X4, Back-Forwards to X3 FL

[Crux_72]

Is there anything else besides visuals and my favourite Betty version? Like some neat game functionality missing in X4?

It's a lot of which I would have to put too many spoilers. Small things, but things that make the game a few nuances deeper.
In principle, I can only recommend installing it and just fellow the main plot a bit - you get a feeling for the new possibilities relatively quickly.

X3FL is different. It is slow. And it offers a depth of possibilities that X4 will not be able to offer for years. It lets you play YOUR game the way YOU want to - no ifs, ands or buts.

Uh, am i playing x4 wrong? This is how i play x4, my game my way...

It seems the applied pressure to force you to play Egosofts way isn't big enough, this will be adressed in an upcoming patch /joke

What I just said

[jlehtone]

Same here & it's always been the case with every X game. There's always been something added with each new game (including XR) that I find sufficiently indispensable that I can't go back to the previous one, no matter how much I enjoyed it at the time. In the case of X4 it's the station building, the queued orders & ship upgrade/modification systems.

I'm playing both (at different times obviously) and they are quite different but both fun in their own ways. The only thing I find a bit hard is adjusting to the often similar-looking yet quite different UI and control systems in the two games and so keep pressing the wrong keys.

"Manly man" can do but one thing at a time. A lot about UI and some more technical:

I did Xbtf after X3R. The UI was more "Spartan". But, I knew what Nostrop Oil is so first trade runs were easy. Now, I have to tweak OS setup to even get Xbtf or X-T to start; high resolution wide screen is a no-go.

X2 ... Z-axis (rudder) on HOTAS has been leaking for years. Can't disable in-game. Probably can't install software for Win 10, so ... Ah, Rubber Duck! might have just solved that.

Can't quite remember X3AP HOTAS bindings. Years of it and now zip.

"muscle memory is a harsh mistress"

[grapedog]

How long ( ingame days) have you been playing, if you don't mind me asking?

My experience with the last three game starts was that after a certain time either the Xenon or the HOP had conquered three quarters of all systems. In my last run, this was the case after 8 ingame days...

I mean, i have multiple saves, ranging from 2 days to 30+ days. Are there times when i juml in to help the NPCs... sometimes yes, sometimes no. Jist depends on how aggressively im playing. But ive completely ignored the xenon for a week plus on one save, and not much has changed. I don't feel pressure to run to the aid of the factions.

[GReaper]

Someone here who also loves X4. I started playing X games with X3 and I LOVED it (I still do). Some time ago I tried to go back to X3 but it seems a bit oudated for me. Of course, I still think it's a great game, but I prefer X4. It may have some bugs but that doesn't prevent me for spending hours and hours on it. I also like to be pending on new updates and patches, and to see what X4 is becoming. Great job, Egosoft!!

[Crux_72]

How long ( ingame days) have you been playing, if you don't mind me asking?

My experience with the last three game starts was that after a certain time either the Xenon or the HOP had conquered three quarters of all systems. In my last run, this was the case after 8 ingame days...

I mean, i have multiple saves, ranging from 2 days to 30+ days. Are there times when i juml in to help the NPCs... sometimes yes, sometimes no. Jist depends on how aggressively im playing. But ive completely ignored the xenon for a week plus on one save, and not much has changed. I don't feel pressure to run to the aid of the factions.

But you do help them from time to time, don't you? And you have several ships, from small fighters to destroyers, that could intervene at any time, right?
Now try it without this... try to just trade and explore the universe, not interfere.

In my experience, it always ends the same way in the end - in the downfall of the universe. Well, as already written, not at the moment, with V4.0, but that's obviously not what's wanted. I mean... still credits are harvested in such large amounts that it is obvious that one should own large fleets... only that you can't do anything with them at the moment. Assuming I finish my current explorationtrip in X4 - then I already have so many credits from all the stuff I've collected that I'll be able to buy a whole flotilla right off the bat - and that's just different in X3FL. Works there too... but there's a lot more in between. X4 jumps directly from the simple fighter to a hugh fleet in notime... end-game content? Yes, diplomacy and terraformin... for which you need so many credits that you can't avoid building several complexes. Here again; forced gigantism, with empasis on forced. That's what I like about the predecessors (XT - X3) and especially now about X3FL; gigantism yes... as an absolute end goal and only when I want it. No need to. Nowhere. And because the two game feelings are now so different, I consider X3 and X4 to be so different that I don't even want to call them 'related' any more. Shit, not even the races look the same in X3 and X4... that makes it even more easy.

EDIT: I see that many here write that they can't go back to X3... that they tried it a while ago but they don't like it anymore... I'm starting to think that some don't realise that we're talking about X3 - Farnham's Legacy... which has only been out for a week...

[Raptor34]

Same here & it's always been the case with every X game. There's always been something added with each new game (including XR) that I find sufficiently indispensable that I can't go back to the previous one, no matter how much I enjoyed it at the time. In the case of X4 it's the station building, the queued orders & ship upgrade/modification systems.

I'm playing both (at different times obviously) and they are quite different but both fun in their own ways. The only thing I find a bit hard is adjusting to the often similar-looking yet quite different UI and control systems in the two games and so keep pressing the wrong keys.

"Manly man" can do but one thing at a time. A lot about UI and some more technical:

I did Xbtf after X3R. The UI was more "Spartan". But, I knew what Nostrop Oil is so first trade runs were easy. Now, I have to tweak OS setup to even get Xbtf or X-T to start; high resolution wide screen is a no-go.

X2 ... Z-axis (rudder) on HOTAS has been leaking for years. Can't disable in-game. Probably can't install software for Win 10, so ... Ah, Rubber Duck! might have just solved that.

Can't quite remember X3AP HOTAS bindings. Years of it and now zip.

"muscle memory is a harsh mistress"

I actually have more nostalgia for X2 than X3. It's just simpler in many ways.
Of course it has no alt-tab so it's really irritating to play.
I've mentioned it before but I really miss the space trucking. If they bring that back then X4 would be perfect.

[Crux_72]

I actually have more nostalgia for X2 than X3. It's just simpler in many ways.
Of course it has no alt-tab so it's really irritating to play.
I've mentioned it before but I really miss the space trucking. If they bring that back then X4 would be perfect.

Yes, I feel the same way. X2 is, for me, still the 'best' part of the original series. Everything was just right; gameplay, ambience... Even the campaign was exciting and, apart from the animations of the characters, well staged.

And you got to the point; the trucker aspect was completely lost in X4. Sure, you can still do it, but the system is obviously not designed for it.

[al_dude]

As much as I have lots of fond memories for X3, I would not go back to X3.

X4 is overall more "lively". People may be complaining that faction wars go nowhere but there was no NPC conflicts at all in X3.

[Raptor34]

I actually have more nostalgia for X2 than X3. It's just simpler in many ways.
Of course it has no alt-tab so it's really irritating to play.
I've mentioned it before but I really miss the space trucking. If they bring that back then X4 would be perfect.

Yes, I feel the same way. X2 is, for me, still the 'best' part of the original series. Everything was just right; gameplay, ambience... Even the campaign was exciting and, apart from the animations of the characters, well staged.

And you got to the point; the trucker aspect was completely lost in X4. Sure, you can still do it, but the system is obviously not designed for it.

I actually don't care about the trading.
What I miss is the missions. The ones where you need to get a large cargo from one station to another in a very short time.
Tbf those were shit in X3 as well, their missions there seems overly tuned that you never have enough rank. Although while X4 still has rank I'm not sure those are still used.
If I can get those back in X4 it would be perfect. Perhaps even some where you need to actually min max your ship with mods to do it, but have great payoff.
I'm imagining you can go to talk to someone, then they'll load the cargo. You then rush over and then talk to some guy at the destination. Basically something detached from the economy, doesn't affect it and its not affected by it. Like a courier.

[MrFiction]

How long ( ingame days) have you been playing, if you don't mind me asking?

My experience with the last three game starts was that after a certain time either the Xenon or the HOP had conquered three quarters of all systems. In my last run, this was the case after 8 ingame days...

I mean, i have multiple saves, ranging from 2 days to 30+ days. Are there times when i juml in to help the NPCs... sometimes yes, sometimes no. Jist depends on how aggressively im playing. But ive completely ignored the xenon for a week plus on one save, and not much has changed. I don't feel pressure to run to the aid of the factions.

But you do help them from time to time, don't you? And you have several ships, from small fighters to destroyers, that could intervene at any time, right?
Now try it without this... try to just trade and explore the universe, not interfere.

In my experience, it always ends the same way in the end - in the downfall of the universe. Well, as already written, not at the moment, with V4.0, but that's obviously not what's wanted. I mean... still credits are harvested in such large amounts that it is obvious that one should own large fleets... only that you can't do anything with them at the moment. Assuming I finish my current explorationtrip in X4 - then I already have so many credits from all the stuff I've collected that I'll be able to buy a whole flotilla right off the bat - and that's just different in X3FL. Works there too... but there's a lot more in between. X4 jumps directly from the simple fighter to a hugh fleet in notime... end-game content? Yes, diplomacy and terraformin... for which you need so many credits that you can't avoid building several complexes. Here again; forced gigantism, with empasis on forced. That's what I like about the predecessors (XT - X3) and especially now about X3FL; gigantism yes... as an absolute end goal and only when I want it. No need to. Nowhere. And because the two game feelings are now so different, I consider X3 and X4 to be so different that I don't even want to call them 'related' any more. Shit, not even the races look the same in X3 and X4... that makes it even more easy.

EDIT: I see that many here write that they can't go back to X3... that they tried it a while ago but they don't like it anymore... I'm starting to think that some don't realise that we're talking about X3 - Farnham's Legacy... which has only been out for a week...

That's not exactly fair. X3 (AP) usually ends in an economic collapse if the player doesn't intervene. X4 sometimes ends in war and destruction, just like you describe. But that's what a lot of players want, otherwise the game becomes stale, almost boring after 50+ hours because the challenge slowly fades away.

I can understand your point, it kinda breaks the sandbox idea. But still, I thinks it's awesome how they've handled it in X4 and I think most players agree (to an extent).

[Crux_72]

I can understand your point, it kinda breaks the sandbox idea. But still, I thinks it's awesome how they've handled it in X4 and I think most players agree (to an extent).

That's why X4 is the way it is... I'm aware that I'm a tiny minority, which is why I'm all the more grateful that X3 has received a new chapter with Farnham's Legacy, with enough changes to keep me entertained for months to come. By then, EGO may even have managed to build in start options in X4 that allow you to set the framework of your universe. Because you have brought it to the point;

Forcing me to play a certain way breaks (ruins) to the sandbox idea.


Once X stood for FIGHT, TRADE, THINK, BUILD.


Today, it stands for FIGHT, TRADE, THINK, BUILD.


All this said, I think X4 is quite good and I enjoy playing it... but I miss the 'good old X times' .

@Raptor34
Didn't X-REBIRTH have the kind of missions you describe? I seem to remember something like that...

[Raptor34]

I can understand your point, it kinda breaks the sandbox idea. But still, I thinks it's awesome how they've handled it in X4 and I think most players agree (to an extent).

That's why X4 is the way it is... I'm aware that I'm a tiny minority, which is why I'm all the more grateful that X3 has received a new chapter with Farnham's Legacy, with enough changes to keep me entertained for months to come. By then, EGO may even have managed to build in start options in X4 that allow you to set the framework of your universe. Because you have brought it to the point;

Forcing me to play a certain way breaks (ruins) to the sandbox idea.


Once X stood for FIGHT, TRADE, THINK, BUILD.


Today, it stands for FIGHT, TRADE, THINK, BUILD.


All this said, I think X4 is quite good and I enjoy playing it... but I miss the 'good old X times' .

@Raptor34
Didn't X-REBIRTH have the kind of missions you describe? I seem to remember something like that...

By the time I got a computer that can comfortably run XR, X4 already came out. Tried to get into it but it feels unintuitive.
That and the Albion Skunk looks ugly. I wouldn't mind a single ship so much if it didn't look like that.
X2 had those though and X3. I actually started my journey in the X universe slowly trading energy cells with the TP for that mission, then getting a TS and starting to do all those courier missions. So I look fondly on it.
Of course that was when EC had a spread of 6-26 iirc so they were very profitable. That got nerfed later and further more in X3 so I didn't bother.
I think I bought a Centaur solely off the back of courier missions and EC trading, of course along with supplying ECs, using the exploit where you can sell your current load, and they'll still take more than their capacity for the mission. Pretty good.

[GCU Grey Area]

Today, it stands for FIGHT, TRADE, THINK, BUILD.

No, that's just how YOU play X4. Don't assume it's the same for everyone. For me Trade is the most interesting aspect of X4, particularly due to it's queued orders system, saving me the bother of having to keep paper notes on what I'd planned to do next with each ship in my trade fleet. Makes running a large manual trade fleet far more viable. Think that's what puts me off the most when I think of going back to X3 to try out FL. My old methods of MORTing just seem ridiculously clunky in hindsight.

[Crux_72]

Today, it stands for FIGHT, TRADE, THINK, BUILD.

No, that's just how YOU play X4. Don't assume it's the same for everyone. For me Trade is the most interesting aspect of X4, particularly due to it's queued orders system, saving me the bother of having to keep paper notes on what I'd planned to do next with each ship in my trade fleet. Makes running a large manual trade fleet far more viable. Think that's what puts me off the most when I think of going back to X3 to try out FL. My old methods of MORTing just seem ridiculously clunky in hindsight.

You must have misunderstood me; I (try) play as a pure trader / explorer. However, at a certain point X4 forces me to build large complexes (BUILD) in order to be able to finance an even larger armada with which I am supposed to 'save' my universe, because either the Xenon or the HOP are running amok (FIGHT).

If it were up to me, this would be completely optional.

Of course, you may be in the position to trade in peace in your universe, as we know that every game start develops differently. But for me, as written above, it was over after 3 ingame days at the latest, because at that point only FIGHT was left.

So it's not how I play it, it's more about how I want to play it but can't because EGO's vision forces me to play it the way they want me to.

And all I mean is that this was not the case in the prequels - at least not if you play the way I do and don't want to go to all-out war

But maybe X4 is just not my cup of tea anymore

[Alan Phipps]

If it helps, I always play a slow vanilla X4 game so no priority for great armadas, player Wharves/Shipyards, station complexes or player sector ownership.

In one pre-COH vanilla game the HOP wiped out almost all of ARG highway ring sectors and some of those of PAR, and the Xenon wiped out half of the Northern ZYA. However, ARG later recovered when they built new docks etc in ARG, ANT and HAT areas away from the ring. In parallel, I was by then able to help the ZYA back to strength purely by using my transport fleet to supply traded resources and ship/station construction wares to their docks and producers and they then reclaimed their sectors and pushed the Xenon right back into their Matrix sectors.

In my current COH vanilla game, it does seem more balanced with TER/PIO pressing back against HOP expansion and partly helping to keep Xenon in check in the West.

My FIGHT gameplay element is mainly plots/missions and route defence for my transports. (Oh, and capturing SCA/FAF M fighters and capitals.)

[chip56]

There are still some things in X3 that i prefer over the way it was implemented in x4:

Turret commands
Missions that scale with rank so that taxi missions can actually be very worthwile
Being able to assign ANY ship with ANY task to station and then hide ships with assigned homebases.
ships that are hostile to you are at the top of the objects list and not somewhere in between.
Claiming, repairing, scanning and other things have a longer range in x3 than in x4, even though x4 has actually ships and weapons with longer range. I mean you could claim at 30 meters in x3 but now you need to find the right spot and be at 2m to do that. Scanning 500 m in x4 vs 4km in x3.
The" ohhh damn" or "oh yessss" feeling when a M2 jumps in to your location depending on which side it is. You struggle with a xenon Q moving towards your station, mentally preparing yourself that you will lose it and a rapid force m2 jumps in? Oh yeah. You want to destroy some station since its ruining your profitssss? Upps there is the M2 jumping in...
Patrol missions that ensure you have something to do. Yes its spawning ships. I still prefer that over a mission that tells me to patrol half an hour in a sector without seeing any hostile ship at all.
...

Of course some things i like much better in x4:
You need a 25 Mj shield? bad luck, none of the 50 stations you know has any in stock. Thats not happening in x4 (though i miss being a weapons trader a bit)
Teleporter device for player is damn sweet.
Finding missions and not having to com everyone first to find out what the mission is about
...

And some things i am not sure
Travel drive: On the one side i love being faster somewhere. On the other side it messes up moving in formation and hunting down ships that are in travel drive is no fun.

[GCU Grey Area]

You must have misunderstood me; I (try) play as a pure trader / explorer. However, at a certain point X4 forces me to build large complexes (BUILD) in order to be able to finance an even larger armada with which I am supposed to 'save' my universe, because either the Xenon or the HOP are running amok (FIGHT).

If it were up to me, this would be completely optional.

It has been optional for me. Have never felt forced to build anything. I do Build because I enjoy that aspect of the game, though mostly for the architectural aesthetics rather than a pure profit motive. It's really only when I get to the point in the game where I want to dabble in terraforming that I feel that major construction projects become pretty much mandatory.

As for fleets, I do have one, currently consists of 1 Tokyo with a couple of dozen fighters, 2 Asgards & 8 Osakas (paid cash for the Tokyo & Oaskas, built the Asgards). It's spent the past several weeks on guard duty at my HQ - complete overkill since the biggest threat they face there is the occasional Khaak fighter which follows a miner back home. Occasionally the fleet rolls out for a demolition job, but only if one of the factions is willing to give me a purple weapon mod for my troubles. However recently opportunities for that have been a bit thin on the ground.

Have at no point felt forced to save the universe. Sometimes I might decide to intervene militarily for a specific faction - did that in my 3.30 ZYA game, but that was still entirely my choice. Still plenty of universe to Trade with even if I'd decided to leave them to face the Xenon on their own (as I did in my preceding 3.0 FRF game).

For the most part I find as long as I focus sufficiently on Trade the factions I like have been pretty good at looking out for themselves (TEL often ends up with a particularly big fleet), while the ones I embargo tend to do less well. Was certainly effective at keeping HOP in their place in my current game.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

X4 is simulateously one of the best games and one of the most frustrating.
Visually stunning well done the artists. Most of everthing almost works. I really enjoy just flying around some of the sectors.
I am currently moving around the stations and ships I own and enjoying the view.
However I keep getting interrupted, pirates. Never a moments peace. So I can understand the view that a little bit of quiet every now and again would be nice.
I tried to go back to X3 sometime ago. It is not possible for me, each to their own.

Kudos to the guys for continuing their work. I am sure that a whole lot of people will enjoy it. X3 was for a time the best game, just as X2 was.

Now I really enjoying X4. For me the balance of CoH is almost perfect.

[Rei Ayanami]

However I keep getting interrupted, pirates. Never a moments peace. So I can understand the view that a little bit of quiet every now and again would be nice.

I had a similar issue a long time ago when the Split DLC came out, with pirate ships scanning me and talking to me almost every minute. I think depending on how much valuable stuff you have in your inventory pirates interrupt you more often. Once I sold all valuable stuff from my inventory the pirate scans and interruptions happened way less often.

Try selling your inventory stuff or putting everything in the player HQ stash box, perhaps that'll help.

[Jeraal]

Is there anything else besides visuals and my favourite Betty version? Like some neat game functionality missing in X4?
...

Not specific to FL, but X3 in general. Three words- PROPERY LIST MANAGEMENT. We could filter the list in many ways. Want to just see your M3,4,5 ships? What about just TS/TP? Easy to do.