.

It's not very user friendly, or maybe it is. I find it frustrating. I want more access to the files as stored then it provides.

That might be a deliberate choice, probably is, to prevent accidental deletion, but it also stops me from organising my files myself, so I don't use it as much as I could.

[Morkonan]

...Without internet access most features of a laptop are useless these days. You can edit documents, play a local game, and.. edit documents again?...

It all depends on what you use it for. On my old laptop, a pretty nice "bit of kit" (Did I use that expression correctly? ) I used 3D programs to create 3D stuffs, graphic programs to edit/create textures, wrote stuffs, played games, rendered stuffs, wrote, played games, made 3D stuffs, rendered, etc, etc... All while not having access to "teh interwebz" because of where I was. I had access a few times a day, when I went to to a coffee shop or out to eat, but that was it. (When taking care of my Aunt who had failing health.)

So, I spent a huge amount of time "offline" with my laptop and still managed to do relatively productive things. But, I couldn't "work" or "email" or "download" etc... while offline, of course.

If you need "online" and "online services" then, of course, that's a primary consideration. Sure, that's what most people use laptops in conjunction with, these days, just like everything is almost always used in conjunction with an online environment in today's real-world.

BUT, if there is no internetz, it's still a computer, capable of computer-stuffs. I find that to be a good thing.

[Hank001]

PC. With MAC, or Apple you get what you're given.
With PC you have a world of options.

Hate to sound prosaic about but I've comfortably built over 100 of them. A good bit of them were for users who had MACs and
switched to PC when they needed a higher level graphics platform.

I'm sure Mac users love MAC.
Just as I'm sure I snicker when I see one.

[Observe]

I've never had a Mac, iPhone, iPad or any other Apple product and I've been building and buying computers since before they were commercially available. I don't even bother justifying my choice of no-Apple products any more. It's just become a way of life.

[pjknibbs]

My Alienware has a switching Graphics card setup.
Which means if I were carring it around, most of that time I'd be carrying hardware that was turned off by design.

No thanks...

Because it's a high-end laptop designed for gaming! You don't have to buy a PC laptop like that--heck, the one I use cost me less than £200 brand new and I actually quite like it. Needs more RAM and you have to dismantle the thing to install more, though, so that's at least one way in which it matches the typical Apple ethos.

As for laptops being used as thin clients, that's an argument for buying cheaper laptops, not more expensive ones. You don't need quad cores and loads of storage if all the work is being done on a remote machine.

[Hank001]

You've got a point there nibbs. Most high end quad core laptops are heat monsters with an abysmal battery life anyway. I keep getting asked to fix laptops that crapped out for one reason alone, they overheatedl and trashed something, usually the CPU, but next on the list is overheated disc drives. The cause in most cases was the owner bypassed the power settings to keep it at max performance on battery power to game with it.

[mrbadger]

As for laptops being used as thin clients, that's an argument for buying cheaper laptops, not more expensive ones. You don't need quad cores and loads of storage if all the work is being done on a remote machine.

Absolutelly, so why are cheap 'netbooks' still being supplied with godawful keyboards and mousepads? These are not expensive componants. But from a useability standpoint, they are vital. Things need to improve.

In principle the Chromebook is, as I said a great idea. In practice to get one with a decent screen and keyboard you have to pay as much as for a normal laptop, which makes no sense.

They should be retailing at <£100 for a good one now, with just enough on board storage to load the OS and buffer some files locally until you hit the next hotspot.

[red assassin]

My laptop is a previous generation Macbook Pro, which I've been very happy with. When I bought it there wasn't anything in the same price range that could equal its combined performance, battery life, portability and build/component quality (nice screen, keyboard, touchpad, etc) - which was something of a surprise, but there you go. The primary OS on it is Ubuntu, though I have macOS and Win 10 installed on an external disk should I need them.

I wouldn't buy another though - the price has gone up and the new ones have the worst keyboard known to mankind. It saves a few mm of thickness, but it's so unpleasant to type on. I don't know what they were thinking.


My desktop is a custom build, again with Ubuntu as the primary OS and a Win 10 dual boot.

[pjknibbs]

I wouldn't buy another though - the price has gone up and the new ones have the worst keyboard known to mankind. It saves a few mm of thickness, but it's so unpleasant to type on. I don't know what they were thinking.

I actually like those very thin keyboards with minimal travel keys--I'm typing this on one now (a Cherry JK-02), which is attached to a regular desktop machine! I dunno if that's because I never had formal keyboard training and so tend to type with about four fingers at most...

[mrbadger]

I like Cherry based keyboards on anything else. Aplle have made the only membrane based keyboard I can stand, but I was dubious, and I fully expected to be plugging in my Cherry G80 for serious work (clunky but I love it).

But I like it, and it's proved to be surprisingly damage resistant (read sleeping muddy cat resistant).

[red assassin]

I actually like those very thin keyboards with minimal travel keys--I'm typing this on one now (a Cherry JK-02), which is attached to a regular desktop machine! I dunno if that's because I never had formal keyboard training and so tend to type with about four fingers at most...

I haven't used that particular keyboard, but from the pictures it doesn't look nearly as bad as the keyboards on the new Macbooks - it doesn't really feel like the keys move at all, they just click a little, and I hate it. (See also: dust problems)

[apogee]

Not anti apple, I just think a pc is better value for money, more software / games available too. And apple design is no longer particularly better.

Only owned one apple product, an ipod nano, it was lovely, but the battery failed after a couple of years, and that was that.

re keyboards, i cant stand the low ones with flat close keys, typo typo backspace.

[mrbadger]

I decided against buying the new macbook. I don't like the screen size, and I wanted to have the option of plugging my power cord into either side of my laptop (gotta love USB-C for that). I thought I'd miss the mag release power cord, but as it turns out I don't.

Most of the time I use my Macbook pro away from a power supply anyway.

The mac touchpad is a thing of joy. I thought I'd be buying a mouse, but I never have. On the new Macbook Pro it's even better. I've never tried the Macbook. I didn't want one of those.

There are somethings that remain firmly jobs I use my PC for. Why would I spend so much on a PC then not use it?

But I use each machine for the things it's best at. I don't try to make the Mac do games it can't, and I don't bother doing work stuff on my PC.

PC is for fun, Mac is for work (and for acessing my work Linux machines). It's a nice divide. I know what I'm doing depending on what machine I'm using. I have a side of my room wide desk where I put my mac if I'm working, I don't fire up the PC, because there are too many distractions on that thing.

Of course such manufactured divides are for those who can afford, or want them.

[jack775544]

Last year I bought a Dell XPS 15 and it honestly changed my opinion on Windows laptops.
Here was a device that has a very premium design, a trackpad and keyboard that are rather nice to use (for a laptop keyboard that is), an excellent 4k screen and was several hundred dollars cheaper then the similarly specced Apple laptop when I bought it.

Before I saw this laptop I was honestly thinking of getting a Mac, but I have been very happy with the overall quality of the Dell laptop.

The biggest benefit for me for Apple is that for software developers there are many tools which are built for unix systems, but thanks to the Linux subsystem on Windows I have not really had any issues (and the amount of times that I use native unix tools that don't have a Windows port is rare).

[mrbadger]

I think if Apple took one of their older laptop designs then released it at a competetive price it would still outperform many lower end newer laptops.

Why isn't the old Macbook Air on sale for £300 now? They would sell like hotcakes. I'd buy on today.

This idea that faster chips and more rams == beter machine doen't work for laptops. Yes for some laptops it does. But it depends what you use it for. If like me you want a fast, light machine with a long battery life (and you can afford it) then a macbook of whatever flavour is good.

That last part is the killer. My current macbook cost my £2,500. It was worth it, but I could have got two Windows laptops that were almost as good for less than that, but I wouldn't have been as happy with them, I've long since got fed up with Windows Laptops. I don't trust the quality.

That's the thing though, I didn't want almost as good. I wanted the luxury item, and it is a luxury item. One which I note is appearing in front of more and more students now. Those that don't have them usually don't because they can't afford them, not because they don't want them.

I understand the Microsoft Tablet is getting pretty good too, but I don't like the look of it, and I don't like touchscreen laptops. Some of my students use them and say good things about them.

[Chips]

You're pretty consistent and defensive of Apple there

The main difference between Apple and non Apple buyers is summed up perfectly in what you said though.

My current macbook cost my £2,500. It was worth it.

Never, in a million years, would I ever claim a £2500 laptop was "worth it" if there are alternatives available. I'd be rating that around £400 per year for use, and what it'd have over a £500 laptop (performance wise, usability) is never, ever, going to equate to £2000 to me. I'd go without the laptop (for personal use, if it's work use, work should supply the laptop for me!).

I have a work laptop, and a personal one. All over again I'd not even bother buying my £500 personal one as I don't get enough "real" use out of it.

As for working, unless I have to be on the go (and I assume as a lecturer you'll take that laptop to your lectures and plug it in - so there's an entirely different requirement for you, so may drive what is worth what), then i'll always prefer a desktop - mainly due to the keyboard.

At work I do use a laptop, but it's plugged into multi-display and a mouse and a keyboard (so the laptop is actually turned on, but closed). If I had to work on the laptop as a laptop... I'd quit. It's just NOT comfortable or useable enough; I'd get RSI for sure as the hand positions are terrible on laptop keyboards, the monitor position is terrible for your posture, and it's frankly garbage to work on They could actually give us a high end gigabyte brix, the only difference is as I move the brix would power down and require powering back up again. You can get laptop stands to alleviate the display issue, but that requires a keyboard - and I'd rather have 2x24" display on the desk than a tiny 15" propped up infront of me.

I won't ever work full time on a laptop. It's a way to ruin yourself.

Spend the £1700 difference on the highest quality chair possible for you to sit in, the best keyboard and monitor work area - then plug your laptop in. Far better money spent for your welfare.

Work thankfully understands this. We have incredible chairs that cost > £1000 each and they're, without doubt, the most comfortable things ever sat on. You can sit in them all day, with excellent support and adjustability. Screw laptop quality, good work conditions and good life is about your workspace - not the machine you are just tapping on.

[mrbadger]

You're pretty consistent and defensive of Apple there

The main difference between Apple and non Apple buyers is summed up perfectly in what you said though.

My current macbook cost my £2,500. It was worth it.

Never, in a million years, would I ever claim a £2500 laptop was "worth it" if there are alternatives available. I'd be rating that around £400 per year for use, and what it'd have over a £500 laptop (performance wise, usability) is never, ever, going to equate to £2000 to me. I'd go without the laptop (for personal use, if it's work use, work should supply the laptop for me!).

I have a work laptop, and a personal one. All over again I'd not even bother buying my £500 personal one as I don't get enough "real" use out of it.

My University spent £2600 on an Alienware Laptop for me, and I have never owned such an awful peice of garbage. The keyboard is terrible, the keypad is not very responsive. The entire thing melted when the cooling failed and everything except the keyboard and screen was replaced. I don't use it myself now, it's my reserve gaming machine for guests.

I've never spent less on £1500 on a personal laptop (pre Apple), except for a breif attempt at owning a chromebook. You get what you pay for, and I don't want to buy a new machine every few years. I want to buy a machine and use it for at least five to eight years before I even think about replacing it. Before switching to Apple I was constantly frustrated by poor quality hardware and terrible battery lifespans.

In the case of this machine that means I expect my investment to mean £300 - £500 a year, about the same as buying a cheap laptop every two years. Only I haven't, I've got a very good laptop that will last. Already has lasted nearly a year, and with no deterioration in battery lifespan too.

[Morkonan]

The most expensive laptop I ever bought was "worth it." (Good quality laptop designed for multimedia, graphics, sound, etc..) I don't remember, now, how much I paid for it, but I didn't think it was expensive at the time. (I'd think that the "ceiling" of "too expensive" would be around $1,800 or so.)

I will pay for quality and performance, but only just so much... I won't pay for a "name."

Thought: Wouldn't it be nice if we could built laptops from component parts? I know many manufacturers let you specify components, but it'd be nice to be able to build them from "off the shelf" parts. Unfortunately, there aren't any dimension standards for many intrinsic components as laptops compete on size, thinform, cooling, battery life, screens and screen formats, etc... (AND KEYBOARDS! )

[mrbadger]

You mean if we could build Laptops the way I build my computers?

I didnt buy my laptop because it vwas Apple. If I thought that way I'd own an Apple desktop too, and I think those, while they look nice, dont suit my needs.

I bought it because Apple are the only company with a consistant build quality record.

Lots of people throw thier hands up at the mere mention of Apple, but they didn't become such a big company by chance.

I keep using the word Luxury when I refer to them, and that's deliberate, they do produce luxury goods, not cheap machines. But unlike other companies I've dealt with they provide great service along with those expensive products.