Space Fly tracker feedback wanted

[Sherool]

Hi, I've got a "pre alpha" script I've made that will return an array of (hopefully) all the Space Flies in the players current sector (Space Flies can't be accessed OOS (they might not even exist OOS) because you have to find them by SectorObject), and then makes the running ship follow a Space Fly around (currently just the first fly (element 0 in the array) found).

The plan is to give it a range (the script will return all the flies regardles, but I then plan to check theyr distance to the ship before starting the tracking part) and make the ship follow the nearest fly based on it's distance to the ship rather than just the first object found.

Ok so on to the feedback part (I'll post a alpha version of the script once I've got the range code in):

I'm planning to submit the script for signing and as such I want it to be balanced. Any ideas for what a good range for this "device" would be? I was thinking 10km to start with.

Eventualy I'm planning to make it available as a "Space Fly tracker" upgrade (I'm pretty new at this, but I've seen some good toturials so it should be doable). Any feedback on a proper price tag for this item would be apreciated. Space Flies are valuable so it's important to balance it with a high price and/or low operating range...

I'm also pondering availability and backstorry/description. The obvious thing would be to make it a Split / Pirate thing, but if they had such devices readily available it would be hard to explain why there are still Space Flies left in the universe I was thinking maybe making it a Boron device (intended to be used for monitoring and observing Space Fly oppulations in theyr reservations and such), and only available in one or two of the "secret" sectors (are there any Boron research stations out there? I forget). Another idea was to make it a Goner thing (they are good at high tech stuff (since Space Flies don't show up on the gravidar I figure tracking them require advanced tech), and would probably apreciate the peacefull experience of taking part of a space fly swarm). Any thoughts on this?

[Edit:] Ops, forgot one thing. One final balancing factor I thought about was to make an AL plugin to add AI Space Fly hunters (mostly split and pirate ships). Space Fly hunting would become a bit more hazardous if a rival turned up Ion Disruptors blasing while you where in the middle of a swarm Pluss you would no longer be guaranteed to have all the "wild" spaceflies for yourself, thus making them rarer.


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[Edit:] Download link:
http://adom.brinkster.net/x2/SpaceflyTracker.zip
Include: German readme
Complete French translation.

[Logaan]

Wow, nice idea

Gets my vote to sign it

Have you thought about possibly it requiring an Advanced Navigation Satellite in the sector instead?

And the software interprets the signals from the sattelite

That way the gains of being able to find the Spaceflies are balanced by the cost of the software and the possibilities of loosing the Sat every so often.

I would pay 200k + for something like this

[temmage]

I think, with the proper balance, it would be a great addition. Spacefly hunting is usually overlooked as a early-game means of making money simply because it's so difficult. The only time i notice space flies is when I'm using IonD on other ships.

[TycHouse]

interested that you have posted this as i've just spent about three days trying to do it !

Trouble is i need a way to find the lil buggers in any sector not just the player sector, and as you have already found you have to use sector objects which won't work OOS. Still i'd be interested to see it working.

I developed the idea of migrating a ship from asteroid to asteroid randomly and firing an Ion D at the roid to see if any spaceflies got stunned, this works a treat except you cannot identify the fly as an object therefore you cannot collect it

TycHouse

[Burianek]

Trouble is i need a way to find the lil buggers in any sector not just the player sector, and as you have already found you have to use sector objects which won't work OOS. Still i'd be interested to see it working.

I'm only 90% sure (not 100%), but I don't believe spaceflies exist out of the current players sector. They are more of a visual effect for the sake of the player if you know what I mean, and less of an independent entity that has it's own scripts running and travels around the universe (like the ufo for example).

[LV]

just create some oos


$fly=70

create ship = $fly

[Sherool]

Trouble is i need a way to find the lil buggers in any sector not just the player sector, and as you have already found you have to use sector objects which won't work OOS. Still i'd be interested to see it working.

I'm only 90% sure (not 100%), but I don't believe spaceflies exist out of the current players sector. They are more of a visual effect for the sake of the player if you know what I mean, and less of an independent entity that has it's own scripts running and travels around the universe (like the ufo for example).

Well Space Flies are independent entity's that run theyr own scripts (!ship.cmd.idle.spacefly for example), but only as long as the player is in the sector.


Anyway here are my research findings so far:

• Spaceflies do not exist naturaly OOS (you can probably spawn some with a scrpt if you realy want to). All pointers to Space Flies you have become invalid (Unknown object) once you leave the sector you "found" them in.
• "Stunned" Space Flies (hit by Ion Disruptor fire) will return [TRUE] (1) to the <object> -> is disabled call (the MSCI Handbook might need an update on that part), this might be usefull for future Space Fly capturing scrpts.
• Space Flies with theyr disabled flag set to [TRUE] (1) from a script using the <object> -> set ship disabled to [TRUE]|[FALSE] call will become visible on the gravidar (not the sector map though). However they will not stop moving, that part seems to be handled by the game engine on a lower level. You can "order" a Space Fly to do nothing for a short period wich will have the same effect though.

Still don't have anything ready for a beta release, but if anyone wants to play around with Space Flies here is my find flies script:

Code: Select all

001   * The players ship is the last SectorObject to be created in a sector upon
002   * entering it. Since Space Flys doe not appear to spawn while the player is in the
003   * sector I use this as the starting point. Luckily Space Flys seem to always be 
004   * second last.
005   * Oh, and spaceflies seem to only exist as SectorObjects. In other words they only
006   * exist while the player is present in a sector. So no OOS Space Fly hunting...
007   $sectorID = [PLAYERSHIP] -> get SectorObject ID
008   
009   $flies =  array alloc: size=0
010   
011   while [TRUE]
012    dec $sectorID = 
013    $object =  get object from SectorObject $sectorID
014    $class = $object -> get object class
015    
016   * Break out of the loop if you encounter an existng object that is NOT a Space Fly
017    if $object != null AND $class != Space Fly
018     break
019    end
020    
021    if $object -> exists
022     append $object to array $flies
023    end
024    
025   * Just to avoid locking up the game
026 @  = wait 1 ms
027   end
028   return $flies

If anyone know a more effective way to do this I wouldn't mind a hint

[Burianek]

That's interesting. Thanks for the research.
You do realize that we're going to have to start calling you 'Lord of the Flies' however?

[Legion400]

Funny thing is that i never stop seeing the lil buggers. Shame i havent got my SF industry up yet.


But this script sounds good id also pay 200k+ for it.

[TycHouse]

Well for the purposes of what i am doing, i've had to cheat.

I have a working script that hops from rock to rock and attempts to stun fly's. On a random basis it creates a fly (or up to 5) then collects them until a predefined number have been collected then returns the ship to the playership (to show off) so i can check the details.

If anyone is interested in trying it please PM me and i'll let you have a copy. It'll run on any ship but the ship must have an Ion D and a Spacefly Collector fitted. Oh, and i don't have a menu command set up, so you have to issue the order via the SE (because it's not intended to be a player script, it's for NPC ships).

TycHouse

[Boris]

Hi, I just wanted to add my 2c worth but I don't know if it is doable
1st. I like your idea
2nd. just some suggestions:
a. Maybe force the player to stop his ship. (read description), before being able to use the sensor
b. Start with a 5km range. Then add upgrades, 1st upgrade, make it to 7.5km, and 2nd upgrade to make it 10km.
To get the upgrades, the previous must already be installed. Also the upgrades will take more space with each installation. maybe best suited to a ts with an auto-pilot script, sector trader maybe? Or only be available for player piloted ship?

Loosely based on what you were thinking about what races make &/ or use it.

Description: Space Fly Tracker.

The Space Fly tracker has an interesting history. Initially devised by the Split, it was made based upon a variation of the doppler effect.
Initially it had a usable limit of 2km in this configuration. The Pirates that obtained the secrets to the blueprints by unknown means, have put it to good use, and are now occasionally supplying the Split with flies, or stock their bases.

The peaceful Borons on the other hand, by nature, totally by accident stumbled upon the flies song.
Initially they didn't know what to make of it, except that it reminded them of their own roots.
They had a deep space research centre with huge accoustic array's, a left over from their evolution in water.
They were able to listen in, and hence pin-point the approximate location of the source.
To their great surprise, they found the space flies flying along happily in space.

The Space Fly Tracker, now in production by the Goners, has combined both technologies and passes the priest's high standard of quality control.
This initial version has a working distance of 5km. A minor set-back is, is that the ship has to be motionless so its engines do not interfere with the internal antenna array.
Due to the size of it, is is only available for ships that can carry L size. Some M3 class ships and above are the most suitable home for this.

You can add or subtract to the description etc feel free to do so, if you don't like anything

[Sherool]

Hi, I just wanted to add my 2c worth but I don't know if it is doable
1st. I like your idea
2nd. just some suggestions:
a. Maybe force the player to stop his ship. (read description), before being able to use the sensor

Is it even possible to check if a ship is moving or not? I could make the ship just sit there for a few seconds while it's "scanning" though...

b. Start with a 5km range. Then add upgrades, 1st upgrade, make it to 7.5km, and 2nd upgrade to make it 10km.
To get the upgrades, the previous must already be installed. Also the upgrades will take more space with each installation. maybe best suited to a ts with an auto-pilot script, sector trader maybe? Or only be available for player piloted ship?

Some nice ideas however I'm already running into limitations. I was barely eable to find a fairly reasonable priced item slot that was not used by any (known) ship extention already. Also boardcomp items don't have size and as I understand adding totaly new items would require messing around with the CAT files and basicaly make this thing a mod. Seeing as I wanted to try to get this released as a signed script I dunno how smart it would be to modify a lot of game flies to make it work... Maybe somewhere down the line, I'm still kinda new to this...

Loosely based on what you were thinking about what races make &/ or use it.

Description: Space Fly Tracker.

The Space Fly tracker has an interesting history. Initially devised by the Split, it was made based upon a variation of the doppler effect.
Initially it had a usable limit of 2km in this configuration. The Pirates that obtained the secrets to the blueprints by unknown means, have put it to good use, and are now occasionally supplying the Split with flies, or stock their bases.

The peaceful Borons on the other hand, by nature, totally by accident stumbled upon the flies song.
Initially they didn't know what to make of it, except that it reminded them of their own roots.
They had a deep space research centre with huge accoustic array's, a left over from their evolution in water.
They were able to listen in, and hence pin-point the approximate location of the source.
To their great surprise, they found the space flies flying along happily in space.

The Space Fly Tracker, now in production by the Goners, has combined both technologies and passes the priest's high standard of quality control.
This initial version has a working distance of 5km. A minor set-back is, is that the ship has to be motionless so its engines do not interfere with the internal antenna array.
Due to the size of it, is is only available for ships that can carry L size. Some M3 class ships and above are the most suitable home for this.

You can add or subtract to the description etc feel free to do so, if you don't like anything

Not bad. The current test version is basicaly described as a "secret" tool used by the Boron to map Spacefly populations...

I wanted to make it become available only if the player had a good standing with the Boron unfortunately there seem to be no way to check relations to a race from a script at the moment. The second best thing I could think of was to make it requie a Boron law enforcement lisence. Not much of a hard-to-achieve-requirement, but it seemed better than nothing, and I did't feel right about having the Boron sell it to just anyone (basicaly once the player buy the apropriate law enforcement lisence the spacefly tracker is added to the list of wares at Equipment docks (within a second)). I also only added it in the "secret" sector of Depths of Silence (hmm, just got and idea if I place it with the Gooners insdead I could check the state of the Plot instead of race relation and make it available at the temple once a the player have reached a scertain checkpoint in the plot. Would clash a bit with "plotles" mods though)...

Am I beeing overly restrictive with the availability though? The current price is ~150K, the problem is with the (IMHO) silly way new command extentions are available. Price is as you probably know determined by what "free" slot is used, and most of the slots are used or have a "wrong" price. The next step up would be 500K but it's already taken by the Trade extention MkIII and the next step after that would put the price in the millions, wich frankly it's not worth. Only way to get full controll over price would be to make it a mod, but AFAIK that would make it unsignable (wouldn't it?)

Bah, I should proabably just put it all togeter in a working beta version already and let you guys have a look at it. It would probably be easier to give feedback on someting you can asualy see working in the game rather than some bastract ideas

[Nanook]

Great idea. I love spacefly capturing. They always seem to show up during a battle, so once the battle's over, I collect as many as I can. The tracker idea is a great way to make spacefly hunting a valid credit earner early in the game, where it's most useful. However, I don't like this idea:

Due to the size of it, is is only available for ships that can carry L size. Some M3 class ships and above are the most suitable home for this.

Players don't often have expensive M3's and above early on, and it would negate the use of Bayamons, Mako's and Iguana's, which, in my opinion, would be a bad thing. IF you can afford the expense of an Ion Disruptor, you should be able to use the tracker.

[Sherool]

Ok have a working version now, you can get it here:

http://adom.brinkster.net/x2/SpaceflyTracker.zip

Installation should be pretty straight forward if you have installed unsigned scripts before, read the readme for details.

Hope there are no conflics with other scripts out there, I mostly just chedked the Xai Wiki to find a free slot for stuff.

Would apreciate feedback, suggestions and bug reports. If anyone feel like translating the language files (not a lot of text) please PM me the result and I'll include it in the release.

[mega|Doc]

nice work, is a German xml available?

[Sherool]

The download include a German (490600.xml) language file among several others. All the actual text is currently in English thoug, as my German skills are fairly limited; and experience tells me tools like Babelfish is not that good at getting the grammar (or even choice of words) right...

[mega|Doc]

I will look the whole one and then if I have time, translate into German

EDIT: I have translated the readme, look here http://www.egosoft.com/x2/forum/viewtopic.php?t=77627

[Sherool]

Thanks. I've added your German readme as well as a French readme I got to the download.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

Hi there,

Although I'm a conservationist at heart and don't capture spaceflies, it's nice idea. After all, there has to be a better way of finding them that waiting for the splat on the windscreen

I have a request for any background details or ware descriptions-

-Please avoid all reference to sound/acoustic detection of space flies!
-Our ships may manoeuvre like they're swimming through a Boron sea but they're in a vacuum, which has an insufficient particle density to carry sound...

Keep up the good work!
Sparky

[Sherool]

So... Anyone tried it yet. Does it need more work, or should I just submit it as-is for signing.

I'm thinking about adding an AL component too (and just leave it off as default) that will add some AI controlled Spacefly hunter to the universe. They won't use the actual device, just the detection script and some random chance to "notice" the flies or someting like that. Not quite sure how to handle theyr OOS behaviour though. I'd also like them to react with hostility toward "competition", without being universaly hostile (might be tricky). Then there is the question on just how the Split capture Spaceflies in the first place, I mean almost none of theyr ships can even mount Ion Disruptors and you can't seem to "capture" active flies (well I probably have to "fake it" anyway)...