Hydrogen and ice

[dholmstr]

I had a little thinking and came to the conclusion that it is a really stupid way to collect Hydrogen from space in plasmaform, when we have huge chunks of ice all over place. I know this wont ever be changed in the game but still. Frozen H2O is allready in a nice compact form compared to gases (in space mostly in some kind of plasma state). This also gave me a ponder if the Xenon could have another use of it. Be it collecting heavy water or extra hydrogen for a superweapon. Looking at the nose of those K's.

[Imperial Good]

You are asking for an electrolysis module that converts water into hydrogen? Or saying that there should be chunks of frozen hydrogen in space so it can be mined in some sectors?

The argument against electrolysis for hydrogen is that hydrogen can be readily collected from space by miners in large quantities already. So either the module will not be profitable so never see use, or will be too profitable and so be used in place of gas miners undermining their purpose.

[Falcrack]

You are asking for an electrolysis module that converts water into hydrogen? Or saying that there should be chunks of frozen hydrogen in space so it can be mined in some sectors?

The argument against electrolysis for hydrogen is that hydrogen can be readily collected from space by miners in large quantities already. So either the module will not be profitable so never see use, or will be too profitable and so be used in place of gas miners undermining their purpose.

In areas where hydrogen is abundant, then yes, it would be better to collect hydrogen directly. But it might be nice to have a hydrogen production module in areas where hydrogen is scare that uses large quantities of e-cells to convert water into hydrogen (the oxygen is just vented into space I guess?). Some hydrogen, mined using extra energy, is better than no hydrogen at all.

[Imperial Good]

But it might be nice to have a hydrogen production module in areas where hydrogen is scare that uses large quantities of e-cells to convert water into hydrogen (the oxygen is just vented into space I guess?). Some hydrogen, mined using extra energy, is better than no hydrogen at all.

Or gas miners could travel up to 5 sectors to collect some for free. Gas miners are already some of the fastest ships in X4.

To me it sounds like a lot of work for something that is cool, but ultimately will not see much use. Maybe if Hydrogen was more scarce with only a few sectors offering it, but currently with the way resources are distributed I doubt there is a place in the universe without access to Hydrogen within 5 sectors. Hydrogen also mines very easily, it is not a mineable like Silicon that is difficult. Hydrogen mining does not even generate KHK attention.

[dholmstr]

Well again not really asking to change rhe game, we know that won't happen. BUt are you really saying (a bit of real physics even rough rhia is a game) that sucking hydrogen plasma with one part per cubik km is better and easier than taking a icecube with H2O and melting it infront of a star?

[Imperial Good]

BUt are you really saying (a bit of real physics even rough rhia is a game) that sucking hydrogen plasma with one part per cubik km is better and easier than taking a icecube with H2O and melting it infront of a star?

In real life, I do not know. But in X4 it most certainly is.

Making water is costly as you not only have to mine ice, but then use energy cells to melt that ice into water, along with supplying a work force for that to happen. This is before electrolysis even happens, which would be another expensive production process with workforce. On the other hand you can send out a gas miner and get hydrogen straight away.

[dholmstr]

BUt are you really saying (a bit of real physics even rough rhia is a game) that sucking hydrogen plasma with one part per cubik km is better and easier than taking a icecube with H2O and melting it infront of a star?

In real life, I do not know. But in X4 it most certainly is.

Making water is costly as you not only have to mine ice, but then use energy cells to melt that ice into water, along with supplying a work force for that to happen. This is before electrolysis even happens, which would be another expensive production process with workforce. On the other hand you can send out a gas miner and get hydrogen straight away.

Thats just balancing stuff if that would be possible in the game. I mean ingame 10 iceunits could hold more hydrogen than a fully loaded gas miner. Add a few e-cells, so? And space is empty, to really fill a gas miner of any size would take ages in space. Yes I know the game a way to concetrated gas so we'll go with that, but true sources of hydrogen is ice, big ass gasplanets and stars, neatly compressed by nature into spheres.

[jlehtone]

The game has a flowchart: https://seizewell.de/x4/X4-Materialfluss.php

Code: Select all

Resource -> Refined -> Tech 1 -> Tech 2 -> End Product

If you do add a (Water->Hydrogen) factory, then the produced Hydrogen is effectively a Tech 1 product (while mined Hydrogen is a Resource).
Possible and "physics", but isn't the flowchart "sufficiently complex" already?

PS. Looks like Terrans eat dry or frozen foods.

[al_dude]

Terran food require ice and methane.

They eat weird stuff. Maybe that's why Terran NPCs have all range of hair colors, like green, orange, red.

[Imperial Good]

Terran food require ice and methane.

Ice for water, methane as a carbon source. They are meant to fabricate food stuff (Protein Paste) from basic building blocks rather than from large scale farming of plants or animals. The MRE Packing Facility converts the Protein Paste into more traditional/appetizing looking meals that are then enclosed in a package to self-cook the food before being opened when used.

To some extent this is based on concepts that exist today. Some outlets have tried artificial meat made from lab grown or fabricated protein glued together rather than directly from an animal. The MRE self-cooking part already exists in MREs served to soldiers as rations, although nowhere near as fancy as depicted in game.

[Midnitewolf]

Well again not really asking to change rhe game, we know that won't happen. BUt are you really saying (a bit of real physics even rough rhia is a game) that sucking hydrogen plasma with one part per cubik km is better and easier than taking a icecube with H2O and melting it infront of a star?

Your taking immersion and I feel you. There are tons of things I wish they would change that are totally immersion breaking and would improve gameplay but I am not sure that a mechanism from converting water to hydrogen would actually improve gameplay. In fact I think it would add more complexity to the game and that is the last thing a game that often finds itself struggling with doing what should be very simple things needs.

[Panos]

I had a little thinking and came to the conclusion that it is a really stupid way to collect Hydrogen from space in plasmaform, when we have huge chunks of ice all over place. I know this wont ever be changed in the game but still. Frozen H2O is allready in a nice compact form compared to gases (in space mostly in some kind of plasma state). This also gave me a ponder if the Xenon could have another use of it. Be it collecting heavy water or extra hydrogen for a superweapon. Looking at the nose of those K's.

Takes more energy to get Hydrogen from water electrolysis than farm it from it's natural source.
Do not forget Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe and easily harvested if you have spaceships.

Is so abundant that our star (the Sun) burns 5 million tons every second already for 5 billion years and will do so for another 4 billion years.
As they do all main sequence stars (some in 20-40 times bigger)

[dholmstr]

I had a little thinking and came to the conclusion that it is a really stupid way to collect Hydrogen from space in plasmaform, when we have huge chunks of ice all over place. I know this wont ever be changed in the game but still. Frozen H2O is allready in a nice compact form compared to gases (in space mostly in some kind of plasma state). This also gave me a ponder if the Xenon could have another use of it. Be it collecting heavy water or extra hydrogen for a superweapon. Looking at the nose of those K's.

Takes more energy to get Hydrogen from water electrolysis than farm it from it's natural source.
Do not forget Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe and easily harvested if you have spaceships.

Is so abundant that our star (the Sun) burns 5 million tons every second already for 5 billion years and will do so for another 4 billion years.
As they do all main sequence stars (some in 20-40 times bigger)

You are right, it is the most abundant material in our solarsystem/universe. Guess where it is? Our Sun has 99% of it in our solarsystem and burning just fine. Jupiter has the rest. Not the asteroid belt or Kuipers belt...or Ooorts cloud. Very little is between the stars, even if there was of it, would need one mighty scoop to get any. I get it that the game mechanics are what they are now, I'm just wondering why they didn't go the ice way to start with.