Make Xenons great again

[Raevyan]

Seriously devs need to fix Xenon‘s ASAP. They really f‘ed the OOS balancing in the latest 4.0 beta which then went live. Additionally the Xenons also seem to suffer from the mining changes. They are starving for resources. On top of that, they sent their mining ships through the whole galaxy through faction territory and get killed.

My game has almost no xenons left. If I wouldn’t built some admin modules in certain sectors to either prevent factions from invading Xenon space or to make the sector stay xenon, there wouldn’t be any of them left in the game. The next thing is, 2 terraforming planets are in Xenon space and the yaki plot asks for freeing those xenon sectors. So we have to eliminate the almost all xenons from the map. We need a fix for Xenons OOS combat ability and you also need to revive them in existing games where almost none are left.

[Ezarkal]

I agree.
In all the games I did so far, the most they ever did was blow up HAT's trade station... and surprisingly, MIN's wharf.

In my current playthrough, the only reason why they are still alive seems to be that all factions are starved of advances electronics (which seems to have heavily reduced all conflicts in the game). XEN are currently doing a small tentative push in a couple of FRF sectors, but that seems to be all they can manage. I would expect them to go ham everywhere while all the faction's pants are down. I mean, at least let 'em take over a couple of sectors.

[LandogarX4]

There have been dozens of threads prior to 4.0 where players asked for Xenon to be turned into a credible threat, or at least to give the player the choice for it via plots etc.

Egosoft has completely ignored all those requests, and as you point out, instead implemented changes that severely weaken the already impotent Xenon forces. Xenon are and have been a non-factor in the game and I fear it will stay this way. So all you can do as a player is to fight some of the factions, which tend to have miniscule fleets (HOP being the only exception) that they use in the most retarded way possible (the faction AI hasn't improved one bit either). No challenges in this game, alas.

[sh1pman]

So all you can do as a player is to fight some of the factions, which tend to have miniscule fleets (HOP being the only exception) that they use in the most retarded way possible (the faction AI hasn't improved one bit either).

You know what the dumbest thing is? AI factions use “Defence” group to form all their fleets. Turns out, this order is completely broken and doesn’t work OOS. Subordinates don’t attack with commander and don’t respond to attacks on them or their leader. They only follow the leader mindlessly, as a dead weight. So, even in a huge HOP fleet only the leader actually deals damage. This limits the fleet firepower to a tiny fraction of what it should be. No idea if it affects the Xenon, as I can’t see their fleet group orders, but it might.

[Imperial Good]

The reason Xenon are weak is because TER proactively tries to exterminate them all and unlike TEL and ARG/ANT, TER owns very powerful ships. During the 4.00 beta a large number of people were complaining that XEN were exterminating everyone, as there was no TER to stop them.

Since XEN use 4 star odd pilots, they mine Silicon pretty efficiently. As such XEN is not that resource starved.

[Malchar]

The reason Xenon are weak is because TER proactively tries to exterminate them all.

I have to disagree. I made several games in V4.00 without COH, just with vanilla + split. Xenons were amorph and pathetic and terrans have nothing to do with this, because they dont existed in theses games.

Only Atiya s xenons had some activities. As a coincidence it is, in the old world, the only place where xenons have a bit to mine.

At v4.00 Xenons have a structural problem and TER is not responsible for that.

[zergline117s]

New game, 7 hours, ANT already took Atiya's Misfortune. It usually Intervention Crops kill every living Xenon ship, then other faction set first Def post. After this, Xenon has 0 fight back, they like, lost their all XL ships. I have to poke Argon and ANT vs TER war to save Xenon in every new game. I rarely see I, but I know K has seriously bad design. K even cannot take down an unguarded Tokyo, Xenon needs its Q back, and stop sending S to suicide.

[YellowBelllyBlackSnake]

OOS combat seems to be the main issue right now. In my current game I've observed Ks being destroyed OOS by single argon destreyers; which don't appear to take any damage from the K. Other issues I've noticed are:

• Ks tend to easily lose their large turrets, which may be caused by them not being fully outfitted with their medium shield gens.

• Lack of small and medium anti-ship weapons means that their s/m ships can't take out L and XL targets, and they also have trouble destroying stations. This is especially a problem with constructions ships, which can basically build in Xenon space care free (unless a K turns up)

• They have no real counter to heavy fighters and Ps struggle against frigates.

• Xenon defence stations feel a bit under-gunned against large ships and IS the large turrets appear to have poor fire arcs.

[Karvat]

And ESPECIALLY, it can't be that the Xenon are so weak in general when it's about expanding their territories and ships but at the same time a single power plant has more defence modules than a defence platform, and a single defence platform can wipe out an entire fleet of a Zeus, 10 Odysseus and an Atlas without taking any damage!!!

[NightmareNight91]

Xenon are def screwed by OOS battles. In 3.0 I needed a large fleet of destroyers to win a battle OOS against xenon K and I. In 4.0, 6 phoenix (all captured at game start) and a syn (free) is enough to hold back ANY xenon that push through. Zyarth has never had it so easy in all my games since the split dlc arrived.

[Raptor34]

Otoh with the apparent hull repair nerfs, I no longer need to babysit Xenon wharves/shipyards against ZYA Rattlesnakes.
Having posted satellites and gate defense fleets, it does seem that something is wrong, I think the main problem might be them sending out their miners? But its hard to tell since their own sectors are extremely rich. But I'll note that it does seem that the most aggressive Xenons are the ones without any sectors close by with resources. Close to 100% of my defense losses comes from Fires of Defeat. Think I even loss a Honshou that was caught out there, though I wasn't defending directly on the gate since I wanted them to **** with the Split.
For starters having them maintain a quota of econ ships at home would be a start.

Actually thinking back on it, the early Xenon was pushing rather aggressively until I intervened. Wonder if keeping them bottled up is starving them somehow. This playthrough iirc the only Xenon sector to not expand fast is the one in Scale Plate Green, the rest I started putting forces at gates.
Oh, and Asgards being indestructible OOS is not helping.

[mr.WHO]

I agree something is really broken for Xenons in OOS - I seen Teladi Defence platform destroying Xenon I along with 5 Xenon K in OOS and loosing only half of health.
Xenon S and M ships also struggle in OOS unless they have 3 to 1 advantage - multiple times I seen several Argon fighters taking out dozen of Xenon fighters.


This is broken to such point that I no longer treat Xenons as a danger in OOS
They build OK and have sizable force, yet when they are on attack, they are executed by inferior force every time, to the point it's sad to look at.

It doesn't help that now, poor Xenons have to also deal with wild Asgard and Tokyo flying to their domain and braking random things

[slober]

90% of problem is L turrets behaviour. They MUST shoot to Hull. Instead we have L beam what disarm Xenons everywhere.


Other 10% some settings for XEN.

I think it would be smart and right to fight from defence. I mean. In any case in any situation Xenons must have at least 2-3 XEN K next to each their station. 1 XEN I + 3 XEN K next to each gate.
And only extra ships they can send to other sectors. We have a lot of situation when XEN shipyard is under attack and full of recourses... but all XEN XL ships in near by sector do nothing.

[Fenris321]

I watched (over time of course) Antigone just completely wipe out any Xenon resistance in Atiya's Misfortune I. That sector starts out being owned by the Xenon and had a shipyard, a wharf, two defense stations, and a couple energy stations as well. That sector has 459 million ore, and the neighboring sector (also owned by the Xenon) has 334 million silicon. So basically no reason for the Xenon to not be able to build a massive fleet. The Antigone just simply sent in multiple construction ships, which just simply ignored the Xenon fighters attacking them and built stations. I saw one die to a K, but mostly the fighters just killed themselves on the construction ships. Some time later the Antigone had multiple stations and the Xenon fighters just suicided against those. When the Xenon finally got around to using a couple Ks to go in and attack the stations a much larger Argon fleet showed up and just wiped them out.

From what I've seen in this playthrough, the Xenon do not defend their owned sectors with anything more than a token force. I get that a lot of people might not want a hyper aggressive Xenon in the game, but when an owned sector is being attacked that's the time to get aggressive. They had plenty of miners and power distribution units in that sector at one time, I just think it would have made sense for them to start building some capital ships as soon as stations started going up in their territory. Then again, maybe I just missed those fights and they simply got wiped out in OOS combat.

[mr.WHO]

From what I've seen in this playthrough, the Xenon do not defend their owned sectors with anything more than a token force. I get that a lot of people might not want a hyper aggressive Xenon in the game, but when an owned sector is being attacked that's the time to get aggressive. They had plenty of miners and power distribution units in that sector at one time, I just think it would have made sense for them to start building some capital ships as soon as stations started going up in their territory. Then again, maybe I just missed those fights and they simply got wiped out in OOS combat.

In my game, Xenons took Northern Paranid sectors days ago (game time) yet they still can't wipe out a few production stations left in the area - they send a few fighters and corvettes from time to time and odd Xenon K just to die to petty Ore refinery station.

[slober]

From what I've seen in this playthrough, the Xenon do not defend their owned sectors with anything more than a token force. I get that a lot of people might not want a hyper aggressive Xenon in the game, but when an owned sector is being attacked that's the time to get aggressive. They had plenty of miners and power distribution units in that sector at one time, I just think it would have made sense for them to start building some capital ships as soon as stations started going up in their territory. Then again, maybe I just missed those fights and they simply got wiped out in OOS combat.

In my game, Xenons took Northern Paranid sectors days ago (game time) yet they still can't wipe out a few production stations left in the area - they send a few fighters and corvettes from time to time and odd Xenon K just to die to petty Ore refinery station.

Xenons are able to destroy Defend stations. And they can build their DefStation in the sector BUT!
Xenons are not able to destroy any factory. That is why some times some players have situation when sector full of factories but sector doesn't have the owner.
That is why on the Map it looks like Xenons did something but they don't for real And they are not able to do it. Everything because of L Beam.

You can check by yourself or just check the videos below (unfortunately how I understand devs don't want to touch(fix) turrets that is why I don't know when it will be fixed)
https://youtu.be/opxQhIE0qUg. (DefStation and Factory under attack of XEN Ks) - this is explanation why XEN some times can change colour of sector.
https://youtu.be/X4AUjlMnJRc. (2 factories under attack of 2 XEN Ks) - it shows why XEN are not able to take any sector for real.

[Raptor34]

From what I've seen in this playthrough, the Xenon do not defend their owned sectors with anything more than a token force. I get that a lot of people might not want a hyper aggressive Xenon in the game, but when an owned sector is being attacked that's the time to get aggressive. They had plenty of miners and power distribution units in that sector at one time, I just think it would have made sense for them to start building some capital ships as soon as stations started going up in their territory. Then again, maybe I just missed those fights and they simply got wiped out in OOS combat.

I think its a jobs quota problem. They aren't fairly distributed.
Case in point Emperor's Pride has around 8 or so Ks. Scale Plate region probably has 12+ Ks while the Matrixes next to Fires of Defeat has 6 or so Ks. And tons of S/M each.
Every other Xenon pocket otoh has 0-2Ks.

[mr.WHO]

Xenons are able to destroy Defend stations. And they can build their DefStation in the sector BUT!
Xenons are not able to destroy any factory. That is why some times some players have situation when sector full of factories but sector doesn't have the owner.
That is why on the Map it looks like Xenons did something but they don't for real And they are not able to do it. Everything because of L Beam.

You can check by yourself or just check the videos below (unfortunately how I understand devs don't want to touch(fix) turrets that is why I don't know when it will be fixed)
https://youtu.be/opxQhIE0qUg. (DefStation and Factory under attack of XEN Ks) - this is explanation why XEN some times can change colour of sector.
https://youtu.be/X4AUjlMnJRc. (2 factories under attack of 2 XEN Ks) - it shows why XEN are not able to take any sector for real.

That could be slightly fixed by introducing proper destroyer (with main batteries) for Xenons. Both K and I inherent weakness is they reliance on fragile turrets.

[Raptor34]

Xenons are able to destroy Defend stations. And they can build their DefStation in the sector BUT!
Xenons are not able to destroy any factory. That is why some times some players have situation when sector full of factories but sector doesn't have the owner.
That is why on the Map it looks like Xenons did something but they don't for real And they are not able to do it. Everything because of L Beam.

You can check by yourself or just check the videos below (unfortunately how I understand devs don't want to touch(fix) turrets that is why I don't know when it will be fixed)
https://youtu.be/opxQhIE0qUg. (DefStation and Factory under attack of XEN Ks) - this is explanation why XEN some times can change colour of sector.
https://youtu.be/X4AUjlMnJRc. (2 factories under attack of 2 XEN Ks) - it shows why XEN are not able to take any sector for real.

That could be slightly fixed by introducing proper destroyer (with main batteries) for Xenons. Both K and I inherent weakness is they reliance on fragile turrets.

Main batteries could be destroyed too though. But not OOS it seems.

[slober]

Xenons are able to destroy Defend stations. And they can build their DefStation in the sector BUT!
Xenons are not able to destroy any factory. That is why some times some players have situation when sector full of factories but sector doesn't have the owner.
That is why on the Map it looks like Xenons did something but they don't for real And they are not able to do it. Everything because of L Beam.

You can check by yourself or just check the videos below (unfortunately how I understand devs don't want to touch(fix) turrets that is why I don't know when it will be fixed)
https://youtu.be/opxQhIE0qUg. (DefStation and Factory under attack of XEN Ks) - this is explanation why XEN some times can change colour of sector.
https://youtu.be/X4AUjlMnJRc. (2 factories under attack of 2 XEN Ks) - it shows why XEN are not able to take any sector for real.

That could be slightly fixed by introducing proper destroyer (with main batteries) for Xenons. Both K and I inherent weakness is they reliance on fragile turrets.

It is true. It is very easy target for destroyer with main batteries. And it is next BUG
All faction shipyards and Wharfs can be easily destroyed by any 1 destroyer. Because of L beam turrets
That is why some players complain that Profit Centre Alpha doesn't have some common stations. They where destroyed by accident by 1 FAF Rattlesnake