PBEs
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PBEs
I am looking to build a factory to produce fighter defence weapons for my future capital ships. I would go with Flack Artillery Arrays, but unfortunently my favored race's (Boron) capital ships cannot equip them. The Borons cannot equip PSGs either, and from my experience the direct fire options (IREs, PACs, and HEPTs) fire projectiles that travel too slowly to work very effectively against fast fighters (if being fired by a turret). I have read several people on here saying that PBEs are not very good, but the thought of having a weapon that avoids AI target leading problems as well as friendly fire problems sounds very appealing to me. Just how bad are PBEs, and what makes them so bad? Does anyone have a positive opinion regarding them?
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Sandalpocalypse
- Posts: 4447
- Joined: Tue, 2. Dec 03, 22:28
Yes, I noticed this too and it makes me quite angry. In fact, if you listen to the in-game audio info about the Flack Artillery Arrays, it tells you that the Borons (being defensively minded) were the ones that developed the FAA technology. So they developed FAAs, but then didn't design their ships to be capable of equiping them? Except, of course, for their TL, which makes lots of sense (sarcasm). I would be quite happy if someone could explain the logic behind that one to me.Sandalpocalypse wrote:From what I've read, they have very short range.
One irony to keep in mind is that the Orca can fit Flaks.
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nuclear_eclipse
- Posts: 1129
- Joined: Thu, 2. Sep 04, 01:54
If you've played th esecond mission in the plot:
I actually think it's a pretty nice weapon indeed. It has a VERY fast refire rate, and with super fast projectiles, it is very accurate, and little energy is wasted as compared to such as the IRE/PAC/HEPT type weapons. As a fighter defense weapon for capital ships, would rate it top-notch, only behind PSG type weapons.
Spoiler
Show
The turret mission where you must destroy the nuwerous waves of pirates uses a PBE as the turreted weapon.
Thanks for the info... that's really what I was hoping to hear. Haven't played any of the plot (waiting till 1.3), so I haven't experienced what you mentioned, but I'll take your word for it.nuclear_eclipse wrote:If you've played th esecond mission in the plot:
I actually think it's a pretty nice weapon indeed. It has a VERY fast refire rate, and with super fast projectiles, it is very accurate, and little energy is wasted as compared to such as the IRE/PAC/HEPT type weapons. As a fighter defense weapon for capital ships, would rate it top-notch, only behind PSG type weapons.SpoilerShowThe turret mission where you must destroy the nuwerous waves of pirates uses a PBE as the turreted weapon.
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simonnance
- Posts: 6788
- Joined: Fri, 12. Mar 04, 23:39
without the downsides of PSGs, and i think they arent as powerfull in X3.nuclear_eclipse wrote:If you've played th esecond mission in the plot:
I actually think it's a pretty nice weapon indeed. It has a VERY fast refire rate, and with super fast projectiles, it is very accurate, and little energy is wasted as compared to such as the IRE/PAC/HEPT type weapons. As a fighter defense weapon for capital ships, would rate it top-notch, only behind PSG type weapons.SpoilerShowThe turret mission where you must destroy the nuwerous waves of pirates uses a PBE as the turreted weapon.
PBEs are also equipable on some fighters no? looks like aperfect M5 killing weapon, almost like the MD, but no ammo needed.
want the FACTS about X2/X3?
Usenko wrote:Don't get me wrong, I think animals have their place in the scheme of things. It's just that in the case of sheep, cattle and pigs, their place happens to be in neat pieces under the griller.
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TerrorTrooper
- Posts: 2266
- Joined: Mon, 26. Jan 04, 13:14
ive got a mammoth...
ive been experimenting by jumping into the same sector filled with pirates using :-
Alpha Pulse Beam Emitters.
Alpha Photon Pulse Cannons.
Beta Particle Accelerator Cannon.
Each time my mammoth was attacked by a Buzzard, A Nova, And 2 Falcons.
My mammoth was armed with 2 weapons in each of its 4 turrets.
First, i tried the A-PBE's :-
What can i say.. They use verry little energy so they can fire pretty much indefinately, and they are quite accurate, However, the range on them is terrible, the pirates were raking my shields well before they got in range of my PBE's, also, the PBEs wernt much more accurate than a PAC or an IRE in the AI Turrents hands.. considdering how weak they are there not really much good. the only advantage i can see in them is missile defence, However, any missile big enough to hurt a TL is going to be slow enough to be shot down by a PAC or IRE anyway.
They inflicted some light to moderate shield damage on 2 of the fighters before my mammoth blew up.
Also.. a noteworthy point, the PBE's are REDICULOUSLY Expensive.
the only place id considder mounting them is in the rear turret of a personal TS.
Useless Weapon.. i will only put them on my cap ships now for show if i got the spare cash to waste, nothing more.
Second, i tried A-PPC's :-
These were a little better.
When the pirates started closing, my PPC's started firing at about 4 Km or so, the range of these weapons is as good as it always was, also, there speed has been upped a little, they raped the Buzzard before it could get within 3km of me, and they severely damages one of the Falcons by the time they closed. I was quite impressed by this.
Now the Downside. They use energy like its going out of fashion.. by the time they had closed the gap, my TL's energy reserves were empty, and the PPC's were now hardly firing a shot due to energy restrictions.
Also, the PPC's dont seem to be verry accurate at close range, they were occasionally hitting the attacking pirates, and there shots were powerfull enough to do some damage, but my poor TL just didnt have the power to properly use them. By the time i died, i had taken 2 of them with me, but i still lost, and when your chewing vacuum, theres no prize for coming second..
Better than the PBE's will keep them, will try with just 1 PPC in each turret to see if this improves on my energy problem later.
last, i tried B-PACS :-
The firing range on these was slightly better than the PBE's as they started firing about the same time as the pirates HEPT's did.
They were averagely accurate, and did enough damage for the pirates to feel a sting.. Also, my energy was going down, but it was creeping slowly, so my TL could fire at least 2 turrets simultaneously for a good 5 minutes or so.
I actually won this battle, barely though, i capped one of the Falcons, that damn Nova was last to go, my turrets finally got him when the energy was just starting to run out, although my TL had taken heavy damage by then.
Overall the Beta PAC's seemed the best defensive choice.
although i will keep the PPC's onboard for their long range, maybey a bit of long range battlefield support when im taking my wingmen into battle.
Extra thoughts :-
i didnt try HEPT's, Although powerfull, i imagine they would suffer the same energy problems as the PPC's, Also, the PAC "bullets" travel faster than the HEPT.
Also, the Alpha PAC bullets travel faster than the Beta PAC, but the Alpha is quite weak and i dont think it will stand up well to any M3's that attack.
About TL's :-
The TL is not the "pocket Battleship" it was in X2, with the pirates carrying some severe firepower these days, they can strip your 5x125MJ Shields in about 60 seconds if your not carefull.
However, the best defence for a TL is Fighters. i have 4 Novas "Homed" on my Mammoth, and as long as your not piloting the mammoth (obviously i was for the experiments) and you are in the same sector as the mamoth, as soon as a pirate weapon hits the TL, it launches all 4 of my Novas, unlike X2, all at once as well, 2 from each side, they immediately begin attacking whoever shot at the TL, seeing this, i cant wait to get my hands on a carrier...
i dont know if the TL will launch them OOS (out of sector) though, as they didnt in X2. But besides, even in X2, in OOS combat, the TL was a beast to be reckoned with..
Hope you find this usefull..
ive been experimenting by jumping into the same sector filled with pirates using :-
Alpha Pulse Beam Emitters.
Alpha Photon Pulse Cannons.
Beta Particle Accelerator Cannon.
Each time my mammoth was attacked by a Buzzard, A Nova, And 2 Falcons.
My mammoth was armed with 2 weapons in each of its 4 turrets.
First, i tried the A-PBE's :-
What can i say.. They use verry little energy so they can fire pretty much indefinately, and they are quite accurate, However, the range on them is terrible, the pirates were raking my shields well before they got in range of my PBE's, also, the PBEs wernt much more accurate than a PAC or an IRE in the AI Turrents hands.. considdering how weak they are there not really much good. the only advantage i can see in them is missile defence, However, any missile big enough to hurt a TL is going to be slow enough to be shot down by a PAC or IRE anyway.
They inflicted some light to moderate shield damage on 2 of the fighters before my mammoth blew up.
Also.. a noteworthy point, the PBE's are REDICULOUSLY Expensive.
the only place id considder mounting them is in the rear turret of a personal TS.
Useless Weapon.. i will only put them on my cap ships now for show if i got the spare cash to waste, nothing more.
Second, i tried A-PPC's :-
These were a little better.
When the pirates started closing, my PPC's started firing at about 4 Km or so, the range of these weapons is as good as it always was, also, there speed has been upped a little, they raped the Buzzard before it could get within 3km of me, and they severely damages one of the Falcons by the time they closed. I was quite impressed by this.
Now the Downside. They use energy like its going out of fashion.. by the time they had closed the gap, my TL's energy reserves were empty, and the PPC's were now hardly firing a shot due to energy restrictions.
Also, the PPC's dont seem to be verry accurate at close range, they were occasionally hitting the attacking pirates, and there shots were powerfull enough to do some damage, but my poor TL just didnt have the power to properly use them. By the time i died, i had taken 2 of them with me, but i still lost, and when your chewing vacuum, theres no prize for coming second..
Better than the PBE's will keep them, will try with just 1 PPC in each turret to see if this improves on my energy problem later.
last, i tried B-PACS :-
The firing range on these was slightly better than the PBE's as they started firing about the same time as the pirates HEPT's did.
They were averagely accurate, and did enough damage for the pirates to feel a sting.. Also, my energy was going down, but it was creeping slowly, so my TL could fire at least 2 turrets simultaneously for a good 5 minutes or so.
I actually won this battle, barely though, i capped one of the Falcons, that damn Nova was last to go, my turrets finally got him when the energy was just starting to run out, although my TL had taken heavy damage by then.
Overall the Beta PAC's seemed the best defensive choice.
although i will keep the PPC's onboard for their long range, maybey a bit of long range battlefield support when im taking my wingmen into battle.
Extra thoughts :-
i didnt try HEPT's, Although powerfull, i imagine they would suffer the same energy problems as the PPC's, Also, the PAC "bullets" travel faster than the HEPT.
Also, the Alpha PAC bullets travel faster than the Beta PAC, but the Alpha is quite weak and i dont think it will stand up well to any M3's that attack.
About TL's :-
The TL is not the "pocket Battleship" it was in X2, with the pirates carrying some severe firepower these days, they can strip your 5x125MJ Shields in about 60 seconds if your not carefull.
However, the best defence for a TL is Fighters. i have 4 Novas "Homed" on my Mammoth, and as long as your not piloting the mammoth (obviously i was for the experiments) and you are in the same sector as the mamoth, as soon as a pirate weapon hits the TL, it launches all 4 of my Novas, unlike X2, all at once as well, 2 from each side, they immediately begin attacking whoever shot at the TL, seeing this, i cant wait to get my hands on a carrier...
i dont know if the TL will launch them OOS (out of sector) though, as they didnt in X2. But besides, even in X2, in OOS combat, the TL was a beast to be reckoned with..
Hope you find this usefull..
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Sam L.R. Griffiths
- Posts: 10522
- Joined: Fri, 12. Mar 04, 19:47
I am currently flying a Mako with 4xA-PBE/2xIonD. I tend to use the IonDs rarely and only when strategicaly necessary. Most of the time I use my 4 A-PBEs and blast the hell out of M5s/M4s and some M3s (with a little help from a few silkworms sometimes 
).
Great weapon for REAL dog-fighting!
).Great weapon for REAL dog-fighting!
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)
"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55
"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb
"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55
"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb
"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
Yes, I have equiped 6 Alpha FAAs on my Orca. They seem to be extremely effective against fighters. I just watched that thing take out an entire minor Xenon invasion single-handedly without taking any significant shield damage. Negatives would be that they seem to have a somewhat short range, most likely fairly worthless against anything with decent shields, can possibly cause friendly fire, relatively slow rate of fire, seem to eat energy like crazy (I would hate to see how fast the Beta variant dominates a generator), and can't be equipped on very many ships (can't even be equipped on the Boron M1s and M2s, who supposedly invented the technology). Despite the negatives, I would definitely use them if I could.hrett wrote:Sounds like the PBEs just need their range increased. Perhaps it will be in the patch.
Any testing on the flak weapons?
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TerrorTrooper
- Posts: 2266
- Joined: Mon, 26. Jan 04, 13:14
hmm
i had no idea the PBE's were mountable on Fighters.
For this there much better suited than cap ship defense..
perhaps the Alpha PBE should be for fighters exclusively and the Beta PBE for caps exclusively with a greater range.
to me it sounds like both the Flak and the PBE just need a range increase, as that is what i found most annoying about them.
i had no idea the PBE's were mountable on Fighters.
For this there much better suited than cap ship defense..
perhaps the Alpha PBE should be for fighters exclusively and the Beta PBE for caps exclusively with a greater range.
to me it sounds like both the Flak and the PBE just need a range increase, as that is what i found most annoying about them.
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Mightysword
- Posts: 4350
- Joined: Wed, 10. Mar 04, 05:11
Well, Terra's experiement proves one thing that people seems forget most of the time: the best choice is a versatile choice.
That why most capital ship has a variety of weapon mount. Even now I'm flying a Nova Vanguard I equiped its main guns with 4 APACs and 4AHEPTs that are grouped into 2. When I have to deal with M3 target, I bring the 4AHEPTs to bear, when I deal with M5 or M4, I switch to 4APACs.
The way I usually mount my Destroyer in X2 is that Front - Back - Top - Left - Right with PPC weapons but I have one slot on each side for a mass driver or IRE for missle defense. The Bottom turrets however are usually mounted with GHEPT for "heavy duty bombarding" since when I get close to a target I tend to hammer them from the top, and HEPT is way better then PPC at close range.
The addition of the Flak and PAE should make thing a little more interesting in X3. I think PAE despite their short range is still usefull as long as it's not the only type of gun you're using. Since the PPC turret turn like a brick at close range, and the PAE is quite lethal and accurate (I remember taking about a bunch of pirate in mission 2 with just a spray )
That why most capital ship has a variety of weapon mount. Even now I'm flying a Nova Vanguard I equiped its main guns with 4 APACs and 4AHEPTs that are grouped into 2. When I have to deal with M3 target, I bring the 4AHEPTs to bear, when I deal with M5 or M4, I switch to 4APACs.
The way I usually mount my Destroyer in X2 is that Front - Back - Top - Left - Right with PPC weapons but I have one slot on each side for a mass driver or IRE for missle defense. The Bottom turrets however are usually mounted with GHEPT for "heavy duty bombarding" since when I get close to a target I tend to hammer them from the top, and HEPT is way better then PPC at close range.
The addition of the Flak and PAE should make thing a little more interesting in X3. I think PAE despite their short range is still usefull as long as it's not the only type of gun you're using. Since the PPC turret turn like a brick at close range, and the PAE is quite lethal and accurate (I remember taking about a bunch of pirate in mission 2 with just a spray )
I tested out a couple of Beta PBEs on a Hydra, and I have mixed feelings about them. Their range is terrible (it can hit things up to about 1.4 km away, but the targeting computer won't acknowledge that you're in range until 1.0 km). Their energy consumption is amazingly low, which I would say is their strongest point. They are extremely rapid fire, and the projectiles are the fastest in the game (other than non-projectile weapons). Furthermore, they seem to strip shields in a heart beat, but then it takes forever to beat through your targets hull. In summary, they are a weapon with good potential uses, but their range and low hull damage limit their applications. I would suggest using them in coordination with other weapons as a means of efficient energy management.
*Pure speculation:* I noticed that the impact of my BPBEs on the hull of my target caused a large flame effect that reminded me of those missiles that cover your screen in fire. I was wondering if PBEs might have a similar effect, somehow hindering the target ships performance while it is under fire. Of course the only way to test this is to actually get shot by PBEs. Has anyone come up against an enemy that uses them?
*Pure speculation:* I noticed that the impact of my BPBEs on the hull of my target caused a large flame effect that reminded me of those missiles that cover your screen in fire. I was wondering if PBEs might have a similar effect, somehow hindering the target ships performance while it is under fire. Of course the only way to test this is to actually get shot by PBEs. Has anyone come up against an enemy that uses them?
Pulse Beam Emitters
has anyone else tried these, and are they any good? I equipped a Xenon L with a alpha pulsed beam emitter, and it seems great vs shields but not so hot vs hulls, is anyone else getting similar results?
Re: Pulse Beam Emitters
Yes, you could check out the thread named PBEs to read about everyone's experiences with them, but I definitely agree with you. Also, they have very short range, and very good energy consumption.[/url]Fleshrend wrote:has anyone else tried these, and are they any good? I equipped a Xenon L with a alpha pulsed beam emitter, and it seems great vs shields but not so hot vs hulls, is anyone else getting similar results?