What's wrong with my HDD?

[Mightysword]

So I have an old hard drive that has been acting up. Basically once a blue moon it stops responding when I open certain folders, or when I open a file and it just freeze up (not the computer). Usually if it's one of those day the drive gonna take a while to load up the content when I open it. 90% of time it works, and the other 10% a reboot will fix it ... until now.

Between yesterday and today it has been constantly freezing on me now. And when that happens, it seems it also hang the shutdown process so I have to hard reboot it. It's not my system drive, just a 1.5TB drive I use to store junks. (I have file on here date back 10 years ago, migrated from previous generation of HDD). I think maybe the drive is on its lag leg, so I had ordered a replacement. Still, I was afraid I might lose what's on there.

So ... weirdly enough, when I boot the computer into safe mode, it works like a sparky new drive. No slow down, no hanging, I can access everything. In fact I just spent 4 hours working on it whether I couldn't for more than 10min in normal mode, moving all of the files I want to keep to a new temporary drive before my permanent replacement arrives. So ... what exactly wrong with this drive? I run a SCANDISK on it and the process stuck at stage 2 indexes 60% for hours before I decided to just cancel it. Why does it work so well in safe mode, is there a way I can fix this drive?

[UniTrader]

rule number one if a HDD/SSD is acting up like this: dont trust it anymore that it will hold your Data. These Drives usually have error correction built in, and if Errors beginn to visibly appear/influence the reliability in short it means that the Error correction cannt keep up with the Errors the Drive produces anymore. and it will only get worse from there (probably slowly).
The reason that it still works in safe mode is probably that the Drive is not acessed with full speed giving the error correction more margin and/or that the Windows Services usually acessing it in the background (like the one which generates thumbnails of Pictures/Videos) are not active in safe mode, which means less load on the drive when in usage, and therefore it is more reliable (for now)

that said this Dives useful life is not yet over - you can still use it to store/transport Data like Pictures or Videos to show Family/Friends or things like this.. which you either dont have to keep (like TV recordings you only watch once) or which are also additionally on a reliable Drive (which you dont want to take with you) - just keep in mid that it could fail entirely any moment it is in usage (or slowly degrade even more and slowly corrupt the data on it)

[Sinxar]

Exactly what UniTrader said. I will take it one more step and say it is dead. Yeah it still works sporadically for now, but its basically dead, its only a short amount of time before complete failure.

[Morkonan]

... Why does it work so well in safe mode, is there a way I can fix this drive?

What errors are being reported when it "stops working" or "freezes?" It's difficult to know exactly what you mean. If there are no errors reported, then what do you see happening that fits the description of "not working" or "freezing."

Check the "Event Viewer" and other tools under Administrator Tools. Are there any errors being reported there?

It could be the controller or a combination of things. The first fault-point to check is going to use a new drive, though.

What sort of drive is it and how is it connected to the system?

[Mightysword]

What errors are being reported when it "stops working" or "freezes?"

What sort of drive is it and how is it connected to the system?

It's just your typical WD 7200RPM Sata. I think this is its 8th year in service. And there is no error. For example, sometime when I open the drive it takes a while to load the content. Sometime I'm viewing a series of picture with say ... Irfanview and the program itself just freeze up, and can not be terminated by any mean, not even by terminating the process in the task manager. I would still be able to navigate the drive (like go in and out of folder) but I would not be able to open any file, eventually it would just crash the whole explorer.exe all together. Usually a hard reset the comp would fix it. And SCANDISK says there is nothing wrong with the drive



And yeah, I think its on its dying breath. The replacement will be here on Tuesday. I hope it will not breath its last before then.

[Sinxar]

You can try Western Digital's Data Lifeguard Diagnostic to see what SMART says about it. Can be found on this page somewhere: https://support.wdc.com/downloads.aspx?lang=en

[Morkonan]

...And SCANDISK says there is nothing wrong with the drive

Scandisk may not report anything wrong with it if what is wrong doesn't have anything to do with the file-system/media. And, if your FAT were randomly dropping out.. that doesn't make sense at all. It may be hardware other than the drive media. For instance, the drive's cache may be failing, unable to load/purge/whatever as necessary. BUT, I would expect to have seen that in any test as those tests are intensive read/write but, probably not as much at one time as a image/thumbnail.

It could also be a mechanical fail, too. Everyone's arm gets tired, sometimes...

If you can't get a definite media fault report, then it's likely an onboard cache issue (not fixable by you), a mechanical issue (not fixable by you) or the controller on your motherboard (fixable only by replacing the board unless you have a separate controller card).

Separate controller cards are available, btw, but may not fix the issue. I seem to recall they still need, or the board does, something from a controller, so if it's really borked, that may just force the system to nut up occasionally, anyway.

And yeah, I think its on its dying breath. The replacement will be here on Tuesday. I hope it will not breath its last before then.

If you experience problems with that one, then it's likely the controller on your motherboard or, a wildcard, the SATA cable, itself. These can go "bad," especially when they get "pinched." As that little pinch, transfering to the wiring underneath, experience more and more degradation due to heat (electrons passing through a bent bit of wire) faults can occur. Typically, it'd take a long time. But, if you haven't touched it in 8 years, then that could be it, too. (ie: As it warms up, ever so slightly, during use, faults start to stack up. Though, that wouldn't explain why a reboot temporarily fixes the problem. That points to a much more likely cache/controller/drive issue.)

Run the app linked by Sinxar. If it's WD and is "only" 8yrs old, it should be SMART compatible and WD's tools are good.

[Mightysword]

Thanks I just ran that app. It passed with flying color on all parameters and reported no error ...

Edit: where is that post about SMART right before this one goes?

Edit2: and Morkornan post now just appeared out of nowhere I swear

[Morkonan]

Thanks I just did. It passed with flying color and reported no error ...

Edit: where is that post about SMART right before this one goes?

Might be a controller issue. Could still be the on-board cache for the drive, though. I don't remember, but I think WD's SMART tools also report on that so they should have checked them rather robustly.

Likely... gremlins. Replace the HD and if you have issues, replace the SATA cable. If you still have issues, get a new motherboard. (ie: Onboard drive controller issue.)

Note: IF it is a problem with the on-board controller, you can bypass the SATA controller by using a USB adapter case for your SATA drive. You can get them at most stores that sell computers, but they're getting harder to find these days. They're a box, instead of just a cable, because common USB doesn't pump enough power to drive the drive, so they have a separate power cord that comes with them. (I don't think even USB 3 pumps enough.)

Note: I was composing my post at the same time you made yours, so the forum had already assigned me an open slot for a post, which accounts for the weirdness. Despite the fact that I am a time-traveller...

[Mightysword]

I fried a couple MB in the past with this HDD (unrelated reasion) and I remember the issue has been around for years so I don't think it's a MB issue. I think I can remember as far as 3-4 years back when something like this pop up, but it was only locally to one specific folder (that I moved over from my very first PC like ... 14 years ago?) I was just assuming it's just a bad sector on the disk. But each years it seems the issue become more noticeable, usually in folder that contains a lot of file like a picture folders with hundreds file.

It's weird to see all these diagnostic tool reporting the drive in perfect condition though. And if the drive had started the failing process years ago I don't think it would last this long. After all this is my test drive, so it's constantly getting abused with tons of GB written and deleted on a regular basic. Starting to think it's the cable ... it's as old as the drive ... if not older.

And you know, base on what you just said it makes sense too. Despite it has been deteriorating over the years, I have NEVER once lost a file due to corruption. Even when file that I can not run on the disk, once I manage to copy it over to another drive I can run it no problem. This seem to be an I/O issue.

Edit: oh and forgot to mention, it's NTSC

[pjknibbs]

I think you mean NTFS, unless your hard drive is actually receiving TV signals?

One thing I would try--just try swapping out the SATA data cable and see if that makes a difference. If that fails, plug it into a different SATA port on your motherboard.

[Morkonan]

...usually in folder that contains a lot of file like a picture folders with hundreds file.

It's weird to see all these diagnostic tool reporting the drive in perfect condition though. And if the drive had started the failing process years ago I don't think it would last this long. After all this is my test drive, so it's constantly getting abused with tons of GB written and deleted on a regular basic. Starting to think it's the cable ... it's as old as the drive ... if not older.
... I have NEVER once lost a file due to corruption. Even when file that I can not run on the disk, once I manage to copy it over to another drive I can run it no problem. This seem to be an I/O issue.

Edit: oh and forgot to mention, it's NTSC

How many pictures are in one folder and how are you accessing them?

I use a lot of textures for 3D. Normally, these are organized a little bit by material/texture type. However, I have several slush folders for interesting textures that I come across, but can't really classify or don't have a current use for. So, they get dumped into that folder as long as they're open license.

IIRC, you said you were using IRFANView, which is a common, freebie, viewer. Is this the only way you ever access this folder? Can you access it using the regular Windows file browser/explorer? (For myself, for quick-viewing or visually hunting for textures, I'll run an old app next to my 3D app while working, because it's just plain faster to load up.)

I know IRFANview has been through several iterations. I don't know how it behaves, but just about every similar app is going to run its own thumbnail cache and keep all of those open and ready. Some will cache viewed images, too, though that's sorta stupid. (Unless it's running a slideshow or presentation, but still stupid...)

The point is that if the only thing you ever use to access this trove of hundreds of pictures is one program, it may not be your system at all, but the program itself causing an issue. And, if it's staying active looking for a drive refresh so it can update thumbs/file-listings, then maybe it's locking down your drive during the problem?

Have you ever had this issue when just using Windows' file explorer? Can you reproduce this issue using that? Can you reproduce it without opening the folder that has all the pictures in it?

PS - How big are these pics and in what format? ie: Are they ginormous, like uncompressed megapixel shots from some camera?

[Mightysword]

How many pictures are in one folder and how are you accessing them?

I only use IrfanView as an example, I can access these folders normally. Plus when the drive start to act up, it'll lock up everything on the drive. I think whenever the problem happens it usually when I access these mega folders, and then it freeze up the drive. I wonder if the large file counts in these folders has some kind of effect.

[Mightysword]

One thing I would try--just try swapping out the SATA data cable and see if that makes a difference. If that fails, plug it into a different SATA port on your motherboard.

Yeah I order a new set of cable too, gonna try that when they arrive. Like I said I do want to salvage this drive, especially if there is no physical problem with it.

Anyway, my replacement comes today, and it's an External USB3 drive. This is the first time I use an external HDD so I have been wondering what is the dis-advantage of using one over the normal internal drive. So far the list of disadvantage I search around seems to be a non-issue to me (security, thief, dropping it on the floor ...etc...)

I'm moving my file now, and the write speed is the same when I was moving between my 2 internal drive (~60mb/sec). Anyone have further thought on it?

[Sinxar]

Seems slow for a usb 3 drive. should be up in the 100MB range. I use an external as well. I plug mine into the rear and leave it on top of the PC so it never moves. I have a WD My Passport Ultra 2TB.

[Masterbagger]

Back up your stuff. It's too easy to do and hard drives are too cheap to justify not doing it. A free program like macrium reflect can create an image of whatever drive you installed windows on that you can use to restore it. If you have high volume folders like a collection of movies just put them on a drive and store it somewhere. Some of my data can't be replaced. There is no source to download every episode of Xena: Warrior Princess anymore. My collection was painstakingly harvested from media purchased as a box set of DVD's in Afghanistan from a somewhat shady merchant of bootlegs enriching himself on American dollars from US G.I.'s craving entertainment from home and willing to give dollars to a potential Taliban supporter to see Lucy Lawless in a leather bikini doing cheesy action scenes.

So what I'm saying is plug in a hard drive you won't use, copy all your important stuff, make sure you got windows installation on it, and put it in your closet. Drag it out a couple times a year and update it. If your PC takes a crap like mine did last year you lose months of data vs years. If you have stuff you don't want a thief to take like my own scanned medical, military, and tax records package it all in truecrypt. It's minimal effort and expense with a high payout if you ever need it.

[pjknibbs]

Seems slow for a usb 3 drive. should be up in the 100MB range.

It could be limited by the read speed of the internal drive rather than the write speed of the USB 3, especially if the internal drive is a bit flaky.

[Mightysword]

Seems slow for a usb 3 drive. should be up in the 100MB range.

It could be limited by the read speed of the internal drive rather than the write speed of the USB 3, especially if the internal drive is a bit flaky.

Yep, can verify. I just copy something from my SSD as a test and it's average 140-150mb/sec. So again, I dont really see any disadvantage in using these External Drive. It's a lot smaller than I expected and seem to hella lot more convenience than the internal drive. Do they have the same life expectancy of a regular internal drive? People seem to talk about these drive as a backup option, but what about using it regularly like a normal drive?

[korio]

Seems slow for a usb 3 drive. should be up in the 100MB range.

It could be limited by the read speed of the internal drive rather than the write speed of the USB 3, especially if the internal drive is a bit flaky.

Yep, can verify. I just copy something from my SSD as a test and it's average 140-150mb/sec. So again, I dont really see any disadvantage in using these External Drive. It's a lot smaller than I expected and seem to hella lot more convenience than the internal drive. Do they have the same life expectancy of a regular internal drive? People seem to talk about these drive as a backup option, but what about using it regularly like a normal drive?

If its an external drive but not SSD, they usually are slower than internal drives, also, their life is usually smaller than a internal hard drive, because people use them to move stuff around, so the disk is more likely to fail earlier.

If you are going to use it only as a desk storage, not moving it, and have free usb 3.0 ports on your computer, its a nice solution for external backups and such.

Also if you want to share that stuff between multiple computer at your home, and as a media source, you can consider buying a NAS, they are getting cheaper and cheaper, and gives some functionality for people with various PC at home that can be worth it.

[Sinxar]

If its an external drive but not SSD, they usually are slower than internal drives

That was true before USB 3 and Thunderbolt where the interface was the limiting factor. A modern HDD that peaks around 60MB/s regardless of whether it is external or not is unheard of unless there is something wrong with it.