Ammunition factories now make money lol

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Apocholypse
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Ammunition factories now make money lol

Post by Apocholypse » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 17:28

Okay, i was observing the universe looking for eco gaps to fill, when i found three EQ's which need ammunition, so i though perfect, so i set up a huge loop about 20 facts long for ammunition, however the facts(amu) do not even make enough money to support them selves and i can't raise the price because the AI don't come and buy (i tryed for many hours).
It sells for average price and buys all resources at average price. But if i start making a mess and switching all of fact prices down, a risk doing the same to them. Any body else got amu's which work?
Last edited by Apocholypse on Sun, 24. Apr 05, 13:03, edited 1 time in total.

Scarecrow
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Post by Scarecrow » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 17:32

Where did you place the factory?

I have one in PE that is hard pressed to keep up with the demand.

Greyhawk1
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Post by Greyhawk1 » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 17:41

Mine is in Circle of Labour. It makes a minimal profit - however its a standalone fab and there is a high-level BPH there so it sells and buys.

Still I would never build another.

Deleted User

Post by Deleted User » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 17:44

Ah, the classic double negative. From your subject - Ammunition Factories - Can't make no money... this of course means that Ammunition Factories can make money.


I ain't done nothing. Always liked that. And "Slow Children Playing" too.

Without trying to be patronising - have you got the trade with other races set to yes on that factory??

Apocholypse
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Post by Apocholypse » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 18:06

Big Bad Orca wrote:Ah, the classic double negative. From your subject - Ammunition Factories - Can't make no money... this of course means that Ammunition Factories can make money.


I ain't done nothing. Always liked that. And "Slow Children Playing" too.

Without trying to be patronising - have you got the trade with other races set to yes on that factory??
oh its selling like anything, allways on 0-16 max, but it just makes no profit, and it can't afford the resources.

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Post by simonnance » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 18:16

Apocholypse wrote:
Big Bad Orca wrote:Ah, the classic double negative. From your subject - Ammunition Factories - Can't make no money... this of course means that Ammunition Factories can make money.


I ain't done nothing. Always liked that. And "Slow Children Playing" too.

Without trying to be patronising - have you got the trade with other races set to yes on that factory??
oh its selling like anything, allways on 0-16 max, but it just makes no profit, and it can't afford the resources.
then you must have the pricing wrong somewhere?

loops by their definition are self-sustaining, both in terms of money, and in terms of goods.

Your loop should look like this:
1 SPP, buy at 1432cr, sell at 11cr
1 Silicon Mine (25 yield), buy at 11cr, sell at 264cr
2 Cattle Ranch, buy at 11cr, sell at 61cr
2 Cahoona Bakery, buy at 11cr and 61cr, sell at 48cr
1 Crystal Fab, buy at 11cr 48cr and 264cr, sell at 1432cr
1 Ore Mine (25 yeild), buy at 11cr, sell at 77cr
1 Ammunition Factory, buy at 11cr 77cr and 48cr, sell at 1468cr

with a profit margin of 59850cr/hr on the Amu fab.

mine in Argon Prime works very well, its not closed looped, but its still very nice thank you very much.
want the FACTS about X2/X3?
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CanadianBrit
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Post by CanadianBrit » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 18:34

I have two ammo facts in argon prime, and whilst I don't go in for loops too often, the surrounding sectors have plaenty of owned supporting mines and facts. And i still manage to sell above average.

Apocholypse
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Post by Apocholypse » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 18:40

simonnance wrote:
Apocholypse wrote:
Big Bad Orca wrote:Ah, the classic double negative. From your subject - Ammunition Factories - Can't make no money... this of course means that Ammunition Factories can make money.


I ain't done nothing. Always liked that. And "Slow Children Playing" too.

Without trying to be patronising - have you got the trade with other races set to yes on that factory??
oh its selling like anything, allways on 0-16 max, but it just makes no profit, and it can't afford the resources.
then you must have the pricing wrong somewhere?

loops by their definition are self-sustaining, both in terms of money, and in terms of goods.

Your loop should look like this:
1 SPP, buy at 1432cr, sell at 11cr
1 Silicon Mine (25 yield), buy at 11cr, sell at 264cr
2 Cattle Ranch, buy at 11cr, sell at 61cr
2 Cahoona Bakery, buy at 11cr and 61cr, sell at 48cr
1 Crystal Fab, buy at 11cr 48cr and 264cr, sell at 1432cr
1 Ore Mine (25 yeild), buy at 11cr, sell at 77cr
1 Ammunition Factory, buy at 11cr 77cr and 48cr, sell at 1468cr

with a profit margin of 59850cr/hr on the Amu fab.

mine in Argon Prime works very well, its not closed looped, but its still very nice thank you very much.
I don't usually like to put the prices low as it means my supports get less profit, so don't see any point and as i got loads of fabs, it's a real chore fiddling around with all my prices, but will give it some thought on this occation, just gonna try soemthing first, thx, (oh and i have 3 amu facts)

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Post by Scarecrow » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 18:44

The way I see it...your missing the point of a closed loop then.

You do this not to make profit on the support factories but to maximize the profit margin on the final product that gets retailed to the npc's.

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Post by andrewas » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 19:03

Apocholypse wrote:
I don't usually like to put the prices low as it means my supports get less profit, so don't see any point and as i got loads of fabs, it's a real chore fiddling around with all my prices, but will give it some thought on this occation, just gonna try soemthing first, thx, (oh and i have 3 amu facts)
The profit of an individual station dosent matter. The important number is how much profit the entire setup makes. If that means an individual station doesn't make any money in its own right, who cares? Its contributing to the profits being made by the stations further up the chain and all is well. Consider your ammo loop as a single, large, ammo factory which does not take any resources.

Apocholypse
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Post by Apocholypse » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 21:47

simonnance wrote:
Apocholypse wrote:
Big Bad Orca wrote:Ah, the classic double negative. From your subject - Ammunition Factories - Can't make no money... this of course means that Ammunition Factories can make money.


I ain't done nothing. Always liked that. And "Slow Children Playing" too.

Without trying to be patronising - have you got the trade with other races set to yes on that factory??
oh its selling like anything, allways on 0-16 max, but it just makes no profit, and it can't afford the resources.
then you must have the pricing wrong somewhere?

loops by their definition are self-sustaining, both in terms of money, and in terms of goods.

Your loop should look like this:
1 SPP, buy at 1432cr, sell at 11cr
1 Silicon Mine (25 yield), buy at 11cr, sell at 264cr
2 Cattle Ranch, buy at 11cr, sell at 61cr
2 Cahoona Bakery, buy at 11cr and 61cr, sell at 48cr
1 Crystal Fab, buy at 11cr 48cr and 264cr, sell at 1432cr
1 Ore Mine (25 yeild), buy at 11cr, sell at 77cr
1 Ammunition Factory, buy at 11cr 77cr and 48cr, sell at 1468cr

with a profit margin of 59850cr/hr on the Amu fab.

mine in Argon Prime works very well, its not closed looped, but its still very nice thank you very much.
I can't sell amu at 1468, the AI won't come to my stations at all, plus i got 3 amu facts. I been fidling with it but it doesn't look like my other support facts, particularly ore, are going to make enough money to support themselves either. I well and truly screwed things up, a spent 40 mill on this loop and it's more than 20 facts long, about 40 ships in it.

Nanook
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Post by Nanook » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 22:08

Apocholypse wrote: I can't sell amu at 1468, the AI won't come to my stations at all, plus i got 3 amu facts. I been fidling with it but it doesn't look like my other support facts, particularly ore, are going to make enough money to support themselves either. I well and truly screwed things up, a spent 40 mill on this loop and it's more than 20 facts long, about 40 ships in it.
First, I think you're missing the point of closed loops. In a closed loop, the only factory that should be making credits is the final product. All the others should be getting their supplies at cost from their suppliers and selling at cost to the next ones in the loop. In fact, if you use the SDS software, no credits need to change hands at all, and all your factories can have a zero balance. So at most, you'd get your ammo factory filled up with product, which you could then have a selling ship take to the local equipment docks and sell at average price.

That said, I think you overdid it a bit with three ammo factories. If you aren't using ammo yourself, then I don't think the EqD's can 'use up' enough ammo to keep your factory loops in full production. Of course, you could always 'eliminate' the competing NPC factories. :fg:

Here's a little trick I sometimes use to sell items that don't have a fast turn around. Dock a ship at an EqD that sells ammo. When you're ready to sell a full load of ammo, have that docked ship buy up the existing stock. Once the EqD launches a freighter to buy more ammo, immediately sell back what the docked ship has on board. The NPC freighter will continue to the nearest ammo factory (hopefully yours) and buy up a full stock. Any excess still at the EqD when it returns is simply lost. This takes a little bit of micromanagement, but it can save a failing industry. :D
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.

Apocholypse
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Post by Apocholypse » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 22:14

Nanook wrote:
Apocholypse wrote: I can't sell amu at 1468, the AI won't come to my stations at all, plus i got 3 amu facts. I been fidling with it but it doesn't look like my other support facts, particularly ore, are going to make enough money to support themselves either. I well and truly screwed things up, a spent 40 mill on this loop and it's more than 20 facts long, about 40 ships in it.
First, I think you're missing the point of closed loops. In a closed loop, the only factory that should be making credits is the final product. All the others should be getting their supplies at cost from their suppliers and selling at cost to the next ones in the loop. In fact, if you use the SDS software, no credits need to change hands at all, and all your factories can have a zero balance. So at most, you'd get your ammo factory filled up with product, which you could then have a selling ship take to the local equipment docks and sell at average price.

That said, I think you overdid it a bit with three ammo factories. If you aren't using ammo yourself, then I don't think the EqD's can 'use up' enough ammo to keep your factory loops in full production. Of course, you could always 'eliminate' the competing NPC factories. :fg:
SDS software whats that? (i am selling to three EQ's, plenty)

Nanook
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Post by Nanook » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 22:19

Apocholypse wrote: SDS software whats that?
Part of the Bonus Plugins. Available at a couple of Paranid EqD's. If you've already installed the bonus pack, then there's a readme in your X2 folder.
(i am selling to three EQ's, plenty)
No, it's not. Equipment docks and trading stations 'use' products at a much lower rate than a standard factory. Thus, a single ammo factory will easily produce way more than a single EqD will 'consume'. It's at least 2 to 1, in my experience.
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.

Apocholypse
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Post by Apocholypse » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 23:19

Nanook wrote:
Apocholypse wrote: SDS software whats that?
Part of the Bonus Plugins. Available at a couple of Paranid EqD's. If you've already installed the bonus pack, then there's a readme in your X2 folder.
(i am selling to three EQ's, plenty)
No, it's not. Equipment docks and trading stations 'use' products at a much lower rate than a standard factory. Thus, a single ammo factory will easily produce way more than a single EqD will 'consume'. It's at least 2 to 1, in my experience.
My God yeah right, and i actually supplying to 4 EQ's, i looked at my ships, they full of ammo, my God i really screwed things up, i got enough ammo for the split as well!! What on earth do I do???

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Post by simonnance » Sat, 16. Apr 05, 23:26

Apocholypse wrote:i got 3 amu facts
pure overkill for the same economic catchment area, you need to divesify if you want to maximise profits, for example i sell 21 different goods, all in a 3 sector radius from Herron's Nebula.
Apocholypse wrote:I been fidling with it but it doesn't look like my other support facts, particularly ore, are going to make enough money to support themselves either.
they dont need to MAKE money, just to sell the goods for as much as it cost them to buy the starting materials, and maintain turnover. Use Sector Planner to find the optimum pricings beforehand. Of use the built in indicators to determine the minimum profitable selling price (in brackets under the selling price in the station info panel).

Apocholypse wrote:I well and truly screwed things up, a spent 40 mill on this loop and it's more than 20 facts long, about 40 ships in it.
learning is always dificult and sometimes painful. Reminds me of my first Wasp missile loop in Omicron Lyre....... made a real pigs ear of it!

Now i have 76 interlinked stations selling 21 different goods to the AI in 11 sectors making 1.8Mil per hour, and i have big plans to expand!

Making mistakes isnt the problem, as long as you face them and learn from them. IMHO you should salvage what you can from your loop, maybe close one Amu fab for your use, keep a second open to the AI, and mothball the third and use the resources it was using to make another good you can sell to the AI for proffitsssss. Then when you get a Trading station you can re-activate the mothballed station, and use SDS to supply the Trading station (preferably a way away) with Amu that it can sell for good money.

That's the long game option certanly, or you could close the third fab, load up a TS with the Amu it makes and periodicaly jump it to another Trading dock that buys it to flog it off.

Also the excess food capacity can be either used in another loop, or just opened tot he AI for even more money, the AI is ALWAYS short of Cahoonas!

There are a number of options, so dont feel you have hit the end of the road.
want the FACTS about X2/X3?
Usenko wrote:Don't get me wrong, I think animals have their place in the scheme of things. It's just that in the case of sheep, cattle and pigs, their place happens to be in neat pieces under the griller.:-)

Apocholypse
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Post by Apocholypse » Sun, 17. Apr 05, 23:39

Arh, i think i fixed things, i just got one not selling, the others can either help the other facts, or i can open them up and fix the argons economy, as they lack power, argnu beef and meatstake cahoona's.

Apocholypse
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Post by Apocholypse » Sun, 24. Apr 05, 12:54

WOW, extended jump range, so cover 4 EQ's, and my amu's have doubled their money??? I don't use seta either.

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RobG
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Post by RobG » Sun, 24. Apr 05, 13:07

Have you thought about useing the 3rd factory as an experiment to find out how long it takes to "kill" a station with mass drivers? :twisted:

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Some Strange Man
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Post by Some Strange Man » Sun, 24. Apr 05, 13:21

Three ammo facts close together? :o

You could supply a fleet of scorpions with enough MD ammo to take down Khaak capships. :o

Thats a possible use: wingmen ammo.

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