Single ship = can't pilot other ships?

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

X is much more than just a space simulator (we are not just talking HawX in space). The FP aspects of the engine have been missed by many since X2, X3 did away with much of the character based story "movies" although they did exist in some limited form in X3:R IIRC.

What the hell ?
X has always been a space/economic simulation game.
X2 did *not* have any FP element (scripted plot scenes do not count) - just because you had the *option* to dock manually inside the station does not equal to FP walking.

I really do not understand people who want X to be a FPS/RTS/RPG/SIM/ETC game. Mixing everything only result in every part being very poor.

Like it or not (personally I do not care either way), there has been at least some demand for FP (on-foot) aspects to the game ever since X2 and if you are implementing scripting for X2-style FP plot cut scenes the easiest way is probably to go the whole hog and add FPS type character control functionality.

But back on to the point (and hopefully topic), X has always been much more than the sum of it's parts and different players value different aspects of the game in different ways.

To me the BIGGEST feature of an X-game is the ability to own and control fleets of ships be it for combat, trade or anything else. The nature of this would appear to have changed quite significantly and possibly for the better. If the improvements in fleet control come at the cost of being able to directly pilot more than 1 ship+drones then I am ok with it (in principle).

We do know multiple player pilotable ships are moddable so there is hope that the appropriate content will become available at some point in the future (either via official or fan authored mods/dlc/expansions - paid or otherwise).

Personally, I am glad that they did not impose further delays to the release just to allow them the necessary time to implement the relevant content to add multiple player ships in Vanilla.

Just be glad that we are not hard coded to piloting just the Skunk and it's drones.

[Geek]

Like it or not (personally I do not care either way), there has been at least some demand for FP (on-foot) aspects to the game ever since X2 and if you are implementing scripting for X2-style FP plot cut scenes the easiest way is probably to go the whole hog and add FPS type character control functionality.

You have really no idea how that works. Cutscenes, and fully interactive environements have not the same requirements at all. A game is not a movie, period.

To me the BIGGEST feature of an X-game is the ability to own and control fleets of ships be it for combat, trade or anything else. The nature of this would appear to have changed quite significantly and possibly for the better.

I disagree of this being the main feature, otherwise X would be a RTS.
And Rebirth do not improve this. Ships and crew are difficult to acquire and and the player have very little control on what they do.

We do know multiple player pilotable ships are moddable

We do not know this at all. Personally I highly doubt this.

Personally, I am glad that they did not impose further delays to the release just to allow them the necessary time to implement the relevant content to add multiple player ships in Vanilla.

Because of course, the time spent on interiors, 3D characters, etc could not have been used for something else. Riiiight.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

We do know multiple player pilotable ships are moddable

We do not know this at all. Personally I highly doubt this.

Apparently, it was confirmed in a recent interview with Bernd (mentioned earlier in this very thread if I am not mistaken)

[CutterJohn1]

We do know multiple player pilotable ships are moddable

We do not know this at all. Personally I highly doubt this.

Apparently, it was confirmed in a recent interview with Bernd (mentioned earlier in this very thread if I am not mistaken)

From here: http://www.incgamers.com/2013/11/x-rebi ... rnd-lehahn

IG: Almost every time a news piece or article about X Rebirth goes up, somebody will note that you can only fly one ship in this title (as opposed to a range in previous X games.) I believe it’s possible to fly others, but only by remote control. Can you explain the thought process behind this change?

This aspect of X Rebirth was something that was hotly discussed within Egosoft as well. This was not a decision we took lightly, but I would say a big factor in this decision was the reality that most ships are inherently not very interesting to fly. For instance, piloting a huge capital ship might seem exciting in theory, but the actual act of flying a capital ship is slow and ponderous. Unless we were willing to make the movement of such a ship unrealistic, turning and accelerating a capital ship is an experience that gets old really fast.

With this said, at launch, the player will only be able to fly one ship. But like we’ve seen in past X games, we will listen to our community’s feedback. Also, we are fortunate in having an extremely active modding community which we would not be surprised to see address this topic.

Emphasis mine.

We may not know the exact mechanism, or exactly how much support we'll get, or how well the extra ships will integrate into the game engine(i.e. can we buy them off the market, how do you switch ships, etc), but if that isn't an admission that yes, you can mod in new ships, I do not know what is.

but I'm still going to crumble about how its their own fault if capital ships aren't fun. This was a new game after all, and they could have changed up the dynamic, just as they did between X2 and X3.

[Geek]

It is very far from an assertion to me.

Remember, we are talking about different ships, not just a remodeled Skunk.
Many, many things will have to change in the gameplay to allow the player to fly something really different.

Maybe it is technically possible but it is far more work than just a 3D model.

[CutterJohn1]

It is very far from an assertion to me.

Remember, we are talking about different ships, not just a remodeled Skunk.
Many, many things will have to change in the gameplay to allow the player to fly something really different.

Maybe it is technically possible but it is far more work than just a 3D model.

I'm aware. I put those caveats into my post. Still, I consider it unlikely that there is zero support for it in game, or zero planned support. I'd bet good money on there being systems in game for multiple player ships, if for no other reason than I'm sure they've tried it at points in the past and left those systems in place for future expansions, and Bernd himself stated the decision was hotly contested in their offices.

[HogMaster]

While as the concept of not flying large capital ships manually I can understand, as I would rather be the Commander rather than the Pilot.

I have just been watching all of the Battlestar Galactica series on Netflix/LOVEFILM and I'm hoping for some kind of 3D bridge/command center where the Captain and his officers are located.

So I can land my personal ship (The Pride of Albion) and walk/run to the bridge/command center and command my ship or fleet.

But I would very much like to see an immersive environment rather than finding the Captain sitting on a chair in some hallway or uninspiring room.

However when it comes down to your personal ship being the unchangeable Pride of Albion.... then I do get slightly annoyed.
Surely you would be able to buy, capture, salvage any ship for your personal "play thing".

At the very least let us have different design layouts of the ship... I'm thinking like the tier 3 cruisers in EVE Online where their appearance changes depending on the subsystems you have mounted.

I'm hoping for DLC or patches later on adding in different starting scenarios with different ships of varying sizes, design and abilities or at at least other "player flyable ships" which you can buy and swap out...

So lets say there were four player flying ships, I had bought each one, fitted them out and had them transported to my carrier capital ship.
I could land on the carrier, run around the hanger and change ship depending on my needs.

Or at least give us a few options rather than giving us the one and saying tough cookies if you like it or not... its down to personal preference at the end of the day and I read way too many people using the "capital ships are boring" argument..

1) Some people want to.... sandbox?
2) Why does that mean we cannot have our pick of smaller craft?

[CutterJohn1]

While as the concept of not flying large capital ships manually I can understand, as I would rather be the Commander rather than the Pilot.

Why not both? It is not as if being a commander is particularly taxing. I guarantee you it will be nothing like BSG.

Heck, even the Silent Hunter games made you do most everything.

[hisazul]

DLC that unlocks pre-installed features, dlc that adds skins... is an insult. Don't confuse that with things that add meaningful content. Nowdays dlc is mainly associated with milking the user in the form of trippling the price w/o giving a damn worth of content.

Look at the triple A titles like Batman Arkham whatever... you double the price and what do you get? Shit that was already installed in form of more tights and few maps which you probably will play once and never return to.

If egosoft tries to sell me more ships... I will walk.

Some people have principles which they don't bend easily. I won't pay for games with drm that makes me feel like a thief in handcuffs(ubisoft... starforce and now full online for single player? hell no)... nor will I ever feed nonsense like Rockstar, they came from PC now they treat it like a rash. I get gta games when they are in trash bin for 5 buks or less... with a "JUST TAKE IT ALREADY" sign.

I can dismiss 1 title with features/changes I didn't like and just wait for next one. No big deal. I stuck with egosoft long enough to give the benefit of the doubt. But if they change their model to something I won't deal with out of principle. Then thats that. I will walk away with at least my pride intact.

[Challenge]

Egosoft has a good reputation in this respect, hisazul. They've encouraged the modding community in the past, provided free patches and updates -- often including some player mods as features. I have never been disappointed in anything I had to pay for from these folks and I've been flying through the X-Universe since BTF.

I know there are a lot of companies that build games with the intent of soaking gamers just to unlock areas already in the game, but as far as I can tell from my experience, Egosoft hasn't been one of them. I understand your feelings, but I think the concern is premature based on past experience.

[Alci]

If egosoft tries to sell me more ships... I will walk.

I don't require flying more small ships in one "new game". And if Egosoft makes it one day that "New game" offers you "campaign selection" with different universe (place/systems/placed stations/ship models/time) and sell one DLC with new 20h plot and different ship and another DLC with another "troubled universe" let's say 40 years later with another character and ship.. I will get them all

Even Elite 2 had different starts.

[Ivorystate]

Egosoft has a good reputation in this respect, hisazul. They've encouraged the modding community in the past, provided free patches and updates -- often including some player mods as features. I have never been disappointed in anything I had to pay for from these folks and I've been flying through the X-Universe since BTF.

I know there are a lot of companies that build games with the intent of soaking gamers just to unlock areas already in the game, but as far as I can tell from my experience, Egosoft hasn't been one of them. I understand your feelings, but I think the concern is premature based on past experience.

This, until I play the game I'm just going to put my faith in the developers I trust.

[Haysand]

Egosoft has a good reputation in this respect, hisazul. They've encouraged the modding community in the past, provided free patches and updates -- often including some player mods as features. I have never been disappointed in anything I had to pay for from these folks and I've been flying through the X-Universe since BTF.

All X previous games were improvements of the predecessor. They were developing proven design and features.

Rebirth on the other hand is a new game from scratch. It is entirely different concept and leads of past games do not apply here.

[Mauzi!]

This, until I play the game I'm just going to put my faith in the developers I trust.

Even if I risk a brown-nosing medal with this, I shall say that amongst all the game developers out there that crossed my path in all my many years Egosoft is the single and only one that stayed true to their vision and never bended over to silly marketing/publishing just to make a quick coin.

They also never let down the playerbase but instead did the opposite, listening and incorporating things that the playerbase requested, resulting in a give-and-take relation since much of the new game content was happily created by mostly unpayed players who wanted to improve the game - and that even years and years after the game was originally released.

If such history record doesn't deserve some trust, nothing will. And even if the start most likely will be as bumpy as with most releases, we can be assured that they'll iron out the bugs to their very best efforts - which is something that most other game developers couldn't ever dare to claim.

Okay, end of brown-nosing - Egosoft, feel free to PM me for my bank account numbers !

[DaddyMonster]

This, until I play the game I'm just going to put my faith in the developers I trust.

Even if I risk a brown-nosing medal with this, I shall say that amongst all the game developers out there that crossed my path in all my many years Egosoft is the single and only one that stayed true to their vision and never bended over to silly marketing/publishing just to make a quick coin.

They also never let down the playerbase but instead did the opposite, listening and incorporating things that the playerbase requested, resulting in a give-and-take relation since much of the new game content was happily created by mostly unpayed players who wanted to improve the game - and that even years and years after the game was originally released.

If such history record doesn't deserve some trust, nothing will. And even if the start most likely will be as bumpy as with most releases, we can be assured that they'll iron out the bugs to their very best efforts - which is something that most other game developers couldn't ever dare to claim.

Okay, end of brown-nosing - Egosoft, feel free to PM me for my bank account numbers !

Stating something that everyone (who knows the company) knows to be true is not brown-nosing, don't worry.

Well, I shouldn't speak for others but I've not heard anyone with actual experience say otherwise that I can recollect. Though I'm sure I'm about to be corrected

Interestingly, Bernd said in a recent interview that they had perhaps gone too far in that direction in the past. Listening so much that they made a game for the needs of their core fans and perhaps piled more and more features which were not originally planned so that the beast became unwieldy and alienated the wider market. He said he's looking forward to finally having some competition, to give him something else to build strategy upon.

ps. are we still having the one ship debate. Is that even possible after all this time?

[hisazul]

Yep.. I agree they so far in more then 10 years didn't go anal route. But every time talk about dlc comes out of the closet. I remember good developers going under thanks to the "we are business" mentality. And the whole lets ignore long standing player base and cater to future/maybe crowd that cheers that dlc is awesomesause. Then all resources are dumped into making worthless junk and milking pennies instead of putting resources towards an even half decent xpack. By the time realization hit they have nobody there to lean on. Only option left is to sell to ea/activision release one more title and then get tossed out like an old mop.

Anyhoo I'm getting really tired of staring at my damn steam pre-order. I want go have a legitimate excuse to complain about 1 ship design. Preferences is all good... but I know there has got to be something else I will not like and miss from old series.

[Geek]

ps. are we still having the one ship debate. Is that even possible after all this time?

Why not ?
You would be surprised by the amount of people who blindly bought the game without even knowing this "feature", and are upset about it.
This matter is not going to end.

[hisazul]

ps. are we still having the one ship debate. Is that even possible after all this time?

Why not ?
You would be surprised by the amount of people who blindly bought the game without even knowing this "feature", and are upset about it.
This matter is not going to end.

On top of that some do not like "spoilers" so they avoided looking at any info but eventually ended up knowing anyway but didn't like it.

[Arraamis]

ps. are we still having the one ship debate. Is that even possible after all this time?

Why not ?
You would be surprised by the amount of people who blindly bought the game without even knowing this "feature", and are upset about it.
This matter is not going to end.

Count me in on that group that didn't fully understand the feature changes in XR.

I mainly brought XR to support the ongoing development of the franchise, to support the DEV's and because I like the series. Everything else is pretty much secondary because if I'm in a position to -- I will continue to support anything X. Plus and more importantly, based on past experiences, I'm more than guaranteed to enjoy the newest release XR.

So, the single ship thing isn't a genuine deal breaker by no means. And I have high hopes that based on the feedback pouring in from users that either the DEV's or the community will find a way to add more user controlled ships.

What I am really pissed about is that I may not even get a chance to play the game until late Saturday, because I have to take care of of a few responsibilities first.

[hisazul]

Count me in on that group that didn't fully understand the feature changes in XR.

I mainly brought XR to support the ongoing development of the franchise, to support the DEV's and because I like the series. Everything else is pretty much secondary because if I'm in a position to -- I will continue to support anything X. Plus and more importantly, based on past experiences, I'm more than guaranteed to enjoy the newest release XR.

So, the single ship thing isn't a genuine deal breaker by no means. And I have high hopes that based on the feedback pouring in from users that either the DEV's or the community will find a way to add more user controlled ships.

What I am really pissed about is that I may not even get a chance to play the game until late Saturday, because I have to take care of of a few responsibilities first.

Lol I bought ce steam edition to support ego but already knowing I hated the bloody skunk. >_< Does that make me a sad person? Or hopeful person... Hmm...

I find it odd, I grown tired of hyperion over the years but I shall miss ability to dock a scout ship with my personal one. That was a helova orgasmic perk hyperion gave.