Setting up a true Home Network...

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Morkonan
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Setting up a true Home Network...

Post by Morkonan » Fri, 22. Jun 18, 00:57

Back in the day when I actually worked, I had a building that had a real-live, old-school, communications center in it with a nice networking/IT room. I wired up all of our comms system, myself, including our networking stuffs. It was seriously "Old School" with archaic PBX "punchblock" networks and RJ-45 "dongle style" conversion connectors. But, it worked and I was proud. :)

Recently, my basement got flooded and I am currently renovating. It's going to take months with several different contractors coming in to do the things I don't want to do, myself, 'cause "screw that, I don't wanna do it" sort of stuff.

But, moving all my electronics stuff upstairs and then debugging connection issues has been a learning experience - I have learned I need a decent network box/setup that is centrally located instead of the haphazard "what is this wire for" setup I have now. :) Luckily, I have easy access to everywhere I could possibly want to run any sort of cable, so that's "good." What's "bad" is I don't know where I want all those connections, which is likely "everywhere"...

Yes, I know, "Bbbut why u no WiFi all?" Because, I like wires. Wires are good. Wires are sure. Wires are wires. I was born into wires... Plus, I think the neighbor's kid keeps trying my system, so there is that to consider. (No need to go into recommendations, there.)

So, X-OT, the place where inane recommendations are the order of the day, how about some interesting suggestions? Should I try hooking up an arduino DNS server? Run multiple subnets for all my stuff? (Thinking about possibly hooking in a 3D render-farm-ish box) What about streaming media stuffs? Should I?

Why?

After I moved my network, I had issues... I checked everything I had set up, but it took more effort than it should have. Even so, it all checked out fine. It turned out to be the modem which was borked. (Cable company came out.) The cable broadband provider would do all of this for a fee, of course, but... I know I'm a masochist when I say I miss setting up network stuffs. :) And, I'd like to be able to just go to a networking cabinet and diagnose issues right there, with everything right there in front of me, rather than clamber all over the darn house.

Needs statement:

Multiple hardline PC access points
Possible secondary WiFi points
Multiple, quality, Coax points (Considering combo wall connector units, RJ-45/Coax/Phone (Yes, I also have hardline phones, wanna fight about it? :) )
Possible subnet dedicated for comms for 3D rendering farm box. (Have considered a rackmount.. Might get some components cheap)
Two major AV hubs with network/console/multimedia capability. (Can localize streaming, but it needs to be able to touch these areas directly)

Why#2 - 'Cause everyone needs stuff to fiddle with. :)

So, post your "Ur an idiot, Mork" comments, but be sure to include a suggestion or a list of "Don't do this unless you want to catch your house on fire" links. :)

PS - I will have months to do this, since the renovations/repairs are going to take a long while and I can make a huge mess without any worries about crap being strewn everywhere.

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Post by euclid » Fri, 22. Jun 18, 03:15

I'm a cable fan myself.

Drilled holes through walls, clamped ethernet cables along the wall/ceiling just to get hard access points from my office to both of my kids rooms and to the Missus' retreat. Only exception is our living room PC which mainly serves as interface between the satellite dishes and the TV. I've connected it to our main router via a powerline adapter.

I've once tried a server setup but it turned out to be too maintenance hungry. A good router setup is just fine.

Good luck with your mission and keep us updated on the progress ;-)

Cheers Euclid
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Post by pjknibbs » Fri, 22. Jun 18, 06:52

If you want networking connections everywhere, then do it! It's not like they carry any power (usually, ignoring PoE for now) so you could have a header in the bathroom if you really wanted--once you've committed to rewiring everything anyway you might as well go whole hog. The only decision to really make is where you want the networking patch panel to be, because I'm guessing the basement is out?

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Post by korio » Fri, 22. Jun 18, 09:17

What i would do, it can be a bit expensive but, if you dont want wireless and want conections everywhere.

Place in each power outlet of the house 1 or 2 RJ45.

Wire them all to your "control center".

Place there a "nice & cheap" switch (maybe also a patch panel), depending on the size of your house one with 24 ports should be enough.

Place there also your network provider router and wire it to the switch.

You can place there also a computer for multimedia streaming over the house.


And now, the funny part, config the switch and make some Vlans, you should have a map of where goes each port, so you can configure it to separate each part of your network, for example, one vlan only for rendering, other for multimedia streaming and another one for general use of internet.

This way you can manage it all and have a located hub for everything.


Also, if you want to go a step more, you can configure in the multimedia machine a DHCP and DNS server, and a domain controller, then config your devices like domain devices and have the functions of a domain, like accesing files with "\\Computername\C$" sharing folders and more in a safer way.

Also if your neighbor wants to crack your wifi, you can see if he is able to do it and scare him a bit :twisted:

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Post by apogee » Fri, 22. Jun 18, 14:00

I too have recently wired up most of the stuff i use.

ran an ethernet cable to my desk from router to a switch then connected Pc's to that.

then separate cables to xbox and a nowtv box.

i would recomend wiring as its certainly speeded things up, when compared to when i just used wifi.

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Post by jlehtone » Fri, 22. Jun 18, 16:12

euclid wrote:I'm a cable fan myself.
+1
There is no such thing as "too many wires".


We had apartment building renovation recently and I ordered, as extra, pairs of Cat6 to most rooms (but sadly not to all*). They all converge to patch panel. Neat, but (a) the electrician did not bother to label them, and more importantly (b) the panel is in metal cabinet that has power for two devices, but no room for more than tiny devices. Claustrofobic.

Somewhat manageable though, for upstream (ISP) is Cat6. Hence no need for modem or fiber-copper conversion.

What I could fit was Ubiquity ER-poe5 router and an unmanaged switch. The devices and patch panel are in closed cabined, which allows patch cables of all colours (red/white/gray/black/blue/purple/yellow/...). That helps tracking connection from patch panel port (that I have labeled) to switch/router port.

If you have option/room for a rack for patch panels and devices, then go for it.


The ER-poe5 is very configurable. I have it resolve (completely unofficial) DNS names for every device and hand out static addresses via DHCP. Ubiquiti has now wider selection of routers to choose from, and I would have opted for managed (PoE) switch too, if I had space. VLAN's, etc.


While I don't appreciate WiFi, I have it. With Ubiquiti Unifi access points. Currently two. Powered via PoE. No visible antennas. No other functions than the AP. Configurable over net. Preferable installation to ceiling*. They get power from my router. White dish, like plafond or smoke alarm, no led.


* If I had foreseen / if it had been feasible, I would have preinstalled Cat6 to middle of ceiling on the rooms, where AP placement is logical/optimal.


The Ubiquiti is not the only vendor with configurable, reasonably priced devices. Anything that allows your goal #2 is good.


Lets recap:
* Wires
* Spacious central panel
* Router routes
* AP transforms wireless to wired
* Wires
* Man of the house has total control
* Good markings, lest we forget
* Good quality wires

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Post by birdtable » Fri, 22. Jun 18, 18:34

I think wires/wired is a man thing ,,, no wires/wifi is an opposite sex thing,,, :).. A bit like HiFi equipment.

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Post by CBJ » Fri, 22. Jun 18, 18:50

When I bought my house it needed some rewiring work done, so I asked the electrician whether he could install network cabling at the same time. As luck would have it his brother was a network engineer, so they did the job between them and I got network sockets in all the main rooms. I don't regret that decision at all. Wireless has its place, for laptops, printers, tablets, etc. but for "static" devices such as gaming PCs and smart TVs, wired networking is definitely better.

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Post by mrbadger » Fri, 22. Jun 18, 19:55

I was going to go the cabling route, I even had the chance to get them run along with the wiring when our extension was done, but decided against it.

Ethernet over Power Cable is so good now it just wasn't worth the bother. Were I still heavily into high intensity online gaming things might be different, but the games I play seem happy with even wireless. Not that I have much time for gaming right now.

As a solution it works really well. The short wireless hop to my router in the next room, then the trip over the power cable to my data store happens as fast as I'd expect from a traditional wired network with a wireless endpoint.

There is the advantage that I can relocate my RAID array without any rewiring.

I did used to enjoy cabling up my old houses though.

I had some of that fun today when I assembled my new teaching cluster and discovered I hadn't bought enough cat 6 patch cables, I'm one short. So I've got to raid a server room next tuesday.
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Post by Morkonan » Fri, 22. Jun 18, 21:35

Some great suggestions and encouragement from everyone!

I'm definitely going with a patch panel. I just have to hunt one down. And, I'll need to take a look at the local telco suppliers, too, so I can see what they carry. (The businesses that sell all the cool stuffs to the smaller telco guys. Gotta be one around here, somewhere.)

euclid - "Drilled holes through walls.."

That's an issue, here. Everything is plaster and lathe. I've never dealt with plaster and lathe... It's a new animal to me. Luckily, I have easy access to floor and ceiling for where I need to go. But, still, it's plaster and lathe and I'm "lost" there. Need to watch some youtube stuffs on how to deal with that effectively.

pjknibbs - "The only decision to really make is where you want the networking patch panel to be, because I'm guessing the basement is out?"

The basement is "in." The actual amount of water wasn't too bad. But, because it was a fully finished basement, fully carpeted, the water wicked everywhere. I just finished with the repair/prevention plan, today, but the contractors won't be able to start for another three months. Lots of homes were hard-hit due to terrible rains last month.

I have a sort of connection room, already, where everything is centrally located. Power/alarm/utilities, and that room is secure from water issues, so it's a logical place for a patch panel.

korio - "Place in each power outlet of the house 1 or 2 RJ45. "

That's what I'm considering, at least for all the rooms where it would be useful. But, there are a couple of issues:

1) I really need to get the house "load balanced" in terms of power. The house was built quite awhile ago and they didn't have high-draw computers, entertainment centers with five different power connections, etc.. So, some rooms, in my opinion, have more of a load at the panel than they should. I need a new circuit breaker panel, too, in my opinion. (The one I have is an antique. Not "fuse-style" but darn old.) Not a terribly big job, but just annoying. The other issue is that all the outlets on one floor need to be replaced, anyway, because they're old ungrounded outlets. (I think half the outlet covers are "Bakelite.") So, that's an issue to be addressed. Time to call some electricians, 'cause I don't play with electricity. :)

2) I want more coax connections than I have, currently. So, I will definitely be using the opportunity to combine a coax/rj-45 combo plug in a number of rooms. But... I need to tackle the "Coax Problem" every ISP whines about - Splitting connections from the main feed. And, that central nest will be part of the patch panel area, too. I have no way to control signal strength from the main line, so I need to figure out how or even if I can boost or scrub signal quality from the main coax feed coming in so I can split it to my heart's content. :) I "might" get the ISP to finalize all the connections. They will "eyeball" and even fix panel connections for free, so there is that to consider. (They'll also pull wire if needed, at a cost.)

By locating the coax at the patch panel, I can isolate all the connections and at least ensure signal strength for the network, but every connection added to an unmanaged coax draws signal strength and can introduce interference.

Anyone have any tips on a "good" coax run, something more than just "add splitters everywhere and pray." Anyone know of anything out there to manage coax signals for scrubbing/boosting that won't piss off the ISP? :)

apogee - "i would recomend wiring as its certainly speeded things up, when compared to when i just used wifi."

I run everything wired except, on occasion, my laptop used for typing far too much junk on internetz forums and viewing stupid cat vids. :) I, of course, want to use the wifi capability, but just won't be depending upon it for networking.

jlehtone - "If you have option/room for a rack for patch panels and devices, then go for it...The ER-poe5 is very configurable. I have it resolve (completely unofficial) DNS names for every device and hand out static addresses via DHCP. Ubiquiti has now wider selection of routers to choose from, and I would have opted for managed (PoE) switch too, if I had space. VLAN's, etc.

I have room for a patch panel and the like, but I don't think I'd put a rack there. That is an issue that, if I went with a rackmount render farm, I'd need to do some head-scratching on where to put it and how to allocate power properly. Cooling, for either the panel or any other system, isn't an issue.

On the PoE switch - I haven't ever used PoE so am unfamliar with it. I'll read up on it a bit. But, a full-fledge switch is what I'm looking at. I certainly want to isolate networks, using one for only comm for rendering, since that will get large bursts of traffic.

The PoE suggestion gives rise to another possibility - Home security. I have a great security system, but I could use some exterior cameras. Why? Why not? PoE makes camera installs easy, one assumes. (There's also a big field that accumulates wildlife throughout the day, mostly deer, some foxes, coyotes have been sighted, which is not good. Bear are in the area, but don't usually make it here. Might be relaxing to watch the deer graze, from time to time.)

BTW, my ISP modem/router/stuff combo is supposed to be "top of the line" but as far as management features go, it sucks. That is to be expected. That thing will be going back to the ISP, but I have to check their list of supported mfr/model/bios to see what I can use that they can flash/support.

CBJ - When I bought my house it needed some rewiring work done, so I asked the electrician whether he could install network cabling at the same time.

This might be a "gold" comment. :) I need to rebalance loads and replace outlets, anyway. So, while they're there... Everyone hates pulling wire, though. BUT, they're going to have to pull ground, I bet, and if they're pulling that, they can darn well attach a network cable to the fish at the same time, methinks... Great suggestion and I will include that in my talks with electricians! (You may have saved me some sweat! Treat yourself to one free Mjolnir on me!)

* A note on this: The house is an older house so it is possible that some of it used outdated codes. In some cases, that means an electrician might have to say "If I touch this, I have to redo everything to current code specifications." Homeowners, however, are under no such restrictions for existing, internal, stuffs. We'll see how it goes. I don't want to be forced by power codes to rewire the whole house...

mrbadger - Ethernet over Power Cable is so good now... So I've got to raid a server room next tuesday.

My lines probably suck. They are likely older than I am and probably insulated with asbestos or something... Plus, I don't like the concept and managing it would definitely be unfamiliar. (No idea how that works)

The server room has those things laying around everywhere, cases and cases of them. (I have more than I have use for. Doesn't everyone have that "box full of wires, connectors and adapters" that they keep adding to for no particular reason? :) ) But, grabbing one of out of a random box is no fun... Take one from whichever light is blinking fastest, 'cause that's obviously the best cable, right? Those guys don't work hard enough, anyway, amiright? :D

Gotta set down and plan all this stuff. Electrician, hardware considerations (ISP), brush up on PoE, find a local telco supplier (I like frequenting local businesses when I can), and... need to make a list of lists of things to do.

Thanks all! It's an ongoing project in the info-gathering/planning stages, right now. Any comments welcome and I'll report progress or interesting bits. If I burn the house down, expect a brief delay...

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Post by Morkonan » Sun, 24. Jun 18, 07:36

This router/modem sucks... But, it won't be around for long.

I was going through the full feature sets for what I have and, while it wasn't terrible, it was still annoying.

I hate looking at logs. Yeah, I know, you need to do that from time to time. But, there's so much crap there. I got white hats running their scans, idgits in China trying to hit weird ports, Russians trying to terminal in, some other server banging away at remote management ports, yada yada yada... It's enough to give "just enough to be dangerous to himself" me nightmares. Oh, and whoever had this IP before me evidently loved bittorent, cause there's still people looking for him.

I took my WiFi down, since I wasn't using it after the "flood," because I stuck the modem in my sitting room, where I sits, anyway. AND, it looks like the idgit next door tried broadcasting my old SSID tonight... lolz I'm pretty sure it's him, since he's got a rep as quite the weird teen, by neighbor's reports, and this is just his sort of thing.

/sigh

People shouldn't have to worry with this crap. They really shouldn't. I'm fine, everything is OK, but dang... Just don't need this crap.

No, I'm not going to bother with him. IIRC, he just got back from some sort of "reform" program or some crap after doing "weird stuff." Just have to brush up on some stuff, myself, that's all.

Now, more than ever, I know I need a better network than I have right now.

PS - Oh, I forgot, and some IP out of Germany looking for open Steam ports... <ahem>

PS - Anyone know if Egosoft blocks common VPN IPs? Just askin'....:)

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Post by red assassin » Sun, 24. Jun 18, 11:40

In your place I think I'd be tempted to connect something to the old SSID, open a random UDP port to some random target IP, and flood it with random data. Trying to figure out what that is will keep him amused for a while.
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Post by mrbadger » Sun, 24. Jun 18, 11:55

One huge advantage I had when connecting up my Ethernet over Power Cable setup was that it is all over new cabling, so there is no question is problems due to physical cable deterioration.

The only issues I've had is with the internet router my provider gave me to use. I have to reboot that once a month or my internal network slows to a crawl. I might bypass it for internal traffic soon and get rid of that issue.
Last edited by mrbadger on Sun, 24. Jun 18, 16:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by jlehtone » Sun, 24. Jun 18, 15:00

mrbadger wrote:the internet router ... I might bypass it for internal traffic soon and get rid of that issue.
Wired traffic: decent 8-port 1Gpbs unmanaged switches sell for £20.

IMHO:
The sole purpose of modem should be to convert <something>* into (wired) Ethernet traffic.
The sole purpose of router should be to route between ISP subnet and home subnet(s).
The sole purpose of wireless access point should be to convert between wired and wireless Ethernet traffic.

Separate devices are easier to debug/replace, and are probably more purpose-built than the All-In-One that the ISP love to provide.


There are both standards and nonstandard implementations for PoE. Both the suppliers (router, switch, power injector) and consumers (APs, cameras, switches, routers) must support the same implementation, unless you desire smoke signalling.


* Analog phone signal, ISDN, *DSL, cable TV signal, Ethernet over Power. There is no need "to modem" copper Ethernet into copper Ethernet, nor light Ethernet into electricity Ethernet.

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Post by mrbadger » Sun, 24. Jun 18, 16:46

I am thoroughly fed up with the entire thing.

I have an unused Apple Airport sat upstairs. Unused because our bedroom moved downstairs, it's far better than my ISP's device at wireless reception, I only use it now to host my Time machine backup drive. I could bring that down and use that as our internal wireless access point, then buy another switch so I could stop using the modem for anything but net connectivity.

I'll do that next weekend in fact.
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Post by Morkonan » Sun, 24. Jun 18, 21:25

red assassin wrote:In your place I think I'd be tempted to connect something to the old SSID, open a random UDP port to some random target IP, and flood it with random data. Trying to figure out what that is will keep him amused for a while.
The heck with random IPs... Just repeatedly attempt and drop connections to whatever blacklist of malicious sites I can find and make his IP really popular for awhile.

But, there is the notion of leaving well enough alone, too. He's... weird.

He's also popped up several open guest accounts. He does that every weekend. Could be just a router that doesn't get turned on unless he's playing console games, or he could just be trying to honeypot or something. Anyway, I've decided the prudent course of action is just to leave him alone unless I see him tracing my lines to the local box...

****

Was looking at "Home Networking Cabinets" to see what sort of neat enclosures were out there. These people are stoned... Some of the suggested prices are just stupid. $400 for what amounts to a glorified breakout box? This is something likely best sourced locally if it can be managed. Otherwise, I'll just build or convert something.

However, something new has introduced itself: MoCA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedi ... x_Alliance

I came across this when I saw the MoCA settings on my new rig and dug around a bit.

It's relatively new and not firmly adopted, but has anyone here had experience with it? (Multimedia over Coax) It's basically very similar to mrbadger's Ethernet over Wire setup, but it's designed for ethernet and broadband streaming over existing coax cabling. I don't think I'd rely on it for my network build, but it could have advantages I don't know about, since I'm unfamiliar with it. I do, after all, have to run coax to new rooms, too.

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