Kyon Riddle?

[apogee]

I decided to fit an A-Kyon to a KM3, so that once i have drained the targets shields to 0 with its 3 B-Kyons i can chip away at the hull without doing too much instant damage.

Anyway.... I noticed something interesting about the power consumption of these weapons.

All three B-Kyons get the "Energy Low" warning after about 15 seconds of continual firing. The single A-Kyon strips power to 0 after just 5 seconds!!!!

So this suggests that a single a-kyon requires more energy to project a weaker beam over a shorter distance than 3 b-kyons.

Funnily enough an a-kyon in a KM5 also drains the power in 5 secs.

Looks like some dodgy maths to me!!

[xalien]

Each weapon has it's own energy pool and regeneration rate which isn't affected by any outside factors, like ships power generator (at least not much).

[Jha'dur]

Each weapon has it's own energy pool and regeneration rate which isn't affected by any outside factors, like ships power generator (at least not much).

Indeed. If there is an effect, it's so small that it isn't detectable by rigorous testing (which I have done), and thus makes no difference.

But you'll find these differences in "reload"\rate fo fire etc between many of the weapon-types.

[apogee]

That seems to make sense! I though it was a bit strange.

[Skeletal]

Jha'dur wrote:

Indeed. If there is an effect, it's so small that it isn't detectable by rigorous testing (which I have done), and thus makes no difference

Have you tried GPSGs in a Nemesis vs an Oddy?

I would say that they don't last long in the Nemmy, but are fine in the Oddy. They do slow down a bit, but I would have said nothing like in the Nemmy.

I've never counted/timed them though; it's just the impression I get.

Skeletal

[Jha'dur]

Jha'dur wrote:

Indeed. If there is an effect, it's so small that it isn't detectable by rigorous testing (which I have done), and thus makes no difference

Have you tried GPSGs in a Nemesis vs an Oddy?

I would say that they don't last long in the Nemmy, but are fine in the Oddy. They do slow down a bit, but I would have said nothing like in the Nemmy.

I've never counted/timed them though; it's just the impression I get.

Skeletal

Haven't tried. But remeber, in the Ody you have 9 GPSG's, and some Alpha and Beta as well. On the Nemesis you have 1 GPSG (and 2 Beta's). So I'd think it's easier to think there's a difference.

But I have tested various other weapons on various ships, look at the links below if curious.

http://www.egosoft.com/x2/forum/viewtop ... tor#566043

http://www.egosoft.com/x2/forum/viewtop ... tor#581372

Interestingly, Brianetta started arguing that I was wrong in the last link, yet when I retested and confirmed my initial find, I never heard from her again. Which I took as slinking away because proven wrong

[Skeletal]

Hmm...

I read your links...interesting. I think (!) I agree with similar ships, like the ones in your thread; A Mamba would be the same as a Nova etc, but, as I said, I do get the impression of there being a difference with the bigger stuff.

BUT, I also agree that with several turrets firing together, I could easily mistake a "gap" in the front turret firing, being filled by, say, the left turret.

I'll have to make sure only one turret fires and get the old stopwatch out myself!

I'm working ATM, and am really bored with the stuff I'm doing (bureaucracy; also explains why I keep dipping into this site ) so would much rather do that test!

Skeletal

[Jha'dur]

Hmm...

I read your links...interesting. I think (!) I agree with similar ships, like the ones in your thread; A Mamba would be the same as a Nova etc, but, as I said, I do get the impression of there being a difference with the bigger stuff.

But then it'd be a difference based on ship-type, not powergenerator.

It is also worth noting that in the gamefiles's TLasers-file, each weapon is listed with it's own amount of energy and recharge-rate, whilst the TBullets file has the amount of energy used per shot. A pretty decisive argument, I'd say

[Skeletal]

Ah!

I'd not picked up on that. You think different ship types may have an influence?

That's a bit silly?? Like, there is no difference between power generation of 1000MW to 100MW, but this hull is bigger than that one...so the same weapon will recharge quicker!!

Another idiosyncrasy perhaps?!

Skeletal

[Jha'dur]

Ah!

I'd not picked up on that. You think different ship types may have an influence?

No, I dont think that. I just said that powergenerator-size most certainly have no influence. But I haven't tested if capships follow different rules, so I can't say for sure. But I doubt it. But did you read this:

It is also worth noting that in the gamefiles's TLasers-file, each weapon is listed with it's own amount of energy and recharge-rate, whilst the TBullets file has the amount of energy used per shot. A pretty decisive argument, I'd say

[Skeletal]

Yes, but only half understood it! I think you (the files) are saying that all lasers' parameters are defined only by the laser object; i.e. they are not influenced by anything else (hence your argument that generator size CANNOT have an influence).

I'm struggling with the "bullet". I guess that's for the mass driver...which I have never used (never fancied paying for my weapons' fire...I don't use missiles either!!). I assume each bullet just deducts a fixed amount of hull integrity.

I suppose the only unknown with lasers may be that the recharge rate on the screen could be:

weapon recharge rate X factor depending on ship type (or generator size).

Still, the only way is to conduct an experiment...at this rate I'll just have to stop my boring work!!!

Skeletal

[Jha'dur]

Oh, sorry. Those files are "the rules of the game", so to say. By changing them (and incorporate the new files as a mod) you can change the game. "Bullets" in this sense means everything that comes out of a weapon, be it massdriver, hept or kyon.

Of course, it could be as you said that those numbers are modified by some other numbers. But as I've said, I have not found any difference from testing this.

[Scarecrow]

Brianetta is a "he"

[Jha'dur]

Gosh, really?

[Fachtna]

i think a single b drains as much as 3 b's

i removed 2 to try capping some m5's when low on readies, and get the energy low message just as quickly as with three...

[Jha'dur]

i think a single b drains as much as 3 b's

That is correct. As has been said numerous times, each weapon has it's own supply of energy. Just try putting an APSG and a BPSG in each turret, and fire away. Notice that the BPSG runs of ouf power long before the APSG, and the "energy low"-message comes long after te BPSG has run out because the APSG has power left. Makes it a bit unituitive, but there you go.

[Skeletal]

Well well!

The answer is indeed that GPSGs (and indeed BPSGs) are exactly the same on an Oddy as a Nemesis; so the “more” firing effect must be an illusion due to the multiple turrets.

I did some tests timing how long it took to bring down the shields of a Xenon station to zero using: the Nemmy; the Oddy with me firing; and the Oddy with the turret firing automatically. Also, I tried different weapon load outs to see if my favourite of 2 GPSGs+1 GPPC is indeed better than 3 GPSGs.

I sometimes noticed a big spread of results, but this was mostly due to me being a slightly different distances from the station (and in an M2, one turret may be at say 3.7km, and another at 4km away; small changes in distance can have a big effect on killing time when you reach the limit in range of the weapons: about 3.5 to 4 km). To improve this test, better control of distance would be required; I did not take care of distance for some of these results, I just made sure the ship was closer than 4 km, but I moved around a bit. I mostly tried a couple of times...another improvement would be to do 10 experiments for each test...can't be bothered though!

The results to bring the shields to zero are:

Oddy firing remotely with 1 GPSG: 17s and 29.5s
Oddy with me in front turret 1 GPSG: 17.8s and 24.3s
Oddy with me in front turret 1 GPSG and 1 GPPC: 20.5s
Oddy with me in front turret 1 BPSG: 1min 10s

Nemmy with 1 GPSG: 24.7s

Thus, no matter how you do it, 1 GPSG will take about 20s.

Distance effect using 1BPSG in the Nemmy:

4km: 2min 10s
3.5km: 34.1s
3km: 36.2s
1km: 29s
500m: 26s

Note the huge difference around 4km.

The results to destroy (this time trying to stay around 3km) the station are:

3 GPSGs: 1min 18s and 1min 23s
2 GPSGs and 1 GPPC: 1min 10s and 49.8s

I have always thought that the much better hull killing ability of a GPPC will beat the faster shield reduction of GPSGs, so the 2-1 load out does look to be a bit better (but there's not much in it). If it was easy to swap weapons mid firing, you could rapidly bring the shields down with the PSGs then switch to PPCs.

So, Jha'dur I now totally agree with you...but I'm a bit suprised!

Skeletal

[Nanook]

So does this mean the power generator on the ship only affects shields, or does it even do that? If not, then the power generator seems useless.

[xenon_pimp]

It appears the power generator is a useless statistic. I'm fairly certain it doesn't affect shields, surely doesn't affect propulsion. Shields seem to recharge at a constant percentage of your total full shield strength. Wait, I know, it affects how big an onboard stereo system you can install.

[Jha'dur]

So does this mean the power generator on the ship only affects shields, or does it even do that? If not, then the power generator seems useless.

Useless it is. I guess they had ideas for it, but decided to skip it.