Combat Simulator in X4

[Falcrack]

One feature I have long thought would be great, but was sadly missing in the X series so far, is to have a combat simulator within the game. Here’s how I envision it working:

1. Player docks at a station and goes up to a combat simulator kiosk/room. Alternatively, you could simply enter it from the game main menu.

2. Once there you can set up custom combat scenarios, from small 1 on 1 fighter engagements, to entire fleet battles, or choose from or modify preset scenarios.

3. You can fully customize the loadout (weapons, shields, missiles) and type of ships on both sides, and pick from several different possible arenas. Perhaps you could have a certain amount of points to spend, with each ship and loadout type costing a certain amount of points.

4. You can customize ships in terms of performance (speed, hull strength, laser or shield generator, missile capacity, etc), if you wish

5. You can create objectives, such as destroy a station, destroy the enemy fleet, defend a station, capture the flag (ship that captured the flag is highlighted to make it a primary target, and it tries to get back to base, drop it off, and defend it there for a given amount of time), or simply keep a station alive over multiple recurring waves of enemies for as long as possible

6. You can specify when and where reinforcements will arrive for each side.

7. You could create multiple different sides, for a free-for-all, or teams (ie Argon + Teladi vs Split + Paranid), where you would control just the Argon, for example. Or mixed fleets with ships from different factions, whatever.

8. Once in the battle, you have full control over the ships on your side, and can switch to different owned ships at will.

9. Perhaps your ability to unlock certain ship types is dependent on your game rank gained from playing previously, or combat rank gained fighting in the open universe, so you do not start the game being able to play with all ships, but need to unlock them over time. Or not, just have everything unlocked from the start, either way is fine for me.

10. You get a score at the end, depending on how many enemy ships you destroyed, minus the ships you lost, objectives completed, enemy objective completed, personal survival, time to complete, etc.

11. If you personally die, the scenario does not end, but you no longer are in direct command of your forces, they act for themselves based on the given objectives and previous orders. You can still watch it play out from a ghost perspective, though.

12. You can save the parameters for combat scenarios and share them with other real world players, or choose from locked preset combat scenarios and compete for the best score, which would be uploaded to a high score list linked to your Steam ID, which you could view in the game.

13. You could save the game in the middle and come back to it later at the same or different kiosk., or from the game menu.

14. While playing the game, the universe outside is still going on (ie your trade ships are still trading, stations still making goods while you are playing the game). Who knows, the station you are on while playing the combat simulator may be destroyed in the middle of a game. Not applicable if you had entered the combat simulator from the game main menu.

15. A first iteration of multiplayer (not for the full universe with the economy and everything, just the combat simulator) could be considered! Try not to get all irate, anti-multiplayer folks, this would not affect the base, single player game at all.

16. Go have some fun with the carnage!

I assume this would not be in the initial X4 release, but personally it is something I would pay full price for in an expansion/DLC. It is something that would be great in X3 too, if someone could ever make a mod for it. It looks like a long list, but it would basically just be using assets already pretty much already developed for the base single player game. Does this sound like a feature you would enjoy having in X4?

Edit: You need not agree with ever single idea in this list for the purposes of the poll, specific details could vary.

[Fedora01]

I give this a solid "nth dimensional maybe" (leaning towards the 10th dimensional kinda, not 7th dimensional possibly). Though in all seriousness this would be cool for a DLC or in a future update.

[adeine]

15. A first iteration of multiplayer (not for the full universe with the economy and everything, just the combat simulator) could be considered! Try not to get all irate, anti-multiplayer folks, this would not affect the base, single player game at all.

Hey, I know what will make X4 sell $$$$$$$$$$$BIG BUCKS$$$$$$$$$$$... have you considered, and you may want to grab a seat, X4 - Battle Royale mode? Say it with me folks,


Winner winner bofu dinner*


*bofu dinner not included in base game - available through ingame X4 GOLD battle pass subscription IT'S JUST COSMETIC

[Falcrack]

15. A first iteration of multiplayer (not for the full universe with the economy and everything, just the combat simulator) could be considered! Try not to get all irate, anti-multiplayer folks, this would not affect the base, single player game at all.

Hey, I know what will make X4 sell $$$$$$$$$$$BIG BUCKS$$$$$$$$$$$... have you considered, and you may want to grab a seat, X4 - Battle Royale mode? Say it with me folks,


Winner winner bofu dinner*


*bofu dinner not included in base game - available through ingame X4 GOLD battle pass subscription IT'S JUST COSMETIC

I should have skipped the multiplayer idea altogether, it is not central to the idea, or necessary, and I knew some people reflexively react negatively and hostile whenever the word multiplayer of any kind is mentioned in context with X. It's just that a purely combat simulator would not require communicating the state of the entire universe, just the local arena, and would lend itself more naturally to this type of gameplay. Not trying to diminish the technical difficulties in implementing multiplayer, I figure they are significant, though far from insurmountable if that would be the direction they wanted to go in.

Still, combat simulator anyone? Different from arena commander in Star Citizen or CQC in Elite, because in this case, you could give orders to all the other ships on your side, and involve capital ships. And set up custom combat scenarios. It would be more of a fleet battle instead of one on one battle.

[Vandragorax]

I honestly don't think this sort of feature would be that widely used by the community.

It's reminding me a bit of the "Arena" mode promised for Diablo 3, which never materialised on launch because there were so many balancing issues that the devs basically gave up Years later there's still no Arena mode for D3 lol

The problem with it is that it's taking players out of the universe that they invest time and knowledge into and forcing them only to do 1 thing. I believe the vast majority of players would prefer a 1-4 player drop-in co-op experience over an Arena mode for mocking up battles since it would actually allow them to play with their friends in the already existing game universe, using all the game mechanics available.

Not everyone actually enjoys having huge fleet battles, or doing combat at all in X games don't forget... there are plenty who love the exploring side, and the empire building side over combat

[adeine]

I should have skipped the multiplayer idea altogether, it is not central to the idea, or necessary, and I knew some people reflexively react negatively and hostile whenever the word multiplayer of any kind is mentioned in context with X. It's just that a purely combat simulator would not require communicating the state of the entire universe, just the local arena, and would lend itself more naturally to this type of gameplay. Not trying to diminish the technical difficulties in implementing multiplayer, I figure they are significant, though far from insurmountable if that would be the direction they wanted to go in.

Still, combat simulator anyone? Different from arena commander in Star Citizen or CQC in Elite, because in this case, you could give orders to all the other ships on your side, and involve capital ships. And set up custom combat scenarios. It would be more of a fleet battle instead of one on one battle.

To be fair, I was mostly joking, not intended to come across as hostile/whatnot.

In all seriousness though, this seems like a waste of development time that would take away from other features of the game. Doesn't really fit in with the gameplay or setting either, it would feel like a tacked on arcadey gimmick (and I don't think the X series needs more pointless minigames).

It's an idea for a mod, but not something I'd personally like to see as part of an X game.

[CBJ]

Sorry, but this is just another "let's make a whole new game and bundle it in with the existing one for free" idea that is really, really unlikely to happen for reasons that shouldn't be hard to deduce.

Ironically enough the only part of it that does, potentially, make a little bit of sense is the mutli-player arena concept, because it limits the scope of what has to be communicated between clients. But then all you're getting is a generic space shooter without any of the things that make X games different, and it's still a whole new game-within-a-game.

[Ezarkal]

I personally tend to keep my X gameplay to empire building spiked up with sporadic, frenzied and unpredicted fight for my own survival.
The arena concept would totally move me away from my first objective, and make the fighting events dull by removing what actually spices them up (the unpredictability of the damn pirate wing that jumps you when you think you're safe).

So it is an interesting concept, but I wouldn't use it, except maybe once in a while to compare strengths between different assets.

[TheDeliveryMan]

If I really wanted to test some ships in battle, I'd just create my own game start and spawn all the ships per script. No need for an in-game combat simulator.

[Falcrack]

If I really wanted to test some ships in battle, I'd just create my own game start and spawn all the ships per script. No need for an in-game combat simulator.

Except that requires knowledge of scripting and is not so user friendly.

Seriously, the main addition for this idea to work is a UI to be able to place the ships at a start point, give them objectives, and go. 99% of the remainder is already made for the game. CBJ, I think you are exaggerating quite a bit when you say "make a whole new game for free". The base game will already be made, this would just be a convenient tool for setting up battles to test out different ship types. There were some points in that list I would gladly drop (score system, capture the flag, etc), which were just some thoughts on what could make it work better, but are you saying that a tool for the player to set up custom combat scenarios would be so far out of reach? I'm not a programmer, but this does not seem like something which is outside the realm of the possible by any means.

Also, about the "for free" part, did I not mention explicitly that I would be willing to pay extra for something like this as part of a DLC?

[Honved]

I agree that this suggested feature would use mostly existing assets and game mechanics, so it wouldn't be the hardest thing to implement. On the other hand, I don't have a lot of reason to use it.

Overall, it's probably a marginal feature for a marginal development cost, which puts it pretty far down the priority list unless there's some additional purpose for having it in the game. Right now I'm not seeing one.

[CBJ]

Seriously, the main addition for this idea to work is a UI to be able to place the ships at a start point, give them objectives, and go. 99% of the remainder is already made for the game. CBJ, I think you are exaggerating quite a bit when you say "make a whole new game for free".

With all due respect, I'm not the one who is exaggerating. The idea that 99% of what you described is already there is wildly inaccurate.

1. We don't have a kiosk or a simulator environment.
2. Setting up scenarios is done via the MD. Having a means to do that in-game would be a massive undertaking.
3. We have ship customisation, but this is based on upgrades you can buy, not just selecting any values you like. Changing that would be a lot of work and would impact on the normal game.
4. See 3.
5. See 2.
6. See 2.
7. See 2.
8. Subject to any restrictions on teleporting that are defined in the normal game, this one might actually work!
9. We don't "unlock" things like that, so that's a new system.
10. Scoring would be a completely new system.
11. New system.
12. New system.
13. Works if your arena is completely separate from the normal game, but otherwise it's another completely new system.
14. See 13.
15. I don't even need to comment on this.

And this is before you even consider all the other things that go into making a proper commercial game, rather than just putting together a mod. People always underestimate these things.

It's not just about who would (or perhaps more importantly wouldn't) pay for it. We are a small team, and we cannot afford to spread our resources too thinly. Making one game is difficult enough; trying to make two and stitch them together would be madness.

Ideas are great, but perhaps if you were to suggest things that fitted within the existing game rather than whole new modes of play, the response might be a bit more positive.

[Jawms]

Honestly, this sounds like something a mod would be more likely to introduce. However nowhere near as complicated as you've outlined..

I wanted it in X3 to test how the AI handles different weapons and ships.. Is a faster ship better than a slow ship? Hard hitting highdrain weapons? Or weaker slow drain weapons. Cap ship size, does it matter much? Is this new mod ship I DLed too OP? etc.

[Tenlar Scarflame]

I agree, this feels like mod/DLC territory to me. It's an example of something that is *logically* straightforward but would require setting up a lot more new systems and interfaces than you might expect.

It would, of course, be a VERY welcome mod... if anyone recalls the X3 Fleet Fest and how much fun that was, and also how much of a humongous pain it was to manually set up each fight >.>

[Mightysword]

Why would we want a simulation inside a simulation game?

I think I would much prefer for most of what you said to play out in actual gameplay rather than a kios. I think part of the goal is "want to have a battle with big fleet? Work and earn a big fleet first!" Having the ability to just simulate that experience ahead of time gonna cheapen it. It would be like paying for a movie ticket just to watch the ending.

[radcapricorn]

Sheesh, what's with all those poll options? There are only so many ways to say "yes" or "no". "Yes, but..." is a "no". "No, but" is still a "no". Come on...

The idea does sound cool for the most part though. I know if I was making a game and someone had such an idea, I'd put it into my "to consider" bag. But not until I was done making the game how I wanted it to be.

[-Dna-]

Why would we want a simulation inside a simulation game?

Because many of us like to play with Excel and test every single possibility

But really, build a simple script/gamestart like the one used in the XFF should not be a problem. I think there is already an adaptation of this script for XR somewhere

[Sorkvild]

Like the Armax Arena for Mass Effect 3. That would be something! A nice break from the main game without need of use third party scripts to set up battles.
I'd even pay for such combat simulation framework where player can set up battles in different environment, face challenging scenarios etc and earn achievements. This could work but only if the AI was worth "something", sorry the AI combat skill in all previous games was a joke.

[Snafu_X3]

IIRC there was a simple 'combat sim' in X2 (possibly before) which allowed 1x1 (or maybe 1x many) fights in simmode, simply to accustom <player> to different wep/ship layout capabilities & combos without risking lives. I've no idea how much it was used; I personally didn't use it much, but with combat being so much expanded since then I can see its usefulness in at least understanding how an individiual ship will perform vs assorted opponents

TL;DR: I think the idea is a good one, but probably not achieveable in the forthcoming release, esp. given CBJ's coments

[Falcrack]

All the people saying probably not going to happen in the next release, I think I explicitly said in the OP that it was an idea for a DLC/expansion. A paid one at that.

It was an idea, a suggestion for something in the future. I'm not trying to be entitled, I would be willing to pay a reasonable price for it. I was trying to gauge what sort of interest other people had in the idea by including a poll. Egosoft can take my suggestions or leave them (the same with the X4 as RTS suggestion), they are just that, suggestions from a player who has spent thousands of hours playing various iterations of X games, and who has thought quite a bit about what I would consider fun.

Other people may not share my idea of what would be fun, and they are welcome to disagree, but I repeat, none of what I am asking for is anything I even remotely expected to be included in the first release.