Jumpdrives got me into X3, highways just dropped me off XR, and we're legion

[AdrianB1]

The best way for a stellar map to be represented is to represent it like it should be:
- 1st level: A view of the galaxy, with systems joined by each other with lines. Travel made by jumpgates.

- 2nd level: A solar system with a star in the center and planets around it. each planet or stellar body, is a sector. Travel by large ships "booster" ou blue highways.
This representation in X Rebirth is a mess.

- 3rd level: A stellar body (planet, asteroids, etc...). Composed of different "zones" or "area" if you want.

Good idea. I would use accelerators (like in Terran space in X3:AP) for intra-system travel instead of highways. Maybe small ones for 3rd level, but except for Aldrin I don't see the need. Aldrin was a bad exception in any way possible, it was killing performance and a bit unrealistic as the huge mass creates gravitational forces that were totally ignored (hard to model).

About the gate and accelerator placement: the X3 layout of having the gates at the edges of the sector was helping, otherwise there is a strong impression of emptyness for the space beyond the gates. Yes, space is big and empty, but empty sectors seem to be lifeless, reduces immersion. So, my proposal:
- gates in the middle relatively close to each other in one plane (ex: N-S-E-W). It will allow fast travel across the universe and limit system to system traffic to the gate zone. No stations in that area!!!
- accelerators at the edges of the sector, same or a bit farther away than X3 gates, in the same plane or perpendicular to the gates
- also make the sectors more 3D in layout, they were mostly in the gate plane and up-down were rarely utilized, even if in space all directions have equal value
- as modern computers have much better performance, moderately more populated sectors - both stations and ships - without making them crowded; nobody has a good reason to go crowded in space, it's so much emptyness there. Maybe 15 to 25 stations per sector in core sectors and 10-15 in others? Meaningful stations, not random ones created by build missions that broke the universe in time

[AdrianB1]

Sounds a lot like what's been proposed already - in that jump cost rises with mass. So a trade ship full of dirt costs too much to jump profitably, and jumping capital warships costs a lot that you won't want to do it much.

It is not about the financial cost of jumping a capital ship, it is about limiting it. The limitation should be the cargo capacity - you have space either for weapons or for cells, not both. This allows to redeploy a fleet without navigating sector by sector, but you need to plan your rearming carefully. Btw, weapon refitting should take a few minutes or should be done only in docks (shipyards/space dock/player HQ), no instant switching.

[DavidGW]

Personally, I think highways should not be scrapped, just improved. They help bridge systems with quick, cinematic travel, while still allowing the player to drop out at any point along the highway. I don't think that should be given up.

If it were up to me, I'd make highways all straight, and have all transiting ships travel at the same speed through them. Transit speed through a highway would also be much faster, while still keeping the ability to drop out at any time through strafing and touching the side.

That would mean no more mini game, and less time spent in the highway, while still keeping the main reasons for their use.

Also, they should be much prettier I'd use some of that lovely refractive index effect and maybe a volumetric glow.


Superhighways same thing, straight, faster, consistent speed, no mini game. Can't break out of them.

[A5PECT]

X Rebirth changed highway travel from the 3x3 grid with "drafting" to full control over strafing and speed a long time ago. The devs have stated that in X4 highways are more linear with very gradual curves, and less prominent throughout the universe map thanks to boosting, travel drives, and SETA. Watch the X4 footage shown so far and note that none of the highways shown have extreme curves or loops in them.

I do agree on all of your points about keeping them in the game and improving and refining them.

[DavidGW]

X Rebirth changed highway travel from the 3x3 grid with "drafting" to full control over strafing and speed a long time ago.

I know, it's better now, but you still have to dodge big and really slow freighters plus other clustered small ships. I still think it's clearly a mini game, just a different type to the original one. I still find it annoying trying to avoid other ships, especially when you think you're going to miss them but you hit anyway, and end up spinning out, or start bouncing between ships and the tube wall.

The devs have stated that in X4 highways are more linear with very gradual curves, and less prominent throughout the universe map thanks to boosting, travel drives, and SETA. Watch the X4 footage shown so far and note that none of the highways shown have extreme curves or loops in them.

Yeah, I'm having another look at the 3rd X4 stream now, where we can see a highway. It does have a refractive effect, which is nice. I still hate the tube graphic though, and I think it would be much better if it was much more subtle.

Also, we don't yet know how fast ships are going to move through the highway, or what the gameplay inside will be like.

I think my main point is that highways and superhighways would be improved if they were more like an animated, cinematic and quick trans-orbital accelerator kind of deal, rather than the slow and attention intensive travel mode they are in XR.

[Honved]

Personally, I think highways should not be scrapped, just improved. They help bridge systems with quick, cinematic travel, while still allowing the player to drop out at any point along the highway. I don't think that should be given up.

I can accept highways, provided that they don't require a lot of attention to use (you enter, do whatever while you're sitting in the traffic pattern, and then exit when you approach the destination), and provided that they don't have an imposing physical presence that clutters the universe with "spaghetti".

In my opinion, they should be mostly empty space, with little or no physical structure except at periodic intervals to maintain ship speeds. Basically, they should be little more than "marked lanes" for high speed travel, or a row of lights, rather than "subways in space". Once they start looking like massive constructions with walls on an epic scale, they cease to be believable.

Having "highways" as marked routes to prevent collisions makes sense; we do that with air traffic now. Building tubes to contain that traffic makes no sense, ESPECIALLY if things are going to jostle and bump regularly. The idea is to PREVENT collisions by making traffic coherent, not guarantee collisions by packing the ships tightly together in a confined space. Once it becomes a mini-game to use, it's no longer a "feature", it's a mistake.

[kurush]

Another user who knows what everyone wants, ignoring reasons behind decisions which have been communicated so far and discussed by other users in detail. What about stating your opinion as what it is an opinion, instead of calling everyone stupid, who does not agree with you?! I know it's a complicated concept, but feel free to try it.

That he does. Those reasons were "we want something new", if I remember it right. But then who we are to argue? I guess I'll just pick it up again when it goes below $10 to say "yes, it indeed sucks". My story with Rebirth that is going to repeat.