What Foundations needs to add as Egosoft moves forwards or consider for their next installment

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Do you agree with my Ideas?(Multiple choices available)

I agree on the pirates idea!
32
28%
I agree on the Idea of Companies!
22
19%
I agree with the lack of ship types, varations, and roles!
36
31%
I agree on the issue of combat speed!
8
7%
I agree on the matter of payload based combat!
11
9%
I agree with the options I voted for(if any) but the rest I do not, or they are simply not close enough to my views to agree with!
3
3%
I hate you, your ideas, and think your a selfish Teladi Scumbag!
1
1%
I neither agree, nor disagree!
3
3%
 
Total votes: 116

Lychee
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu, 19. Mar 20, 22:48

What Foundations needs to add as Egosoft moves forwards or consider for their next installment

Post by Lychee » Sun, 22. Mar 20, 23:22

This game is lacking several things I think it really needs to be able to compare to the older X3 games and really just perform at a level that is aproaching its maximum potential; That is pirate factions, rival companies, ship quantity/variation, combat speed, and drones+missiles.



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First, pirates. Maybe adding a couple different pirate factions which each one may have their own sector(s) and have their own wares that they sell as secondary goods to the various other races within the X4 universe, perhaps a Return of the Yaki. They should be able to form their own fleets, have their own capital ships, and be able to do real raids, and masquerade as other ships like in X3. The key difference being that now in X4, they are an actual faction that may have their own war dynamics. I feel the game is kind of empty and small, while the Split Vendetta is coming out and will hopefully address the "smallness" feeling I get looking at the map and travelling around not seeing much really happen. It would be nice to add in a bounty system like the X3AP/TC XRM mod has to track various pirates that are becoming particularly notorious and make the universe feel more "alive" because more events are being tracked and various factions and rival captains are developing the universe according to their own AI goals.
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Secondly Companies, one of the things I really liked about X3 was that independent companies had their own race affiliations, and even could produce some of their own unique ships like the Jonferco brands. sure they would be just different models of the race's main ships because of the idea of "manufacturing brands" but they had their own set of perks compared to other ships of the same model but different variants. The second nicety of this was that they also produced their own goods, and while they didn't necessarily expand on their own, in X4 with the existing AI they would have the capacity for it. They would be able to ally with various factions and help spur political/military conflicts that are honestly just a little bland for me in X4. I am not asking for the stock market, that would be cool, but unnecessary to me, but I just feel like the lack of different factions also contributes to the "smallness" of the universe.
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Thirdly, the lack of ship types is rather... disappointing, with the departure from the old system of many ship classifications we have kind of approached a system where I don't find interceptors, or scouts useful, outside of quick traveling player ships. They aren't that great at combat, and if your looking to get good combat ships you take regular fighters or Heavy fighters. There is only one actual capital ship, per faction and to top it off, once you look at the combat oriented ships between L and XL, they all have the same basic design with just small variations. I find this the most obvious with the Teladi, every single one of their L and XL ships have the exact same front, and some variation or simple cutoff of the rear of the ship. Incredibly minimal variations. With Split coming around the corner, I am glad to see the introduction of bomber classes now, and a new race of ships. but the outside the argon race, I find the variations particularly disappointing and probably needing a revisit. However I do see some nice design in the Mediums and smalls, and I realllllly like that Teladi Gunboat, mmmm Sexy.

I think we should add a true non-carrier capital ship for each faction that Isn't an auxiliary resupply ship. Direct ship to ship fights are kind of an integral part of the previous series and most space games. A departure from that is kind of disappointing I mean, fighter swarms are cool but still having capital ships duking it out in space in powerful volley-fire-fights would be nice too. The bomber additions would be a good start to a counter for that class that we are already getting with split DLC. Adding escort ship classes that are heavily laden with anti-fighter weaponry, but not being effective at capital fights of their own level would also be great. This would allow for handling defensive roles against bombers for their large capital ship escorting duties. (running a dive bomber through destroyer and light cruiser anti-air ships to hit that carrier or battleship in wwII terms).
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Fourthly, I have gotten used to the slower speed of ships in this game. I often still go back to play the x3 games just for nostalgia, and one of the thing I keep wishing for myself when I do that and then come back to X4, is that I really wish the top speed for fighters was sitting around the 600~ish mark, at least for some of them. Various m5's in X3AP for instance are on average at around 400 with split and some argon variants going at around 400-500. Th kestrel was a 600m/s scout. I mean you would need to start introducing longer range weaponry to intercept incoming fighter better on capital ships, but with the improvements to the Targeting AI I have been very pleased with the turret accuracy, and the better fighter AI as well. They might have trouble still, but they have come a long way. That aside, an attack run on a capital ship feels like it always needs boosting now, and because boosting consumes shield power I have a rather big disdain for using it in combat. An alternate approach could be to just have a boost pool separate from shields, and incorporate its use more into AI for that. But overall dog-fighting is VERY slow for me, of course the capital ships will probably get some moderate speed boosts too, but being able to get in and out of ship combats, is a fighter's purpose and is what makes them dangerous. Having counter-screening ships and fighters would be more important and make for more intense factions fights as mentioned in the previous section.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with the previous X3 game's ship classification systems and/or have forgotten them, Basically every ship in X4 is as slow as one ship size above it, if it were in X3. Meaning if we pretend your S class ship were in X3 right now, it would be as slow as X3's equivalent of your m class ships. Still don't understand? your fighter is too slow to outrun a Heavy destroyer or light cruiser from the X3 games.
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Fifth, I tend to find a major lack of missile and drone use in AI ships. I miss having huge amounts of missiles flying everywhere letting my PD turrets take them out before they land their hits. The AI uses them i see occasionally, but often times I kill fighters that have anti-fighter missiles and they aren't shooting MY fighter with them. Of course one the big issues here is that X4;Foundations doesn't really have S class ships with turrets, so taking out those missiles comes to shooting them manually or drones. So adding more payload based combat would require a revisit of S class ships. In the end various S ships need the ability to fire different classes of missiles, as a built in function, or have missile tubes be a totally separate customization slot that is not taking the place of a normal energy/projectile weapon hard-point. Drones need independent launch bays that are built in as a function of various ships too, have to admit I don't use drones very often, so it has been a while since I touched them. However, They shouldn't use bays, they should deploy just like cargo, mining, and repair drones do from Mining ships etc. They need to add the drone dock back as a hard-point, and then Focus on drones as a combat utility such as for missile defense/ minor shield drones that try to take some of the large capital ship weapon hits for you, or get limited to short range fighter interception etc.
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Anyway in the end, I still play both X4:Foundations, and X3:AP these days. I can't really make up my mind as to which one I like better. I enjoy X3 for its large universe, many ship types, intense missile fights, and the many antagonistic factions that feel like the universe is alive and developing without you, for better and worse. On the otherhand, I love having cockpits, ship interiors, custom stations, customizable ship productions, more drone options, actual war system and BIG ships by scale comparison. In the end though, when I install X3:AP with the XRM mod, and maybe some IR2.0 onto that, it just wins for me outright. I am sure that the mod community here will develop something to counteract the games shortcoming in the following years, but for now x3 just stands out for me more, even though I really do prefer ships that aren't just health-bars as a MAJOR consideration for X4.


P.S. I plan to change these recommendations a lot, so come back and revisit them when you feel like, and change your poll vote, because that is a thing you can do :)
Last edited by Lychee on Wed, 25. Mar 20, 16:19, edited 10 times in total.

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mr.WHO
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Re: What Foundations needs to add as Egosoft moves forwards or consider for their next installment

Post by mr.WHO » Sun, 22. Mar 20, 23:40

Drones will be improved in 3.0.

As for companies - there are other more important things than this (I selected Pirates and ship variety - also better automatic missile resupply).

There are indicators in 3.0 code that Egosoft is worknig on Pirates.

3 new ships in 3.0 gives hope for more ships, but Egosoft stated they have problems with adding more big ships (they posted job for 3D artist recently).

Tomonor
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Re: What Foundations needs to add as Egosoft moves forwards or consider for their next installment

Post by Tomonor » Sun, 22. Mar 20, 23:58

1. Pirates are really lacking right now. Any sort of upgrade to them would be welcome. But since it's all about resources and consumer expectations, I doubt we will get complete nomadic AI pirates anytime soon. Yeah, it would be totally awesome if they would be procedurally generated dynamic factions with the capability to adapt, overcome, expand. But right now, it seems too much to ask.

2. As X4 stands right now, the concept behind it that everything is generalised to almost over-simplicity. The Corporations you speak of still exist in the lore (there are hints of them ingame), but they don't really have a technical presence ingame. Introducing them would probably screw up the already imperfect balance between factions to the extreme.

3a. While I do agree that by vanilla X standards there aren't too many ships to choose from, Egosoft keep adding them by both patches (3 new vanilla ships are coming with v3.0, and a multitude of them by the DLC). Battleships (XL warships) are most likely not given to player's hands to keep the player not too overpowered for now. That would render the gameplay imbalanced.

3b. Not sure what you mean by the "new bomber class". In fact, the old bombers were just scrapped and renamed to Gunboats since Egosoft realised that in X4's case, you can turn pretty much any ship into a bomber with the universal Torpedo launcher.

Do note that the previous points are addressable by mods, and there are attempts at solving these problems already. Keep on eye out on the modding section and Nexusmods/Steam.

4. Once again, am I missing something? In my memory, X3 fighter ships maxed out around 200ms, not at 600ms. In fact, I thought ships in X4 are pretty fast for X game standards, especially with the available boost and travel modes. Anyway, I find the current ship speeds pretty apt for this game.

5a. Yes, ships spawned with missile launchers are a rarity for some reason. In my opinion, separating missile tubes from ships to be optional launchers was a mistake by gameplay standpoint. This step pretty much removed missile usage from the game.

5b. By drones, I presume you meant Fighter drones. You don't see them often, because they became actual S-class ships that require actual launchpads to be spawned. Thus they can't be deployed by the ship's entrance bay. Funnily, Lasertowers can fit through that tiny hole. Ironic.
Image

Lychee
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Re: What Foundations needs to add as Egosoft moves forwards or consider for their next installment

Post by Lychee » Mon, 23. Mar 20, 00:17

1. Yes I know, it would be hard to implement, but whether reasonable or not, or whether they will do it or not, I feel it still needs to be done in the future. I am guessing dev-power isn't exactly the highest it has ever been really.

2. I totally agree, but X-games were never really truly 'balanced, but that is also somethign the modding community and time can fix with patches.

3. By bomber I meant they need to have S class ships with capacity for torpedoes without using hardpoints, they need to do things like minimize compatible ships with the torpedo launcher systems because of that. This is should be seperate from missiles though

4. As for the Speeds in X3AP, the standard buster raider had a speed of 334, the kestrel was at around 600, Argon Discoverer raider variant was at around 430, and for m5 classes, the split all exceeded 400 and had some 500s too. Use Roguey's website to check out ship speeds, if you don't want to bother installing the games. Now we see ships sitting around an average of 200-300 for S which is basically the m6-m3 range and far outside the m4 and m5 classifications. Basically put, everything flies about as slow as an escort vessel or as fast as a heavy fighter for the ships in the S range.

5.yup. They need independent launch bays

probably should edit the post to be more clear, sorry.

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Matthew94
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Re: What Foundations needs to add as Egosoft moves forwards or consider for their next installment

Post by Matthew94 » Mon, 23. Mar 20, 01:02

I really don't care much about new ships. Most of them time they just blend together and their function is all that really separates them.

I'd rather have a small number of well designed ships that each perform a function than a bunch of variants just for the sake of variety.

The only new ships I would want would be new classes, like an M2 equivalent i.e. an XL destroyer like the Xenon I.

DaMuncha
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Re: What Foundations needs to add as Egosoft moves forwards or consider for their next installment

Post by DaMuncha » Mon, 23. Mar 20, 23:36

ALL of the above
Just... another... bug.

Lychee
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Re: What Foundations needs to add as Egosoft moves forwards or consider for their next installment

Post by Lychee » Tue, 24. Mar 20, 00:57

DaMuncha wrote:
Mon, 23. Mar 20, 23:36
ALL of the above
You can vote for multiple choices at the same time.

ignis_alas
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Re: What Foundations needs to add as Egosoft moves forwards or consider for their next installment

Post by ignis_alas » Tue, 24. Mar 20, 19:08

buy Starbase developers, use Starbase engine
x series becomes mainly singlepayer, empire building, vr cinematic mission, co op with friends, focused on the npc populated dinamic Universe (now with planets from Starbase engine), modular ships (courtesy of the voxel engine with 1 cm voxel from Starbase engine) but still clearly race specific ships, this would also mean complete interiors and 'manable' turrets.
Starbase continues to be the mmo space game with only players, no npc factions or characters. only online chaos, with limit size on ships

Lychee
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Re: What Foundations needs to add as Egosoft moves forwards or consider for their next installment

Post by Lychee » Fri, 7. May 21, 21:40

After many many months and coming back after the CoH DLC, it is really nice to se that some of the items on this list are confirmed on the way, or already implemented, mainly the ship variety/tied into factions and supposed pirate dlc leak. Kudos Egosoft!

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