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With the latest COH Patch M Class Plasma Turrets on behaviours:
"Attack all Enemys"
"Defend"
"Attack Fighters"
Do not engage enemy fighter S Class vessels as they did previously. Behaviour "Attack my current Target" still works.

This applys to player controlled Ships; AI Controlled Ships do not suffer from this problem

This has been explained before. Plasma turrets are too slow (rotation and bullet speed combination) to track and hit small, agile and crossing targets and so they will now only try to engage when they calculate that thay might have a chance of a hit. This may reduce collateral damage and unwanted rep-loss incidents. In practice plasma turrets are not good anti-fighter/drone choices. Incoming directly head-on approach targets at range might be engaged successfully.

Moving from X Rebirth Tech Sp to X4 main gameplay forum.

Understandable explanation and i would fully agree on that if i wouldnt have seen AI controlled M Class ships equipped with m class plasma turrets shooting everything and everyone in range regardless of possible collateral damage or unwanted rep-loss and if i, as a player, take over the pilot seat the previously called turrets turn into mean looking flowerpots

AI shooting AI mostly does not reduce the players reputation.
If you as the player contolling the ship and shoot AI you will loose reputation.
Thats why the turrets will cease fire when you take over the pilot seat

Turrets will still shoot when on "attack my current target" behaviour if the player takes command, they still can and will fire, so there will always be a chance them hitting "something" even if its not the original target

Yes, that is because on 'attack my current target' with the player as pilot (and often when not too), it is the player that is effectively selecting the target for the turret to engage (regardless of consequences) and not the turret AI.

Hello, I made an account just to post on this issue.

As I feared, the responses are rather predictable. The point of this thread and raising this issue is not to ask for peoples opinions on M plasma turret usage. Basically everyone (here and on discord) give the "plasmas can't hit smalls" response that doesn't actually address the issue. The fact they might have issues hitting their targets does not justify them not tracking or reacting to smalls at all. I have tested them extensively, and they will not track or fire on small hostile ships even if they are completely still for extended periods of time (0 m/s completely still). If a player doesn't want them to attack smalls, that's why disable turret and other turret mode toggles are for! Also, aside from conjecture, nobody has been able to positively confirm if this issue is an actually intended feature by devs, an oversight or a bug.

The arguments against even having the option of them engaging smalls are irrelevant and invalid in multiple ways:

First: Every single M turret type will miss a VAST number of their shots on small targets. This applies even to beams, although that seems to be caused mostly by the aiming system going for the center of the aiming box, which often will be empty. Plasmas CAN and DO hit smalls by the way, as I have noticed in many encounters where I use "attack my target" or watch as my NPC pilots engages enemies (the plasmas work fine when the AI pilot takes over): a few balls will hit now and then and that's still massive damage when they do hit. The tendency of NPC pilots to do straight kamikaze-type attack runs will inevitably lead to them getting hit by a few shots. But to re-iterate, subjective opinion on relative effectiveness here is a secondary concern at best.

Second: "Plasmas will miss and hit stations and friendlies and cause headaches" again, so will every other M turret in copious amounts. So this is not a particularly useful counter argument either.

"Attack my current target" is not a solution, as I (and many others) will prefer to fly a turret based ship in other defense modes, having them automatically shoot targets. Many times you will be engaging a different target with main guns and won't have the freedom of targeting the small at that moment. Also, AMCT mode is VERY stupid and because it force-fires when there is not even a theoretical chance of hitting. I have noticed it will try to fire at enemies up to 15KM away, which is not useful in any way.

The point of all this (TL;DR) is: There is no justification for plasmas being hardcoded to completely ignore and not even TRY to track or fire at smaller ships. My humblest suggestion is that those who want it to happen should have the option to have plasmas engage small targets in turret modes like "attack all enemies". Otherwise something like a plasma Jian is a bother to use, and the same for a capital ship with lots of M plasmas. If you don't want them to fire at smalls, then you always have the option of toggling them off OR just setting the plasmas to attack capitals ect.

Thanks for your time

Silly Monkie wrote: ↑
Tue, 30. Mar 21, 02:19
Hello, I made an account just to post on this issue.

As I feared, the responses are rather predictable. The point of this thread and raising this issue is not to ask for peoples opinions on M plasma turret usage. Basically everyone (here and on discord) give the "plasmas can't hit smalls" response that doesn't actually address the issue. The fact they might have issues hitting their targets does not justify them not tracking or reacting to smalls at all. I have tested them extensively, and they will not track or fire on small hostile ships even if they are completely still for extended periods of time (0 m/s completely still). If a player doesn't want them to attack smalls, that's why disable turret and other turret mode toggles are for! Also, aside from conjecture, nobody has been able to positively confirm if this issue is an actually intended feature by devs, an oversight or a bug.

The arguments against even having the option of them engaging smalls are irrelevant and invalid in multiple ways:

First: Every single M turret type will miss a VAST number of their shots on small targets. This applies even to beams, although that seems to be caused mostly by the aiming system going for the center of the aiming box, which often will be empty. Plasmas CAN and DO hit smalls by the way, as I have noticed in many encounters where I use "attack my target" or watch as my NPC pilots engages enemies (the plasmas work fine when the AI pilot takes over): a few balls will hit now and then and that's still massive damage when they do hit. The tendency of NPC pilots to do straight kamikaze-type attack runs will inevitably lead to them getting hit by a few shots. But to re-iterate, subjective opinion on relative effectiveness here is a secondary concern at best.

Second: "Plasmas will miss and hit stations and friendlies and cause headaches" again, so will every other M turret in copious amounts. So this is not a particularly useful counter argument either.

"Attack my current target" is not a solution, as I (and many others) will prefer to fly a turret based ship in other defense modes, having them automatically shoot targets. Many times you will be engaging a different target with main guns and won't have the freedom of targeting the small at that moment. Also, AMCT mode is VERY stupid and because it force-fires when there is not even a theoretical chance of hitting. I have noticed it will try to fire at enemies up to 15KM away, which is not useful in any way.

The point of all this (TL;DR) is: There is no justification for plasmas being hardcoded to completely ignore and not even TRY to track or fire at smaller ships. My humblest suggestion is that those who want it to happen should have the option to have plasmas engage small targets in turret modes like "attack all enemies". Otherwise something like a plasma Jian is a bother to use, and the same for a capital ship with lots of M plasmas. If you don't want them to fire at smalls, then you always have the option of toggling them off OR just setting the plasmas to attack capitals ect.

Thanks for your time

The thing is, it isn't even just the awful tracking speed of plasma turrets, its also the completely useless projectile speed. Yes, other turrets will miss alot especially if you're not buying Argon (shop smart, shop S-Mart), but they will still occasionally hit the passing fighter. I'd argue that Argon M Pulse are the only M turrets that are even remotely useful whatsoever for actually killing S targets with on any ship at all. Literally the only thing an S class ship has to do to dodge a plasma shot is just make a simple small course correction even if the plasma turret were to get a lucky track and lead on it and fire off an "accurate" shot, because by the time that plasma shot even gets there the S pilot had at least 5 or 6 seconds to figure out it was on a collision course with that plasma shot and just, I dunno, move.

Due to their longer range it is possible they are trying to track another target, and not the one that is stationary. It could also be that the turret is looking for targets and has not yet detected the stationary craft as a valid target.

People really should not be using M plasma turrets to try and hit S and M ships. This is outside their intended use case and any hits they might potentially land in this use will almost entirely be down to luck. They are intended for attacking L, XL and stations and even then they might still miss.

This is a lot like asking why an Iowa-class Battleship didn't use its 16 inch main battery at part of its anti-aircraft defense. It's not the weapon for the job. Plasma turrets are all but completely useless against small, fast moving targets. The turret AI is smart enough (weird, I know) to recognize that firing at something it can't hit is a waste of time and power when there may be larger targets to fire at. I'll admit that they perhaps ought to fire if the target is completely stationary, but that may be difficult coding-wise to implement.

Use Beams on turrets, Use plasma on s/m Bombers. Use the right tool for the right Job.

I think we can all agree on that plasma turrets are not the best suited weapon for anti-fighter duty, most of us are experienced players that do understand the do´s and donts of this game.
Thing is: AI uses them (regarding the turret behaviour), me, as a player kinda can use em (attack by current target behaviour only) but not the way AI does.
Question is: why i, as a player, am limited regarding that?

Beams suck in my opinion, Terran pulse turrets are actually really good though. I tend to use a mix of terran bolt/pulse atm, the bolt keeps their shields down and the pulse kills fighters in 1-2 hits and is long range.

Please, I need to clear-up something that is annoying me. This thread is not about anyone's opinions on viability of M plasma turrets for specific combat scenarios. Nor is it asking for what turrets you might personally use or recommend. I humbly ask that stop posting your opinions on the effectiveness in this particular thread, as they only serve to derail the thread from the actual issue. I only addressed the raised issues because everyone seems fixated on that aspect, possibly not understanding the point of this thread.

The entire point, and the feature that is under examination is that M plasma turrets uniquely out of all turrets completely ignore small targets in any other turret mode than "attack my target"* in a ship piloted by the player (the turrets will fire on smalls if piloted by AI pilot!). The issue is NOT that they fail to keep up with tracking and therefore do not fire. No, the turrets completely freeze in place and do not even attempt to track or fire even if the target is completely still. What we are arguing is that this hard-coded complete ignorance of small targets be removed, allowing players who wish for them to engage smalls to do so. The problem may in fact be a bug or an overlooked feature. Again personal opinion on relative effectiveness of this is irrelevant. What matters is that the option should be there, a player who sets turrets to "attack all targets" should have them actually attack all targets. If you want them to only shoot larger targets, then you have modes for it. So again, the point is to just give players the control to decide for themselves, like with every other turret.

*which as I explained in my earlier post is not a solution to the problem

So you are basically asking for a "safeties off" switch? Just track & shoot no matter what?

The turret code came a long way since release - they have now also code in place that checks friendly target hit probability (being it your tail fin or the station of an allied faction) which ultimately denies a turret form shooting. Not sure if there is something in place to disable tracking altogether (like a "don't even try" result given by the code) - didn't observe that so far. But then again I barely use M plasma.

Silly Monkie wrote: ↑
Tue, 30. Mar 21, 14:02
Again personal opinion on relative effectiveness of this is irrelevant. What matters is that the option should be

I completely disagree. Sound military thinking is part of the game since it's also a military simulator. A real life drone with anti-tank weapons MUST be coded to not engage air targets. You dont allow it just because it can do it. It has a purpose and this is what makes the game more interesting. We cant complain on lack of AI and then complain that the AI doesnt allow stupid things. Plasma is like an anti-tank gun. You can use it in direct fire against soft targets and waste time trying to hit them while you get hammered by other enemies, but an AI turret must be more clever than that.

As such, the current stance is fine. And I sure hope it's not a "good" bug.

jmrc wrote: ↑
Thu, 1. Apr 21, 10:35

Silly Monkie wrote: ↑
Tue, 30. Mar 21, 14:02
Again personal opinion on relative effectiveness of this is irrelevant. What matters is that the option should be
I completely disagree. Sound military thinking is part of the game since it's also a military simulator. A real life drone with anti-tank weapons MUST be coded to not engage air targets. You dont allow it just because it can do it. It has a purpose and this is what makes the game more interesting. We cant complain on lack of AI and then complain that the AI doesnt allow stupid things. Plasma is like an anti-tank gun. You can use it in direct fire against soft targets and waste time trying to hit them while you get hammered by other enemies, but an AI turret must be more clever than that.

As such, the current stance is fine. And I sure hope it's not a "good" bug.

Drawing yet another imaginative yet erroneous parallel (I have seen many in this thread) does not in any way serve to counter giving players the option to use them if they so desire. Again, people focusing on plasma issues is somewhat risible, as the argued issues are common to essentially all turrets - but I have already exhaustively addressed this. Just because you feel like they should not be used in such a manner does not mean that there aren't many out there who would very much appreciate the possibility. I have already been messaged on discord by people echoing this sentiment. Also, I feel is it rather shortsighted to argue for this hardcoded lock, considering how many different types of ships and different scenarios those M plasmas might be used in. Again, this M plasma lockout only applies to the ship the player is currently piloting anyway and won't effect AI pilots, as they will use M plasma in all defensive modes quite normally. So the only thing is left is a scenario where a player is basically either too green or too lazy to switch those plasmas to "attack capital ships" or whatever they wish, which is not really a good reason to single out this one type of turret from being able to be used like all the other types. I feel like managing turret modes is a central part of the flying experience for any ship that has them, and blocking one single turret type from working like all the rest is not logical.

Frankly I am disappointed in how this culture of negativity to any changes to the game bog down simple changes and improvements like this change would bring

While I do agree there is some resistance to change, there's no evidence the operation and targeting of the turrets isn't working as intended, and is therefore open to discussion. The reason it currently is the way it is had been explained, so the view that there needn't be an option to change this is as valid as the view that there should be. Implementing such options isn't as easy or as logical as flipping a switch.

Its a game, this is not in any way or form a military simulation but a space sim, if i want to shoot at drones with my asgard the game doest not block me off doing that, ai uses m plasma turrets against s fighters, the player cant, in previous version of the game this did work, it doesnt anymore, if the way its implemented is intentionaly fine by me. Since i didnt read anything regarding turret behaviour in the patch notes i do assume this is a bug.

Silly Monkie wrote: ↑
Thu, 1. Apr 21, 18:45
Drawing yet another imaginative yet erroneous parallel (I have seen many in this thread) does not in any way serve to counter giving players the option to use them if they so desire. I feel like managing turret modes is a central part of the flying experience for any ship that has them, and blocking one single turret type from working like all the rest is not logical.

What's annoying is that you don't actually want to hear different opinion or reasoning. You simply want others to agree with you. In that case take up the flag, I don't care less. Oh, and BTW I want also want to be able to configure my turrets to attack my own units, since after all I want to use them as I desire... Se ya.

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M Class Plasma Turrets do not engage S-Class Fighter

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Re: M Class Plasma Turrets do not engage S-Class Fighter

Re: M Class Plasma Turrets do not engage S-Class Fighter

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Re: M Class Plasma Turrets do not engage S-Class Fighter

Re: M Class Plasma Turrets do not engage S-Class Fighter

Re: M Class Plasma Turrets do not engage S-Class Fighter