Crystal mining is bugged

[Fishille]

You know I actually appreciated the de-incentivizing Crystal hunting. I just started a new vanilla play through and avoided crystal farming, I’ve actually progressed faster and have had more fun this play start.

[Slashman]

I was talking about these other folks who won't use mods but still want to actively exploit a known imbalance in the game mechanics.

At the end of the day no one LIKES nerfs...but sometimes they are necessary to normalize gameplay. And that is ultimately up to the developers. I don't have numbers or statistics on how often this particular activity was being done, but I'm guessing that the developers did and noticed it was being done to the exclusion of other valid early game activities. They took steps to remedy that. I suspect that any step they took, which would have sufficiently stopped it being abused, would have equally negative repercussions from the players who were leaning on it for what it provided.

Why are crystals seen as imbalanced? (How can they be in a single player game ?)

I played crystal mining in Split Vendetta for 200 hours and and ended with a few Ms, bare bones dockable PHQ and cash on hand Cr 36m, net worth maybe about Cr 100m.

I played "traditionally" in Cradle of Humanity as a fresh Terran start for 200 hours and ignored crystals, plot and stations completely and have over Cr300m cash on hand from salvage and trading Adv Sats plus a dozen capped assorted M raiders and three capped marauder DDs, couple of L freighters and nearly a dozen M freighters and miners not to mention nearly a dozen S scouts. I know a lot of people would have a lot more than that after 200hrs and its because I goof around and role play and please myself but even so that is more than 4 times what I got from crystals.

Crystal mining was not overpowered as far as I was aware, it was slim pickings. I dont understand this idea that crystals were some kind of supercheat.

Was there an exploit? I didnt use one. I think the idea that crystals were overpowered is completely bogus.

If there was an egregious exploit then OK fix the exploit, dont wreck the whole mechanic.

My question is why you think that something CANNOT be imbalanced in a single player game? That whole premise doesn't make sense. If they made the Argon Centaur to have 100 times its normal hull and shields and to mount destroyer weapons and to be faster than the Split equivalent and it cost the same as it does right now would that be OK? I mean everybody would just use that one ship right? Would that be acceptable to you? Balance tweaks are made in single player games all the time. Its not some new concept that never was done before.

I doubt the developers would go to the trouble of changing a whole mechanic if there wasn't some indication that it wasn't working how they envisioned it should or was an exploit. Now if they decide that the change was a mistake and tweak it or change it back to something resembling the original version, I won't complain. It is their game to make as they see fit.

[Submarine]

Why are crystals seen as imbalanced? (How can they be in a single player game ?)

...

Crystal mining was not overpowered as far as I was aware, it was slim pickings. I dont understand this idea that crystals were some kind of supercheat.

Was there an exploit? I didnt use one. I think the idea that crystals were overpowered is completely bogus.

If there was an egregious exploit then OK fix the exploit, dont wreck the whole mechanic.

My question is why you think that something CANNOT be imbalanced in a single player game? That whole premise doesn't make sense. If they made the Argon Centaur to have 100 times its normal hull and shields and to mount destroyer weapons and to be faster than the Split equivalent and it cost the same as it does right now would that be OK? I mean everybody would just use that one ship right? Would that be acceptable to you? Balance tweaks are made in single player games all the time. Its not some new concept that never was done before.

I doubt the developers would go to the trouble of changing a whole mechanic if there wasn't some indication that it wasn't working how they envisioned it should or was an exploit. Now if they decide that the change was a mistake and tweak it or change it back to something resembling the original version, I won't complain. It is their game to make as they see fit.

The Centaur argument you describe is basically what the player HQ, teleportation and ship modifications do, the whole game has a set of big shiney player centered cheats in the middle of it creating an imbalance of power, built into the game as part of the fantasy megalomanic vanity gameplay SP allows. Its the players choice how to indulge themselves using the imbalances.

In that context the question of what is imbalanced resolves around whether a mechanic breaks the suspension of disbelief sufficiently to undermine the impulse to play created by the conditionality of the rest of the sim.

By this metric the crystals were previously no more imbalanced than the rest of the game. One thing which absolutely does break the sim is magic self nerfing crystals which change colour on the fly, before your eyes, apparently evincing insane crystal hate and self loathing sentiment from the devs.

Joking aside, since crystals were not imbalanced and the new implementation is sim breaking, it is best viewed as bugged, as per the title of the thread.

The bug apparently relates to the distribution calculation for spawning and it is short circuiting, becoming active in inappropriate circumstances causing detectable changes in the local environment. The balance of player outcomes would also seem to be broken as well.

[Slashman]

The Centaur argument you describe is basically what the player HQ, teleportation and ship modifications do, the whole game has a set of big shiney player centered cheats in the middle of it creating an imbalance of power, built into the game as part of the fantasy megalomanic vanity gameplay SP allows. Its the players choice how to indulge themselves using the imbalances.

I must be missing some PHQ functions...you can fly that around and never bother with any other ship? And like...right from the beginning of the game? Ship modifications gives you 100 times the shield and hull value of the original ship?

Joking aside, since crystals were not imbalanced and the new implementation is sim breaking, it is best viewed as bugged, as per the title of the thread.

The bug apparently relates to the distribution calculation for spawning and it is short circuiting, becoming active in inappropriate circumstances causing detectable changes in the local environment. The balance of player outcomes would also seem to be broken as well.

So the devs have since said that crystals were not imbalanced? Can you point me to where that post is and maybe explain why they made a change like that in the first place if the post itself doesn't explain it of course?

[spocksbrainrocks]

Damn, I wish I had read this a few hours ago. I just wasted 3 hours out of my life
looking for crystals.

When was this nerfed? Cradle of Humanity?

[xant]

Damn, I wish I had read this a few hours ago. I just wasted 3 hours out of my life
looking for crystals.

When was this nerfed? Cradle of Humanity?

When? With 3.0 I think, here's the change from the patch notes: "Improved crystal collection balancing by limiting number of valuable crystals on asteroids."