X4 A Mess?

[Grouch Potato]

I still don't understand, after owning this game since launch, that a game that encourages you to build stations in space doesn't have a space flight academy module for each faction that you can build on your stations that enables you to train pilots for your spaceships.

[ezra-r]

X4 is amazing and complex, and its not perfect.

I still awe at a Wharf landing pad, seeing ships landing and leaving vs you , there, so tiny.

The factory builder is simply amazing.

So many stories, quests, missions. Buy 20 corvettes to join your squad with different types of weapons and go cause havok anywhere... it will be fun to see the fireworks.

Avarice tides? Tides (harmless but RED) in Litany of Fury.

The Xenon advancing everywhere they can causing havok.

Terraforming anyone? Such vast amount of resources you have to gather and plan factories in specific points.

There are so many things I love in this game, and some others that may get on my nerves sometimes but I try to work around them, but the complexity of it all, well organized complexity, is simply Egosoft masterpiece.

So when I see threads like this, and people complaining for more...I am just puzzled, of course everyone wants more.. but complain about missing this or that when there is already so much.

About the op points.

* Managing stuff.. my late game have dozens of fleets and factories everywhere, I own a big chunk of the map already. The map is a quite powerful tool and the options.. I don't really see a poor attempt of anything, even less a console port. Perhaps you should explain more what you mean by this
* (Why can't I mix weapons from other races with other races ships?) You can mix other races can mix weapons, ships, engines.. except for boron ships, you just have to own the blueprints and have your own shipyard.. so I can already see you are complaining because you haven't experienced half of the game yet.
* Performance.. tricky subject... quite complex universe in your own pc.

Some things can be improved of course..

[BitByte]

I still don't understand, after owning this game since launch, that a game that encourages you to build stations in space doesn't have a space flight academy module for each faction that you can build on your stations that enables you to train pilots for your spaceships.

Terraforming gives you possibility to train pilots AND marines. If perform group training you can have 100 trainees and they gain 1 star each trainng round (up to 4 stars).

[Vheissu]

My biggest gripe is with the un-uniformity of the UI, Egosoft needs to hire or kidnap a UI designer.

Second biggest gripe is documentation. For a game with a scope like this, it's extremely little information IN-GAME about anything really.

Very happy I'm not the only one saying this!

X4 is amazing and complex, and its not perfect.
...

So when I see threads like this, and people complaining for more...I am just puzzled, of course everyone wants more.. but complain about missing this or that when there is already so much.

...

Some things can be improved of course..

It's ok and important to point out flaws! The game does so many things right that it is totally tragic when other parts of it don't work at all.

Particularly important to point out issues with UI, the game not communicating information well and awkward controls. The developers and users who have been playing it for a long time are blind to issues that are readily apparent to a new player. It's a pretty normal phenomenon in development, its almost impossible to notice issues in a product one has been working on for years. That counts both for developers and experienced players.

[BitByte]

Particularly important to point out issues with UI, the game not communicating information well and awkward controls. The developers and users who have been playing it for a long time are blind to issues that are readily apparent to a new player. It's a pretty normal phenomenon in development, its almost impossible to notice issues in a product one has been working on for years. That counts both for developers and experienced players.

UI in many cases is compromise between usability and visual look. Yes there is something what could be improved but also need keep in mind that if want keep some things enough clear you cannot put everything to 1 place. If using as an example example conversation choices - there's limited area where put selections so something needs be placed behind "more" option.
On the other hand now as X4 is in quite "mature" state (being developed long time and going in version 6.x) there would be risk if do dramatic UI changes. That would affect so many players whom have already used to operate in the game how it now looks (not least those whom have own limitations like lowered sight).
That's why it might be next game (e.g. X5) where major UI changes could be tested and implemented in early stage of the game.

[Nerwesta]

Particularly important to point out issues with UI, the game not communicating information well and awkward controls. The developers and users who have been playing it for a long time are blind to issues that are readily apparent to a new player. It's a pretty normal phenomenon in development, its almost impossible to notice issues in a product one has been working on for years. That counts both for developers and experienced players.

UI in many cases is compromise between usability and visual look. Yes there is something what could be improved but also need keep in mind that if want keep some things enough clear you cannot put everything to 1 place. If using as an example example conversation choices - there's limited area where put selections so something needs be placed behind "more" option.
On the other hand now as X4 is in quite "mature" state (being developed long time and going in version 6.x) there would be risk if do dramatic UI changes. That would affect so many players whom have already used to operate in the game how it now looks (not least those whom have own limitations like lowered sight).
That's why it might be next game (e.g. X5) where major UI changes could be tested and implemented in early stage of the game.

This assumes the usability is in check, to my opinion it isn't, and I suspect very small fixes would do wonders to it.
For a quick example, being able to move certain panels around or expand/shrink the said panels would greatly enhance the User Experience in the Universe Map.
They literally did the above enhancement for that small chatbox a small fraction of people got into on their online feature.

Like, having more than 4 labels including resources to filter the map, it still baffles me how I have to delete and redo the list all the time because the UI on that part is tiny enough just to hold 4 labels.
Don't get me started about the Logical Overview of a station that forces us to move that tiny slider from left to right.

[-=SiR KiLLaLoT=-]

X Series before the arrival of tens of thousands of users:

Trade, Fight, Build, Think

X Series after the arrival of tens of thousands of users:

Trade, Fight, Build, COMPLAIN

How sad

[Nanook]

...
Don't get me started about the Logical Overview of a station that forces us to move that tiny slider from left to right.

So you aren't aware that you can simply type in amounts on that slider?

[Vheissu]

They are referring to the slider at the bottom of the logical overview. There is a lot of screen space and yet one can't see all the tiers of ware production without moving the slider just a tiny bit to the right. This is a good example of UI design that just needs some adjustments to greatly improve the user experience. Funny anecdote: It took several days for me to discover that it was possible to change buy/sell orders on stuff like quantum tubes and hull parts, precisely because their boxes were hidden and the slider is so small that I didn't notice it.

Apart from that, I think the logical overview is very clean and provides a great overview.

Many of the UI/interface complaints are things that don't require a total redesign. It's like watching a marathon runner stumble at the last moment before crossing the line. Just a little bit more work and it would be great.

X Series before the arrival of tens of thousands of users:

Trade, Fight, Build, Think

X Series after the arrival of tens of thousands of users:

Trade, Fight, Build, COMPLAIN

How sad

Please consider that criticisms are not an attack on you, the game, or the developers.

Please also consider that more people participating in the X community will contribute not only to making the game better through giving Egosoft more resources but also to fostering a thriving community of players and modders.

I'm a veteran X3 player and expect many other folks with complaints have been fans of Egosoft for longer than I have. My comments are because I like the game and think it could be better.

[-=SiR KiLLaLoT=-]

Please consider that criticisms are not an attack on you, the game, or the developers.

Please also consider that more people participating in the X community will contribute not only to making the game better through giving Egosoft more resources but also to fostering a thriving community of players and modders.

I'm a veteran X3 player and expect many other folks with complaints have been fans of Egosoft for longer than I have. My comments are because I like the game and think it could be better.

Of course, mine was just a generic joke about what I've been reading for 10 years now (exactly since the arrival of XR). Of course, feedback improves the quality of the game, as do complaints.
The point is that, often, complaints turn into insults towards the poor developers who, like all developers, need time to evolve a gigantic project like X4

I repeat that it's just a joke and I hope that over time the complaints will change into feedback, much more polite to expose to people who dedicate their working lives to entertain us players

[Vheissu]

No worries, sounds like we're on the same wavelength

That attitude is never good, no matter who it's directed at. And I imagine times were tough during XR's release, I only saw the press as I didn't have a rig capable of running it at the time.

[Grouch Potato]

I still don't understand, after owning this game since launch, that a game that encourages you to build stations in space doesn't have a space flight academy module for each faction that you can build on your stations that enables you to train pilots for your spaceships.

Terraforming gives you possibility to train pilots AND marines. If perform group training you can have 100 trainees and they gain 1 star each trainng round (up to 4 stars).

Yes I know what benefits terraforming give you, I also know that we had Military Training Outposts in X3.

I also know that by the time I get to terraforming, I will already have many highly skilled marines and I might even have 1 or 2 (if I'm lucky) 4 star pilots.

I also know that if I ever get a Wasps nest in the attic, I could burn the house down and that will get rid of the Wasps nest, or of course I could simply choose one of the less extreme more sensible options available to me.

[GCU Grey Area]

I also know that by the time I get to terraforming, I will already have many highly skilled marines and I might even have 1 or 2 (if I'm lucky) 4 star pilots.

'Terraforming' is a bit of a misnomer in this context. As long as you pick one of the easier planets (e.g. Black Hole Sun, Memory of Profit) all that is required is a Bubble City to provide habitation & the training facilities themselves. There's no need to make the planet as a whole habitable at this stage if all you want is an inexhaustible supply of 4*+ pilots & marines. Generally aim to get my training setup within the first 2-3 days of starting a new game & from that point on every ship I own is flown by at least a 4* pilot (5* for L/XL warships) & whenever I need to do a boarding op I have highly skilled marines available to do it, rather than the inept 0* cannon fodder you get from shipyards & wharves.

[jlehtone]

I also know that by the time I get to terraforming, I will already have ...

What do you need to get there? To get to those schools?
1. PHQ (now force feeded to new KE players)
2. Research teleport to Mass II (which takes way less than Mahi Ma did)
3. The small steps that GCU did mention

[dtpsprt]

I also know that by the time I get to terraforming, I will already have many highly skilled marines and I might even have 1 or 2 (if I'm lucky) 4 star pilots.

'Terraforming' is a bit of a misnomer in this context. As long as you pick one of the easier planets (e.g. Black Hole Sun, Memory of Profit) all that is required is a Bubble City to provide habitation & the training facilities themselves. There's no need to make the planet as a whole habitable at this stage if all you want is an inexhaustible supply of 4*+ pilots & marines. Generally aim to get my training setup within the first 2-3 days of starting a new game & from that point on every ship I own is flown by at least a 4* pilot (5* for L/XL warships) & whenever I need to do a boarding op I have highly skilled marines available to do it, rather than the inept 0* cannon fodder you get from shipyards & wharves.

Again you fail to mention that these 2-3 days are game days and not actual days... Nonetheless pilot training is going to be a mute subject with the oncoming of Ventures (they are in Beta now) with pilots getting stars for participating in them and the time for Ventures is in actual real life minutes/hours...

As far as Marines go I, personally, prefer making the rounds on a Defence Station, hiring 15 2-2,5* Marines (130-500K each) to crew my Minotaur Raider (captured from SCA), enough to board any civilian ship and "upgrade" to 25 for my Cobra (for free from the Split Plot), enough to board a Rattlesnake or an Asgard or a Raptor, just out of the Shipyard...

[GCU Grey Area]

Again you fail to mention that these 2-3 days are game days and not actual days... Nonetheless pilot training is going to be a mute subject with the oncoming of Ventures (they are in Beta now) with pilots getting stars for participating in them and the time for Ventures is in actual real life minutes/hours...

Yes, game days. Thought that would be obvious. Would be ludicrous to express it in real life days, because the amount of time each individual can spend playing X4 varies widely depending on what other commitments they may have.

As for Ventures, would not recommend relying on it for pilot training. Can only train a single pilot at a time (unlike HQ training which is done in batches of 100) & it's quite risky. Have lost many more Venture pilots than any others in my current game. Frankly it's been carnage, to date 70 of them have failed to return.

Also question which is quicker. HQ training can get 100 pilots (or marines) to 4* in 4x20 minute training sessions, with a single additional 20 minute individual training session to get to 5*. Have been sending HQ-trained 4* pilots on Ventures & the survivors have taken multiple 10-20 minute Ventures to get to 5*. It is good for raising morale though.

[alt3rn1ty]

I also know that by the time I get to terraforming, I will already have many highly skilled marines and I might even have 1 or 2 (if I'm lucky) 4 star pilots.

'Terraforming' is a bit of a misnomer in this context. As long as you pick one of the easier planets (e.g. Black Hole Sun, Memory of Profit) all that is required is a Bubble City to provide habitation & the training facilities themselves. There's no need to make the planet as a whole habitable at this stage if all you want is an inexhaustible supply of 4*+ pilots & marines. Generally aim to get my training setup within the first 2-3 days of starting a new game & from that point on every ship I own is flown by at least a 4* pilot (5* for L/XL warships) & whenever I need to do a boarding op I have highly skilled marines available to do it, rather than the inept 0* cannon fodder you get from shipyards & wharves.

Again you fail to mention that these 2-3 days are game days and not actual days... Nonetheless pilot training is going to be a mute subject with the oncoming of Ventures (they are in Beta now) with pilots getting stars for participating in them and the time for Ventures is in actual real life minutes/hours...

As far as Marines go I, personally, prefer making the rounds on a Defence Station, hiring 15 2-2,5* Marines (130-500K each) to crew my Minotaur Raider (captured from SCA), enough to board any civilian ship and "upgrade" to 25 for my Cobra (for free from the Split Plot), enough to board a Rattlesnake or an Asgard or a Raptor, just out of the Shipyard...

I sometimes wonder if doing all of the Terraforming tasks (like Temple, Fine dining etcetera) adds to the quality of Pilots and Marines produced.
I always do all of them (just immersion really, I imagine I am making a happier community down there) .. But I never get less than four and a half star Pilots/Marines, the majority of them are full five Star.

[Submarine]

... if it could have been put through a Quality of life team it would be a lot better to use.

Egosoft has really sold out bad on this series now with all the DLC and lack of content!

This will be my last EGOSOFT product.

I have to say this is also my take on X4.

I tried to give it a chance but after 900 hours of play and a lot of polite feedback, I feel it is too aggravating to play.

The DLCs add scenery but did not improve qol and playability.

It is disappointing not to see any progress and unlike other games I play, where devs respond and improve the playability of the game, egosoft seem incorrigible, non responsive and don't understand what is important to players.

Which is where we part company.

[shovelmonkey]

Egosoft has really sold out bad on this series now with all the DLC and lack of content!

This will be my last EGOSOFT product.

Love these tantrum posts.

X4, while not perfect, is clearly a labor of love by the devs. The devs are also quite set in their ways. The devs also have a certain design philosophy they follow which has been sucessful, barring outliers such as yourself.

I myself have over 1000 hours playing through the jank, and while having been frustrated by things at times have always came back and generally enjoyed me time. The hours I've played have more than been payed for.

Bye.

[Grouch Potato]

I also know that by the time I get to terraforming, I will already have many highly skilled marines and I might even have 1 or 2 (if I'm lucky) 4 star pilots.

'Terraforming' is a bit of a misnomer in this context. As long as you pick one of the easier planets (e.g. Black Hole Sun, Memory of Profit) all that is required is a Bubble City to provide habitation & the training facilities themselves. There's no need to make the planet as a whole habitable at this stage if all you want is an inexhaustible supply of 4*+ pilots & marines. Generally aim to get my training setup within the first 2-3 days of starting a new game & from that point on every ship I own is flown by at least a 4* pilot (5* for L/XL warships) & whenever I need to do a boarding op I have highly skilled marines available to do it, rather than the inept 0* cannon fodder you get from shipyards & wharves.

I have no interest in Terraforming and I dont want to be shoe horned into it either just to have a way to train pilots. I'll rephrase; "I also know that by the time I get into a position where I could start terraforming if I wanted", how's that?

I find it quite nonsensical that If you want a decent supply of decent pilots, then you must terraform. I have no problem with training marines myself, they can be trained in a decent amount through boarding ops and at a decent pace. I also train some pilots myself too, but mostly as my co-pilot and this takes alot of time and also that's just 1 at a time.

If you want to start all your playthroughs exactly the same way, go for it. I started the X-series with X3 Reunion and I still like to think of the X games as a proper sandbox where I have the freedom to do what I want when I want and set my own goals.

For context, my first post in this thread was:

I still don't understand, after owning this game since launch, that a game that encourages you to build stations in space doesn't have a space flight academy module for each faction that you can build on your stations that enables you to train pilots for your spaceships.

I also know that by the time I get to terraforming, I will already have ...

What do you need to get there? To get to those schools?
1. PHQ (now force feeded to new KE players)
2. Research teleport to Mass II (which takes way less than Mahi Ma did)
3. The small steps that GCU did mention

Well done, you brought nothing.

Again you fail to mention that these 2-3 days are game days and not actual days... Nonetheless pilot training is going to be a mute subject with the oncoming of Ventures (they are in Beta now) with pilots getting stars for participating in them and the time for Ventures is in actual real life minutes/hours...

As far as Marines go I, personally, prefer making the rounds on a Defence Station, hiring 15 2-2,5* Marines (130-500K each) to crew my Minotaur Raider (captured from SCA), enough to board any civilian ship and "upgrade" to 25 for my Cobra (for free from the Split Plot), enough to board a Rattlesnake or an Asgard or a Raptor, just out of the Shipyard...

Ventures isn't for me, I care little for it and I wont be shoe horned into that either. Why would a pilot train more quicker in another players universe than your own?

I generally play as a Split and I hand pick my marines from Split defence stations.

If there was a Split planet that could be terraformed and I would get Split pilots from it, then perhaps I would try terraforming too.