Argon Titan

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Emmgel
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Argon Titan

Post by Emmgel » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 18:01

Either I need more piloting lessons in this thing or it seems rather underpowered for the money.

To relate: I recently purchased and outfitted said Titan with the full complement of Gamma PPCs, Beta PPCs, full shields - best I could buy from factories.

First off I went to an average, bog-standard Pirate Base - and was very impressed. Orinocos exploded by the dozen as I parked just outside the gate at a distance of 5.5, fired off a missile to annoy the occupants, then set all turrets to autonomous and went for a cup of tea while bangs sounded from the computer room. All well and good.

Resounding success on fighter demolition then. However, on entering a Xenon sector and engaging one of the lone battleships that float randomly around such sectors with a kind of aimless malice, there was a very tale to be told. What had been relatively easy for my Osprey with PSGs proved rather too much for my Titan. It was out-run by a considerable margin in terms of top speed, equally gunned (roughly, didn't check exactly) and equally shielded. Very much a no-score draw when I jumped out in disgust.

I realise that two M2 craft - one Xenon, one Argon - probably will tend towards a stalemate or close to mutual destruction in a one-on-one face off, especially given the dependance on AI that both ship weapon systems require. The fact that Xenon M2's (and probably by logical extention Argon M2's) fall fairly readily to an Osprey with PSGs, do give the rather unbalanced picture of two ships with the maximum-powered equipment - one costing 15 million, the other around 100 million - which appear to be reversed in terms of attacking power. The Titan is undoubtedly the better option for fighter destruction, but paying 100 million credits in order to AFK-splat Orinocos and Bayamons seems a little much, as does trashing a sizeable number of dedicated 100 million credit battleships in a corvette.

My suggestion would be, for those seeking a more realistic game experience, to remove PSG weapons from your calculations/shopping lists. Frankly they are unbalancing - if you want to use them, fine and I couldn't care less, but they are, as the above dictates, a little silly.

The other alternative would be for Egosoft to make PSGs far more difficult to obtain (maybe even remove the stupid things) and the Combat Rating rewards for destroying Xenon capital ships made a great deal higher.

In my opinion Egosoft could make this an optional install for those that wish a more realistic gaming experience: No PSGS, greater rewards for trashing capital ships - you lose on one hand, you gain on the other, and M2 ships become a more competitive purchase.

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Ferd Harling
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Post by Ferd Harling » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 18:06

Equip your Titan with PPCs & you will have a much better chance, due to there long range et. :)
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JackScratch
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Post by JackScratch » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 18:07

The problem is more with the Osprey being too insanely powerful for the price than any weakness in the Titan.

But try mounting some APSGs & Ions on your Titan (yes it can use them)and take it for another test drive in Xenon space. You'll have a little more fun than your last.

Jethro Smiles
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Post by Jethro Smiles » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 18:15

You could always buy both and leave the Titan on ai and fly the Osprey yourself, best of both worlds sort of thing :gruebel:
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|karus
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Post by |karus » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 18:17

I would say that the psg's are not the real problem, they just make trashing capital ships faster, not easier. It's quite easy do down cap ships with GHEPT's too.
I never use psg's, 'cause you don't even have to aim the things, just shoot in the general direction, and that seems a little boring to me. But they are still adding variation to the game, so I think removing them would be a bad idea. Maybe they need some downgrading, so they won't be so overly powerful vs. cap ships. Less hits per shot maybe?
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, it's the cap ships that need to be beefed up. Solution would be to up the speed of PPC shots about 5 times (maybe even more?), so they could track you while you are strafing.

Edit: Also, beefing up the damage of PPC's might put them on the same level as PSG's in cap ship vs. cap ship combat, and balance them out some more. I know there is a script for this but using scripts feel like cheating :P

Second edit: typo :P
Last edited by |karus on Fri, 16. Apr 04, 20:52, edited 2 times in total.

James_2k
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Re: Argon Titan

Post by James_2k » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 18:21

Emmgel wrote:Either I need more piloting lessons in this thing or it seems rather underpowered for the money.

To relate: I recently purchased and outfitted said Titan with the full complement of Gamma PPCs, Beta PPCs, full shields - best I could buy from factories.

First off I went to an average, bog-standard Pirate Base - and was very impressed. Orinocos exploded by the dozen as I parked just outside the gate at a distance of 5.5, fired off a missile to annoy the occupants, then set all turrets to autonomous and went for a cup of tea while bangs sounded from the computer room. All well and good.

Resounding success on fighter demolition then. However, on entering a Xenon sector and engaging one of the lone battleships that float randomly around such sectors with a kind of aimless malice, there was a very tale to be told. What had been relatively easy for my Osprey with PSGs proved rather too much for my Titan. It was out-run by a considerable margin in terms of top speed, equally gunned (roughly, didn't check exactly) and equally shielded. Very much a no-score draw when I jumped out in disgust.

I realise that two M2 craft - one Xenon, one Argon - probably will tend towards a stalemate or close to mutual destruction in a one-on-one face off, especially given the dependance on AI that both ship weapon systems require. The fact that Xenon M2's (and probably by logical extention Argon M2's) fall fairly readily to an Osprey with PSGs, do give the rather unbalanced picture of two ships with the maximum-powered equipment - one costing 15 million, the other around 100 million - which appear to be reversed in terms of attacking power. The Titan is undoubtedly the better option for fighter destruction, but paying 100 million credits in order to AFK-splat Orinocos and Bayamons seems a little much, as does trashing a sizeable number of dedicated 100 million credit battleships in a corvette.

My suggestion would be, for those seeking a more realistic game experience, to remove PSG weapons from your calculations/shopping lists. Frankly they are unbalancing - if you want to use them, fine and I couldn't care less, but they are, as the above dictates, a little silly.

The other alternative would be for Egosoft to make PSGs far more difficult to obtain (maybe even remove the stupid things) and the Combat Rating rewards for destroying Xenon capital ships made a great deal higher.

In my opinion Egosoft could make this an optional install for those that wish a more realistic gaming experience: No PSGS, greater rewards for trashing capital ships - you lose on one hand, you gain on the other, and M2 ships become a more competitive purchase.
Here Here! i am against Psg's and the osprey but i realise that some people will enjoy killing things easily (maybe they picked x2 up instead of *insert PS2 game here*) so i wont go on about it :) but what i will say is that X2 is good in that if you dont want to use psgs you dont have to, this is not perfect because i would like to use all of the weapons at my disposal in order to crush the teladi :) but i will have to make do with ppc's.

JamieKnowles
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Post by JamieKnowles » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 18:29

Arrggg,

We want Egosoft to be puting content in, not taking it out.

Surely???

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|karus
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Post by |karus » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 18:31

JamieKnowles wrote:Arrggg,

We want Egosoft to be puting content in, not taking it out.

Surely???
Agreed :)
either put stuff in, balance what's there, or both :D

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Ferd Harling
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Post by Ferd Harling » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 18:40

|karus wrote:
JamieKnowles wrote:Arrggg,

We want Egosoft to be puting content in, not taking it out.

Surely???
Agreed :)
either put stuff in, balance what's there, or both :D
The best idea I've read! But how long before we see such a change? . .
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Midge
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Post by Midge » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 18:41

With titan vs K, strafe drive is the equalizer. (though some consider strafe drive also to be unbalancing) With strafe drive, you can out manuever the K and avoid incoming fire. It is still not a 100% cure-all though, at least not for me. I still died 2 or 3 times going 1 on 1 against a K. I'm still way ahead having blown away over 50 Ks since I got my titan about a week ago and just got my promotion to combat ace 1st last night. BTW a contributing factor to my promotion last night was a swarm of Ls bigger than any I've seen before. Didn't count them, but the list on the sector map was nearly 4 pages.

Attattenattentionattattentionmissileattatten..............attention missile approaching. :evil: Strafe drive helps here also. :D

James_2k
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Post by James_2k » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 18:45

Midge wrote:With titan vs K, strafe drive is the equalizer. (though some consider strafe drive also to be unbalancing) With strafe drive, you can out manuever the K and avoid incoming fire. It is still not a 100% cure-all though, at least not for me. I still died 2 or 3 times going 1 on 1 against a K. I'm still way ahead having blown away over 50 Ks since I got my titan about a week ago and just got my promotion to combat ace 1st last night. BTW a contributing factor to my promotion last night was a swarm of Ls bigger than any I've seen before. Didn't count them, but the list on the sector map was nearly 4 pages.

Attattenattentionattattentionmissileattatten..............attention missile approaching. :evil: Strafe drive helps here also. :D
put your psg'd rear turrets to missile def. not many'll get thru. and as long as you dont use the psg against another ship, its not cheating! :)

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Midge
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Post by Midge » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 18:58

Rear guns on missile defense would help some, but those hornets were coming in from all directions as many as a dozen or more at one.

James_2k
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Post by James_2k » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:04

Midge wrote:Rear guns on missile defense would help some, but those hornets were coming in from all directions as many as a dozen or more at one.
well the psg would help, i still dont like using them but as the computer says that one of the main purposes of the psg is for missile def. i still cant see the purpose - "Waste an entire sector using an osprey" though :)

AngryAndroid
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Post by AngryAndroid » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:08

I'm saving up to get a Titan, if I hadn't expanded so quickly recently I might have enough by now. Some say M2's suck, some say otherwise. I expect they are just like any other ship in this game, good for some things, bad for others, but wholy better when you figure out how best to pilot one.
Beating up on the Xenon.

Kitch
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Post by Kitch » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:17

there is a quote in the manual (p27) that suggests a remedy for this problem, as well as providing more gaming challenge. 100 million is a lot of trading and fighting...

"But always remeber this my friend,a word of advice from those who have been before you. Never arrive with two ships if its enough to do the job, bring ten."

Now, still saving for my first M2, I fully intend to buy ten... Mwahahahahaha.

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Post by pjknibbs » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 20:59

If you don't think PSGs are ludicrously powerful when attacking cap ships, consider this: a Paranid Perseus with 3xBPSG on board is at least as effective as the mythical Osprey in taking down cap ships, and in fact I bet one would beat an Osprey too. So we're now in a situation where a ship costing 2 million can outfight and outfly one costing 50 times as much!

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JackScratch
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Post by JackScratch » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 21:04

If you don't think PSGs are ludicrously powerful when attacking cap ships, consider this: a Paranid Perseus with 3xBPSG on board is at least as effective as the mythical Osprey in taking down cap ships, and in fact I bet one would beat an Osprey too. So we're now in a situation where a ship costing 2 million can outfight and outfly one costing 50 times as much!
More to the point, I've done this with 2xAPSGs and a Falcon. (And lets not even bring up the Bayamon) What's crazy is that in a pure PSG situation, taking down an m3 takes around the same amount of time as an m2. That's just plain wrong.

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Ferd Harling
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Post by Ferd Harling » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 21:15

What's this; Competition for me. :D
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Post by Constipated_Vigilante » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 21:31

Yeah, PSGs need serious balancing, and the osprey. When I bought a Paranid Perseus before I sold it back (too little cargo space for my taste), I tried taking on the Zeus in Paranid Prime. I had 2xBPSGs and 1xAHEPT. The PSGs took down the shields in no time. AHEPT did nothing compared to them. I was bewildered at their power, and, of course, how much energy they eat.
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Captain_Elson
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Post by Captain_Elson » Fri, 16. Apr 04, 22:16

No matter what ship you have or how much..(thinking of the word..ah) Skillz you claim you have theres always a ship better suited to certin styles of combat.

Cap ships can be nibbled to death by Scouts (not including the borron one)
Heavy fighters are out manuvered by Fighters, scouts, and out gunned by Cap ships
Fighters are out gunned by the two above but are faster though still vulerable to scouts
Scouts are nimble fighters that better not be hit by anything more powerful than a slingshot.
Tp/Ts excellent anti rear missile...don't take on anything BUT scouts
TL Excellent Rammer's ship though try not to take on a cap

Thats just the basics and the situation at hand also comes into play..as well as the player.

To some the titan is a dream ship that can eat up wave after wave of enemies, to others its a floating pile of Space junk.
To some the...Ospery(think thats how its spelled) is a God..to Others its a cheat
The thing is never take another persons word on how good a ship is and always have a varied fleet.

i personally could solo a titan in the starting disco If i could find a blind spot and stay in it. but novas and busters missile me to death
.To make a Long Rant Short (shorter than needed) Each to his own ship and style.

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