Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

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Dreez
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Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by Dreez » Mon, 10. May 21, 18:52

Currently working on securing key systems from where Xenon are known to enter the commonwealth areas,
such as Matrix 451 andTharkas Cascade, by placing a gun platform close to the gate.

I used this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLGzoanFueU as a blueprint but after putting it
together, i noticed the obscene amount of weaponcomponents required... 48.000 aprox.
This made me reconsider exactly what kind of gunplatform that would be capable of handling any xenon invasionfleets
without demanding more resources than the entire universe has combined in weapons .

Anyone who's got a good idea/estimate on a defense platform to effectively deal with the invasionfleets ?.
Or is this behemoth really necessary ?.
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

GCU Grey Area
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Re: Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by GCU Grey Area » Mon, 10. May 21, 19:16

Looks excessive to me. Would be sufficient with less than 1/2 of the number of defence modules. Overall design looks OK though, just wouldn't bother building it with quite that many defence modules. This is what I was building in my 3.0 game to defend gates with a high incidence of Xenon invasions:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0nkcy56wt77si ... 1.jpg?dl=0
20 Argon defence disks (i.e. total of 320 L turrets & 160 M) was more than enough.

Dreez
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Re: Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by Dreez » Mon, 10. May 21, 19:28

Thanks, ye the current platform seemed to be overkill, especially when i saw how much resources it required.
I wasn't aware of that you could build structures inside eachother tho, in X3 that used to end with station blowing up.
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

Midnitewolf
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Re: Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by Midnitewolf » Mon, 10. May 21, 20:13

Well it has been my experience that you would be surprised just how much defense you require to plug up the Xenon and I would much rather have a bit of overkill than have to babysit the station to make sure it didn't get taken out or even severely damaged while I wasn't looking.

I mean it might sound like a lot of resources but remember, this game sets no limits for the player so you essentially have unlimited credits and resources and could literally build a defense platform with thousands of guns on it without it ever stopping your progression. That being said, build it large and in charge and then just let it gradually fill in over time. What I mean by that is that once you get enough guns on it you feel comfortable, even if the station is looking for 500 million in its budget, just drop a couple million into the station budget every once in a while when you have it to spare and it will just gradually grow over time until it becomes impregnable.

Oh and to get on my soap box while I am at it. I hate this about the game. No restrictions to the player, means eventually, there are no challenges as well.

GCU Grey Area
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Re: Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by GCU Grey Area » Mon, 10. May 21, 20:37

Dreez wrote:
Mon, 10. May 21, 19:28
Thanks, ye the current platform seemed to be overkill, especially when i saw how much resources it required.
I wasn't aware of that you could build structures inside eachother tho, in X3 that used to end with station blowing up.
Yeah, no problems at all building modules that intersect with each other. Often do that, prefer the aesthetics of stations that appear to be a single unit.

As for overkill, well must admit this was iteration 1.0 of my defence platforms, from the game before the one where I was building those compact Argon platforms:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v7k6dsvnq0n17 ... 1.jpg?dl=0
152 defence modules (640 L turrets, 996 M), storage for 2240 missiles with integrated missile manufacturing from basic resources.

In my defence that was the version where the Xenon were given MUCH better guns & faction wars became a thing. It's possible I might have over-reacted.
Could annihilate entire fleets in a matter of seconds, looked like this in action:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f116iehzyda2p ... 1.jpg?dl=0
About 10 seconds later:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/01py7qrlhqju0 ... 1.jpg?dl=0
Fun for a while, but unnecessary. Also took best part of a day to build each one. Have been much more restrained in subsequent games.

IRONOX
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Re: Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by IRONOX » Mon, 10. May 21, 21:13

I currently use mainly some Syns with Katanas and Jins.

They need to be replaced from time to time but other than some Xenon T´s and N´s nothing comes trough
And its a lot cheaper and faster to set up (even so the increase in maintenance)
Alle Angaben mit Gewähr auf eventuelle Fehlerhaftigkeit!

Dreez
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Re: Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by Dreez » Tue, 11. May 21, 00:55

IRONOX wrote:
Mon, 10. May 21, 21:13
I currently use mainly some Syns with Katanas and Jins.

They need to be replaced from time to time but other than some Xenon T´s and N´s nothing comes trough
And its a lot cheaper and faster to set up (even so the increase in maintenance)
I don't currently have that DLC, just bought the split, don't want to be swamped in "must do" quests before i get properly setup
with my stations and fleets. Currently i'm just starting to learn to walk..
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

Midnitewolf
Posts: 564
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Re: Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by Midnitewolf » Tue, 11. May 21, 03:16

Dreez wrote:
Tue, 11. May 21, 00:55
IRONOX wrote:
Mon, 10. May 21, 21:13
I currently use mainly some Syns with Katanas and Jins.

They need to be replaced from time to time but other than some Xenon T´s and N´s nothing comes trough
And its a lot cheaper and faster to set up (even so the increase in maintenance)
I don't currently have that DLC, just bought the split, don't want to be swamped in "must do" quests before i get properly setup
with my stations and fleets. Currently i'm just starting to learn to walk..

Whelp, my apologies to you. I just spend like a hour typing up a guide for you and this stupid forum logged me out for some reason and gave me a message I need to log in to quote a post. I then logged in only to find that everything I have typed, had disappeared. Not going to type it up again which I realize is very unhelpful but wanted to rant a bit about how this stupid forum cost me a hour of wasted time that no one benefited with. :evil:


Edit: Well to take back what I just said. Just hitting the back button on my browser took me back to my original attempt at posting and I managed to recover the guide. Here it is.

You can sub in other ships, it doesn't have to be Terran though Split ships tend to be a bit fragile when defending. Here is the process I generally use when setting up a "cork" to contain the Xenon. First I set up a very large Fleet to defend the position around the gate using the "Protection position" behavior. I usually reduce the radius to around 20km or even 10 km to keep the fleet very tight to the gate. If you set it up for a large radius the ships tend to stray to far from the gate and tend to wander too far from the gate. This usually means there is always one or two ships that get pounded on and usually destroyed before the fleet can concentrate and kill off the Xenon that just jumped in so keep them tight.

After I got the fleet in place, I then set up my "cork" which is my defense station. It is best to have cargo ships on hand with all the materials you need to build the station on hand because your first module only has 20% of its finalize HP and it is very easy for a Xenon to come through the game and pop the module before they get destroyed. If it get destroyed the plot is locked for like an hour. Needless to say you don't want to deal with this. If you have all the materials on hand, you can reduce this vulnerable time down to 4-5 minutes.

As for the "Cork" or defensive platform, you can start off kind of small. I started off using Argon modules and my small defensive platform consisted of 8 Discs, 1 Admin and 4 docks. If you don't plan on taking the sector, then leave out the Admin center as it is just wasted in my opinion. Why 4 docks. Well it has to do with drones. First if you only have one dock, the Xenon tend to concentrate fire on it which takes out most if not all your drones with it. Without drones you can't repair and if you can't repair, eventually the Xenon will kill the platform. Also your defense drones all launch slowly from the available S sized docks so if you have 4 docks your launching 24 drones at a time instead of just 6.

My station design and build order is the Admin Center, then a single basic 1m 6s dock on the back side of the Admin station so that it is protected. I then add a floating discs each above and below the Admin center. Then fill in 2 per side in the same location on all 4 sides. Why floating platforms? Because there is nothing to obstruct their line of sight so even the disc on the back side can shoot toward the gate. Easiest way to do floating platforms is to build connects to the desired location, then place the docks, then remove the connectors.

Once the station is complete, move the fleet back a big and see how the station holds up. If the Xenon are beating the snot out of it, move the fleet back in and add a second set of 4 discs to the station and then a third if needed. Keep repeating this and adding discs until the station can withstand everything the Xenon can throw at it. Then go use your fleet for something more productive.

Honestly, I the biggest station I tend to use consists of 24 floating discs 6 per side 3 of which located above the docks/admin and 3 below. If you have them positions right, all 24 discs can engage in a 360 degree radius alone the plane that most ships travel with limited to no obstructions.

Also, I recommend only using ARG or TER defensive modules. For ARG I only use the Discs for Terran I mostly use the bridges. The reason is that despite this game being technically 3 dimensional, most everything operates on a flat plane. Rarely does anything come at you from directly above or below and the flat nature of the modules allows the most unobstructed arcs of fire. Every other factions modules will have at least one set of guns firing arc restricted that it can't actually engage anything coming from the gate. For example the Split Y shaped disc always has 50% of its guns obstructed and unable to fire. You can compensate by adding more Y discs obviously but that is going to require a hell of alot more resources and credits to build. Using ARG or TER means you can minimize your costs and resources.

I think my platforms run 30 million to construct or close to the same cost as a high preset destroyer. Oh and I make sure I have tons of repair drones usually at least 60 to 100 so that the station can repair itself after each attack.

Oh yeah one last thing. Terran modules are borked. None of their defense modules allow for an increase in drone capacity and the only way you can get drones is by adding dock modules. Unfortunately the docks only allow like 20 drones per so you would need 3-5 docks to have what I feel is the minimum required repair drones. When using Terran modules, I actually use ARG bridges sprinkled into the build. Each bridge gets you 15 drone capacity, are relatively cheap to construct and if you want to, can be armed for more firepower. It is still a pitiful amount of drones compared to all other factions but you can at least pretty easily get a couple hundred drone capacity this way.

arshiba
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Re: Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by arshiba » Tue, 11. May 21, 13:26

Dreez wrote:
Mon, 10. May 21, 18:52
Anyone who's got a good idea/estimate on a defense platform to effectively deal with the invasionfleets ?.
My minimalistic gate defence stations. I prefer to defend the gate from the side of the commonwealth.

Small outpost. Able to resist 1 I + 3 K + ~30 N/M/P without loss.
Price is 10.5M Cr. View. Plan.
Image
Image

Reinforced outpost. The maximum attack that I noticed: two waves of 2 I + 5 K with a small subsequent repair in 30 minutes.
Price is 19M Cr (the cost of one destroyer). View. Plan.
Image
Image

By sustaining without loss, I mean exclusively OOZ attention. Raising attention level during combat is a very bad idea.

jlehtone
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Re: Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by jlehtone » Tue, 11. May 21, 16:09

Dreez wrote:
Tue, 11. May 21, 00:55
I don't currently have that DLC, just bought the split, don't want to be swamped in "must do" quests before i get properly setup
with my stations and fleets. Currently i'm just starting to learn to walk..
I've got 0 "must do" offers since I did add CoH. Then again, I've done 0 quests so far.
If they are a requirement for new quests, then that explains.
If positive rep with Terrans is a requirement, then that explains too. I like them at -30.

Some 9 Phoenix and 30 interceptors did keep Hewa I pre-4.0. Then I did withdraw and the Xenon did promptly blow up Teladi Trading Station.
Phoenix are SCA donations. Interceptors: Balaurs with Thermals.
Goner Pancake Protector X
Insanity included at no extra charge.
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IRONOX
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Re: Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by IRONOX » Tue, 11. May 21, 19:26

Dreez wrote:
Tue, 11. May 21, 00:55
IRONOX wrote:
Mon, 10. May 21, 21:13
I currently use mainly some Syns with Katanas and Jins.

They need to be replaced from time to time but other than some Xenon T´s and N´s nothing comes trough
And its a lot cheaper and faster to set up (even so the increase in maintenance)
I don't currently have that DLC, just bought the split, don't want to be swamped in "must do" quests before i get properly setup
with my stations and fleets. Currently i'm just starting to learn to walk..
Sure, likee other said, there is no need to use Terran ships. Splits and Argon can do the job as well...
I admit it was a bit unclear how i wrote this. Didn´t mean to say you have to get the new DLC, just that ships can be a viable method too (if a station is to expensive or for other reasons a not so great solution).
With maybe a bit more managment to it than just slab a station down :)
Alle Angaben mit Gewähr auf eventuelle Fehlerhaftigkeit!

Ragnos28
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Re: Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by Ragnos28 » Tue, 11. May 21, 20:27

Dreez wrote:
Mon, 10. May 21, 18:52
Currently working on securing key systems from where Xenon are known to enter the commonwealth areas,
such as Matrix 451 andTharkas Cascade, by placing a gun platform close to the gate.

I used this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLGzoanFueU as a blueprint but after putting it
together, i noticed the obscene amount of weaponcomponents required... 48.000 aprox.
This made me reconsider exactly what kind of gunplatform that would be capable of handling any xenon invasionfleets
without demanding more resources than the entire universe has combined in weapons .

Anyone who's got a good idea/estimate on a defense platform to effectively deal with the invasionfleets ?.
Or is this behemoth really necessary ?.
Hi, that is my clip :D and I would like to clarify some things.
First, I was able to put such defences in place because I have huge complexes that churns out weapons components, turrets components, hull parts and all the rest. There is no way the NPC economy could fulfill that order. Cost wise, is about 50kk.
Such defences were required in 3.3 version, when I build them.

Now, in 4.0 are obsolete. With xenon being the joke they are now, no defence stations are required to contain them, the factions will exterminate them soon enough. In the save that had defence stations like that, the xenon have only one station left.

Because I wanted the xenon back, recently, I have made fresh Coh terran cadet start. I am now at the level in wich I have a fully kitet Syn as my main combat force and the HQ is just about to finish the final stage of teleport and some other researchers. The xenon threat, virtually non existent. The only threat I seen from them is one lonely I in teladi sectors. The I is a bit too much for me to handle in my Syn, but the K's I can easily handle. That is pretty much the whole xenon threat in my game atm.

Note: I am pretty impressed with the Syn in the Yaki plot (and in general).
Spoiler
Show
I was able to destroy the xenon amplifier just with it. I think about finishing the Yaki base with it and not to w8 for the terran fleet.

jlehtone
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Re: Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by jlehtone » Tue, 11. May 21, 21:35

Ragnos28 wrote:
Tue, 11. May 21, 20:27
The I is a bit too much for me to handle in my Syn, but the K's I can easily handle.
How is the speed? When there are more K's they tend to flank / show up at akward moment. I can barely break out with Phoenix.
Goner Pancake Protector X
Insanity included at no extra charge.
There is no Box. I am the sand.

MHDriver
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Re: Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by MHDriver » Tue, 11. May 21, 22:59

This is what I use, it shuts them down rather quickly..

https://imgur.com/QiOAxY7

Ragnos28
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Re: Xenon gatedefense gunplatform, how much ?.

Post by Ragnos28 » Tue, 11. May 21, 23:53

jlehtone wrote:
Tue, 11. May 21, 21:35
Ragnos28 wrote:
Tue, 11. May 21, 20:27
The I is a bit too much for me to handle in my Syn, but the K's I can easily handle.
How is the speed? When there are more K's they tend to flank / show up at akward moment. I can barely break out with Phoenix.
Slow as a brick. Did not start the mods research or bother to go to split space to get their engines, so I have the full terran slowness :D good travel speed tho..and since I explore sectors in it, looking for money making missions, that is a plus.
I engage K's like any destroyer should, "defang" them of their L turets from distance, then kill them. So, is matter of planing your atack.

As for K's abush...like I said..xenon are joke in 4.0..the largest xenon force I seen in factions space was 1 I and 2 K's atacking an teladi warf. I despach 1 K from distance, the other one more close range, then run away from the I (with travel drive) :P
My loadout for my Syn is an antifighter one, with beam for L turrets so I use exclusively the main batteries for capital engagements. I guess that if I had some fighter escort I could go for paranid plasma on all L turrets, making the Syn a much better capital killer.
I think I could have try to defang the I as well, but teladi are cheap bastards and killing xenon in their space is not profitable (got only 200k per K kill, in argon space I could get 600k and some aditional reward from ANT, 300k or so) :twisted:

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