Zero NPC station offering mined products

[Jaskan]

i Just noticed there are no mined products for sale in the whole galaxy, i have to get my own miners for all resources. Are other seeing this too.

And how about a rollback tech for software update tech. cause I am now updated to x4 version with broken mining.

Seriously the entire software industry needs to pass a law that says you either sell your product on CD, or provide a tech for users to roll back if they find a broken update that makes the product unusable.

Cause right now in the whole software industry customers are getting the short end of the stick since software became updatable. Weather or not you can use what you purchased is currently down to the wimps of the next update.

A software uppdate mechanism without a rollback mechanism is seriously killing the software industry so much many would gladly return to using what they bought on CD.

[grapedog]

You don't buy mined products like ore or methane from an npc station. You can have miners, yours or NPCs, go and mine for your station, selling you the resources. Or you can purchase tier one products made from mined resources. Or you csn create a resource trading post...

...but you can't buy resources directly from an NPC station.

[Jaskan]

You don't buy mined products like ore or methane from an npc station. You can have miners, yours or NPCs, go and mine for your station, selling you the resources. Or you can purchase tier one products made from mined resources. Or you csn create a resource trading post...

...but you can't buy resources directly from an NPC station.

Thanks a lot for the explanation, i was sure that i could see trade offers for mined resource, maybe am still am Noob then.
But i still mean everything i said about software update and you can take that to the bank

[KextV8]

NPC stations do not sell mines resources because they only have the kind they actually use to make their products. They then sell those products.

NPC miners just sell to whoever has the best price nearby them when their hold fills.

Its not like some older X games where Ore/Silicon etc were products of a station. They are only resources, and generally stations don't sell resources in X4, they sell products.

[Panos]

i Just noticed there are no mined products for sale in the whole galaxy, i have to get my own miners for all resources. Are other seeing this too.

And how about a rollback tech for software update tech. cause I am now updated to x4 version with broken mining.

Seriously the entire software industry needs to pass a law that says you either sell your product on CD, or provide a tech for users to roll back if they find a broken update that makes the product unusable.

Cause right now in the whole software industry customers are getting the short end of the stick since software became updatable. Weather or not you can use what you purchased is currently down to the wimps of the next update.

A software uppdate mechanism without a rollback mechanism is seriously killing the software industry so much many would gladly return to using what they bought on CD.

No you cannot buy mining goods, only refined goods.

AI/NPC miners sell mining goods to your & AI stations if price is right.
Also do not expect to set minimum price and have NPC miners deliver to you for free, they will pick the higher price to make profit.

[al_dude]

The factions do need to actually make money.

If you dive into save file, you can find account balance for each faction. Not sure what happens if a faction runs out of credit completely but account balance does seem to have a great effect on mission reward amount.

[Panos]

The factions do need to actually make money.

If you dive into save file, you can find account balance for each faction. Not sure what happens if a faction runs out of credit completely but account balance does seem to have a great effect on mission reward amount.

Before Jan 2019 patch they run out of money, but not since then. The economy was crashing completely and is the only non simulated part of the economy in the game.

[Ehli]

Don't dismiss the OP that easily - I'm betting he saw the "buying resources" part. You definitely see that one on the map. If all ores are in extremely high demand for every faction then it does signal an/the issue (which there are plenty of threads about)

[Panos]

Don't dismiss the OP that easily - I'm betting he saw the "buying resources" part. You definitely see that one on the map. If all ores are in extremely high demand for every faction then it does signal an/the issue (which there are plenty of threads about)

Why is an issue? The demand is covered really fast within 72 hours even when you do nothing.
The game has fully simulated economy, if ships don't mine and deliver ore it won't magically appear, this is X4 not X3.

[jlehtone]

Why is an issue? The demand is covered really fast within 72 hours even when you do nothing.

IF demand is not covered even when you do nothing, THEN there is an issue.
In "fully simulated" system you can fall into such hole. All hail the Almighty RNG!


Player can now build a resource trade station. NPC will not.

... provide a tech for users to roll back ...

Weather or not you can use what you purchased ...

What we purchase is a license to use. Quite often that is in practice a license to use the latest released version.

Vendor releases version X+1 to replace version X. The X is "broken" and the X+1 fixes those known issues.
Why would vendor support "roll back" to what is known to be broken?

[Panos]

Why is an issue? The demand is covered really fast within 72 hours even when you do nothing.

IF demand is not covered even when you do nothing, THEN there is an issue.
In "fully simulated" system you can fall into such hole. All hail the Almighty RNG!


Player can now build a resource trade station. NPC will not.

... provide a tech for users to roll back ...

Weather or not you can use what you purchased ...

What we purchase is a license to use. Quite often that is in practice a license to use the latest released version.

Vendor releases version X+1 to replace version X. The X is "broken" and the X+1 fixes those known issues.
Why would vendor support "roll back" to what is known to be broken?

NPCs spam stations everywhere especially asteroid zones. What you want is for the game to have 0 demand for the basic income a player has.
People like you have destroyed the game with 4.0 mining changes.

[GCU Grey Area]

Not seeing any particular issues with NPC demand for basic resources in my game. For the most part their stations seem to be getting what they need. If there was an issue it would surely be reflected in the availability of first stage processed wares (refined metals, silicon wafers, etc), however having no difficulty finding trades for such wares at decent prices for my manually operated trade fleet.

[jlehtone]

What you want is for the game to have 0 demand for the basic income a player has.
People like you have destroyed the game with 4.0 mining changes.

Sure, I feel "fine" without basic income and mining. Do I?


There is an important design decision: Is the player important?

• If the economy will crash and collapse without player intervention, then the player is very important
• If the NPC work perfectly, particularly their logistics, then they will beat player to most deals and player is not important nor necessary

Alas, we have an illusion about "sandbox". That we can do many things. More importantly, that all of us do not do all the things.

That leads to players, who, for example do not want to intervene the logistics of economy, do not want to anything but logistics, or do want to lead an unstoppable juggernaut. At least during this part of this playthrough.

The trick is then to find the compromise that can keep the simulation in semi-sane state regardless of player actions without rendering the player inconsequential and unable to "achieve". "The player" as in some of the playstyles. Oh, there are those, who lament because they can wipe the entire galaxy in a blink, which does not "feel like an achievement". Too powerful to be "important".


There are usual reasons why products are not available: there is no resources for production, there is no production capacity, or there is not enough logistics to haul the existing resources to existing capacity. The last one is and has been an big factor why both the NPC economy is "dry" and the player has opportunities to "achieve".


The reduction of resource availability will reduce rate of production if there already was optimal logistics to consume all available resources. Was there?
The Xenon seem to be more limited by lack of Miners than the amount of resources.

The move of resources from core sectors to edge increases the need for logistics. Increases the role of player.


@OP: The NPC Miners should bring resources to your stations, but your stations will compete with others; Miners select "good offers".
This is not really different from X2/X3. Yes, there were Mines with resource as product, but the chance that a NPC Free Trader would haul resources to your Factory (or any Factory) was abysmal. Resource hauling (with freighter) was solid "basic income" in X2/X3. The equivalent in X4 are Miners. They don't require ECells, like X3 Mines did.