Station placement controls

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athelred
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu, 1. Jan 04, 23:07
x3

Station placement controls

Post by athelred » Wed, 5. May 21, 12:31

I have been playing X4 again with the release of 4.0, and in general I find things to be much improved over the state when it released. There are still a few things that need love. The autopilot AI can get in some of the most interesting situations, I end up inside of station geometry on a regular basis, for example.

Right now I have progressed to the place in my current game where I am building stations to set up production chains for profit and ship production, and have run into some real frustrations around station plot and component placing. As far as I can tell, and please correct me If I am wrong, I would love to be wrong, the only way to interact with these systems is via mouse control. There are no keyboard shortcuts to fine tune station plot or component placement. What you are left with is trying to use a 2d mouse to place a 3d object in a a 2d projection of a 3d space. This is a frustrating experience.

To give an example, I am setting up several stations in a single system. In this case I am setting up microfacs instead of a single megafac to facilitate actually getting enough crew in a reasonable amount of time, and to allow me to scale better in different sectors. Each microfac produces one product. Obviously it make sense for individual microfacs to be located near to each other based on what they produce and require. The problem I have run into is strange. When I placed my first station it was on the plane of the ecliptic, and that was good. When I went t to place my second station I expected it to also be on that plane, but for some reason it started above my first plot. I could not get it to lock to the same plane as the first station, and the controls were just not good enough for me to position it precisely.

Now from a functionality stand point it does not matter if the plots are lined up. Close enough is in fact close enough here, but from an aesthetic stand point it just bugs me not to be able to line up and properly lay out the plots. With station building, it is much more relevant. We want to pack as much as possible in our plots, and getting the initial components placed in a precise location can be a nightmare.

It is just a frustration piled on top of many frustrations, that damages the enjoyment of the game. I want to play the game not fight the UI.

Am I missing something? Is there a way to place components and plots more precisely?

paraskous
Posts: 585
Joined: Wed, 25. Apr 07, 13:42
x4

Re: Station placement controls

Post by paraskous » Wed, 5. May 21, 17:09

Plot placement? Move around on the plane x/y by dragging around. For z axis tilt the map 90°and drag the plot up and down.

Edit leave some place between stations for manouvering ships.

Waltz99
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu, 6. Dec 18, 23:03
x4

Re: Station placement controls

Post by Waltz99 » Wed, 5. May 21, 17:24

athelred wrote:
Wed, 5. May 21, 12:31
The autopilot AI can get in some of the most interesting situations, I end up inside of station geometry on a regular basis
its not only the IA
I have situations where I just scan data leaks and somehow get sucked into the station. Its a weird thing.

athelred
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu, 1. Jan 04, 23:07
x3

Re: Station placement controls

Post by athelred » Thu, 6. May 21, 10:51

paraskous wrote:
Wed, 5. May 21, 17:09
Plot placement? Move around on the plane x/y by dragging around. For z axis tilt the map 90°and drag the plot up and down.

Edit leave some place between stations for manouvering ships.
I mean, yes you are correct. Like I said close enough is really close enough for game play purposes, but it is a frustration point where there does not really need to be a frustration point. Getting things exactly aligned is almost impossible using these controls.

What makes it worse is that this is already a solved problem. X3 had a better system for this. You could use the keyboard to make fine tuning to get things exactly where you wanted them. Heck if I recall you could enter a specific coordinate for the station making lining them up a snap.

If you really must use a mouse only interface (not sure why you would want this), Homeworld, and several other games, provide an example of a decent way to handle it. When you are placing an item it is bound to the x-y plane to start. You then hold a key (shift or control are popular) which locks the x-y coordinates in and allows you to set elevation. when you release the key it goes back to moving only on the x-y coordinates and the z coordinate is fixed. This allows you to position an object in fully 3d space easily using a mouse only. It allows precision with a simple UI element.

I like x4. I have 200 hours in the game. I think it is a good core with a few really messy pain points. AI piloting is one. The UI is another. And don't get me started on station traders refusing to buy the last 1 of some random ware required for building. The goal is to decrease frustration, and increase fun.

Edit:

I went back and tried some more to work with the station placement controls. It is even stranger than I thought. The station placement being invalid is based on the 2d projection not on 3d space. So even if your new plot would be above or below a station, if it overlaps on the current 2d project of 3d space it is listed as invalid. It is really just a mess. I think this has moved from an annoyance to a buggy mess.

Edit 2:

I explored the issue above a bit more, and discovered it only appears to be above the plane of the ecliptic. When you place the station it places it on the plane, but the green placement preview appears to be above the plane, but is actually on the plane, so when it does not appear to be a conflicting placement it actually is. So the red is correct, it just does not look like it.

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Ehli
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue, 10. Apr 18, 18:18
x4

Re: Station placement controls

Post by Ehli » Fri, 7. May 21, 09:05

athelred wrote:
Thu, 6. May 21, 10:51
You then hold a key (shift or control are popular) (...) This allows you to position an object in fully 3d space easily using a mouse only.
:D :P

Sorry, couldn't resist that.

Exellent idea though, this would be a great QoL improvement!

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