Initial encounter between Khaak swarms and oos assets
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Initial encounter between Khaak swarms and oos assets
If you have watched one of your OOS ship approached a khaak swarm (before it breaks into multiple pieces) in combat, you might have noticed that occasionally, as soon as they meet each other the entire swarm will be defeated. This seems to only happen in OOS, the swarm can be the ones with 1 M3 and 6 M5's all the way up the huge fat one with 19 (I think) M5's.
As you know, there is no collison in OOS so the only conclusion I can draw is that there is a chance when an OOS defender meets the Khaak that it will be able to obtain some sort of "critical hit", thereby killing the entire stack before they break out. Needless to say, this is a VERY good thing because : 1. You are not even informed of the encounter so you don't get distracted. 2. You don't get an endless stream of Betty warnings as your OOS ship starts killing the critters.
After watching this behavior over the months I've come to think that the chance of this "critical hit" (don't know what else to call it) seems to be related to type of ship that first intercepts the swarm. I have never seen a M3 or lower get lucky like this. A Nemesis will occasionally wipe out a "pregnant" Khaak M3 before it breaks into pieces. The Osprey *seems* to be slightly more successful than a Nemi. While capital ships do that with a fair regularity.
Since I don't know the guts of OOS combat, I can only guess that perhaps the ship's class has something to do with how likely it is for a one-shot kill. Another possibility is the number or types of guns that the OOS defender has. Since this is obviously a very desirable result, finding out how to maximize the chance for this "critical hit" will serve to make things run a lot smoother over the course of a game. Furthermore, if it turns out to be the total laser value that is the determining factor, then a ship armed with an otherwise very purpose-specific weapons like IonD would make an ideal OOS weapon.
All this assumes that it is not just my imagination.
As you know, there is no collison in OOS so the only conclusion I can draw is that there is a chance when an OOS defender meets the Khaak that it will be able to obtain some sort of "critical hit", thereby killing the entire stack before they break out. Needless to say, this is a VERY good thing because : 1. You are not even informed of the encounter so you don't get distracted. 2. You don't get an endless stream of Betty warnings as your OOS ship starts killing the critters.
After watching this behavior over the months I've come to think that the chance of this "critical hit" (don't know what else to call it) seems to be related to type of ship that first intercepts the swarm. I have never seen a M3 or lower get lucky like this. A Nemesis will occasionally wipe out a "pregnant" Khaak M3 before it breaks into pieces. The Osprey *seems* to be slightly more successful than a Nemi. While capital ships do that with a fair regularity.
Since I don't know the guts of OOS combat, I can only guess that perhaps the ship's class has something to do with how likely it is for a one-shot kill. Another possibility is the number or types of guns that the OOS defender has. Since this is obviously a very desirable result, finding out how to maximize the chance for this "critical hit" will serve to make things run a lot smoother over the course of a game. Furthermore, if it turns out to be the total laser value that is the determining factor, then a ship armed with an otherwise very purpose-specific weapons like IonD would make an ideal OOS weapon.
All this assumes that it is not just my imagination.
I would surmise that a cluster splits into individual ships when the cluster is damaged; as all guns on a ship in OOS will fire simultaneously, if enough of the first salvo hits the cluster will go directly from intact to destroyed (do not pass go*, do not collect 200 pounds)
hence the insta-kill with higher-end ships. If this were true, I'd expect the centaur to do better than the nemesis, and the osprey to do better than both; of course, the slower the ship, the harder it is to intercept the intact cluster
*or "damaged", really
hence the insta-kill with higher-end ships. If this were true, I'd expect the centaur to do better than the nemesis, and the osprey to do better than both; of course, the slower the ship, the harder it is to intercept the intact cluster
*or "damaged", really
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remember the intact cluster has NO weapons, so will get toasted if hit before it breaks, plus it only has M3 sheilding (75MW).
want the FACTS about X2/X3?
Usenko wrote:Don't get me wrong, I think animals have their place in the scheme of things. It's just that in the case of sheep, cattle and pigs, their place happens to be in neat pieces under the griller.
I think simonnance is right there. An unseparated Khaak cluster is 75000/0 as far as shields/weapons are concerned, and given the random factors involved in OOS combat (I've sure we've all seen a ship's shields do nothing in OOS combat for several seconds, then abruptly drop to half their normal value!) it's possible that a ship with enough firepower could take down the unseparated cluster. Theoretically this could happen IN sector as well, but there's no ship or missile which can do enough damage to the cluster to kill it before it splits.
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The Khaak clusters seem to be classed as ships unto themselves... so it's possible that if the player OOS ship gets the first shot in before the cluster sees it as a threat, and separates (or the M3 lanches its M5 drones if you like), the 'numbers' are in the playerships favour.
I'm sure we've all snuck up behind a cluster, fired of a shot and then quickly targeted and despatched all ships before there become mobille.
Cheers,
Eric
I'm sure we've all snuck up behind a cluster, fired of a shot and then quickly targeted and despatched all ships before there become mobille.
Cheers,
Eric
I've wiped several clusters IN SECTOR, with a Ray, while driving. Also got quite a few of the smaller clusters, especially the 1+5's, with my Centaur. the trick is to start firing as soon as you are in range (from side/behind) or just before if a frontal attack. The cluster may break apart, but they are "stunned" for a little while before they start moving. As you start firing, start rotating your ship around the central axis, that will give you a bit of spread, and you have a better chance of picking everything off before they even start moving.
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Are these OOS defenders armed with PSGs by any chance? I notice that the ships named are the Nemesis, Osprey and Odysseus....
Someone will reply, so what, OOS combat doesn't take account of such factors... to which I reply, really? How fo you know?
I maintain there is slightly more to OOS combat than people commonly give it credit for...
Jasp
Someone will reply, so what, OOS combat doesn't take account of such factors... to which I reply, really? How fo you know?
I maintain there is slightly more to OOS combat than people commonly give it credit for...
Jasp
Arms, my only ornament; my only rest, the fight. ~ Don Quixote, Cervantes
I have seen this too. I use ASEWS and have a Centaur which i send in if i am too busy to personally wipe out the buggers.
Usually i get the '1 Khaak detected....' message, send in the Centaur then get the '6/14/19 etc Khaak detected...' message then Betty going on about my ship being attacked. I have noticed a few times not getting the 14 Khaak message or any Ship Under Attack messages, checking the sector to find the Khaak have disappeared.
Seems the 'critical hit' theory must be right, although one time i had a Khaak attack which was a bit more of a mystery.
The same happened as usual with the cluster disappearing, about 5 mins later i got a '14 Khaak detected...' message in the same sector as if a broken cluster had suddenly appeared. They were right in the middle of the sector and caused my transports a bit of grief. For a while i thought the cluster might be disappearing off the edge of my sat range, then boosting back in but that doesnt make alot of sense 'cause OOS all ships can see each other (?), plus there would have to have been another ship off range to break the cluster.
Probably just a fluke appearance of a second cluster in the middle of the sector which got broken before ASEWS notcied it ?
Usually i get the '1 Khaak detected....' message, send in the Centaur then get the '6/14/19 etc Khaak detected...' message then Betty going on about my ship being attacked. I have noticed a few times not getting the 14 Khaak message or any Ship Under Attack messages, checking the sector to find the Khaak have disappeared.
Seems the 'critical hit' theory must be right, although one time i had a Khaak attack which was a bit more of a mystery.
The same happened as usual with the cluster disappearing, about 5 mins later i got a '14 Khaak detected...' message in the same sector as if a broken cluster had suddenly appeared. They were right in the middle of the sector and caused my transports a bit of grief. For a while i thought the cluster might be disappearing off the edge of my sat range, then boosting back in but that doesnt make alot of sense 'cause OOS all ships can see each other (?), plus there would have to have been another ship off range to break the cluster.
Probably just a fluke appearance of a second cluster in the middle of the sector which got broken before ASEWS notcied it ?
I killed a Khaak cluster with the first salvo from a centaur with G/BHEPT. Happened months ago and hasn't happened again since, not even with my titan or ody. In my player stats, it shows Khaak cluster 1.pjknibbs wrote:I think simonnance is right there. An unseparated Khaak cluster is 75000/0 as far as shields/weapons are concerned, and given the random factors involved in OOS combat (I've sure we've all seen a ship's shields do nothing in OOS combat for several seconds, then abruptly drop to half their normal value!) it's possible that a ship with enough firepower could take down the unseparated cluster. Theoretically this could happen IN sector as well, but there's no ship or missile which can do enough damage to the cluster to kill it before it splits.
Could be there's randomness in the time between first shot hitting and the cluster separating. If so, it must be measured in milliseconds so it's not perceptible as seems to me that the clusters always break up immediately after the first hit. A slight delay might enable cap ship weapons to destroy 75MW shields before the cluster separates.
Just speculation on my part. Wonder if we could get a definitive answer.
Just watch it when it happens, Jasp. If you have PSGs on a ship, and you watch what happens OOS, you will see that the ship is reduced to fighting one target at a time--no "spread" from the PSG bursts at all! I think this makes it pretty clear that SOMETHING is majorly different OOS when using PSGs...Jasperodus wrote: Someone will reply, so what, OOS combat doesn't take account of such factors... to which I reply, really? How fo you know?
I maintain there is slightly more to OOS combat than people commonly give it credit for...
Jasp
Last night I encountered an unbroken cluster in my Elephant. I decided I would run it down. As soon as I hit it, the whole thing exploded, no "de-clustering" at all, and I was paid the bounty for an M3.
So yeah, if you can do enough damage to drop it's shields AND smash it's hull before it breaks apart, it dies like one single ship.
So yeah, if you can do enough damage to drop it's shields AND smash it's hull before it breaks apart, it dies like one single ship.
- Sam L.R. Griffiths
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My understanding is that in OOS only the laser power matters so fitting a ship with IonDs in lieu of B-HEPTs reaps massive rewards in OOS. A bayamon with 4 IonDs would have a laser value of 80000 (I think .. might be 40000), more than enough to kill a khaak M3 in 1 or 2 shots while you are OOS.
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)
"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55
"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb
"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55
"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb
"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
Really good point. Going to go and try that now! Would that mean that say 4+ Bayamons kitted out like that would wipe out a sector?Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:My understanding is that in OOS only the laser power matters so fitting a ship with IonDs in lieu of B-HEPTs reaps massive rewards in OOS. A bayamon with 4 IonDs would have a laser value of 80000 (I think .. might be 40000), more than enough to kill a khaak M3 in 1 or 2 shots while you are OOS.
"Split, What Split!"
Ion D laser value is 8000 (same as a GHEPT), so a Bayamon with 4 IDs would have a laser value of 32000. Let's look at those numbers:Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:My understanding is that in OOS only the laser power matters so fitting a ship with IonDs in lieu of B-HEPTs reaps massive rewards in OOS. A bayamon with 4 IonDs would have a laser value of 80000 (I think .. might be 40000), more than enough to kill a khaak M3 in 1 or 2 shots while you are OOS.
Khaak M3: Shield 75000, laser 12000.
Bayamon: Shield 10000, laser 32000.
So, OOS the Bayamon has a little less than three times the firepower of the M3--unfortunately, it has so little shielding that its chances of surviving long enough to deliver the killing blow are nil. Given that four IDs will cost you around a million credits, using a Bayamon OOS would be a very expensive mistake!