Is fighting harder ?

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Imperial Good
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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by Imperial Good » Mon, 7. Jun 21, 23:04

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Mon, 7. Jun 21, 09:52
I can do everything in a Falx I could do in that Katana
Except fly very fast. The S like handling of the Falx unfortunately comes at the cost of S like speed. For cruising or intercepting the Katan is a lot better.

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by GCU Grey Area » Mon, 7. Jun 21, 23:26

Imperial Good wrote:
Mon, 7. Jun 21, 23:04
Except fly very fast. The S like handling of the Falx unfortunately comes at the cost of S like speed. For cruising or intercepting the Katan is a lot better.
That's true, could be flying a bit faster in a Katana. However, Falx is more than fast enough for my purposes. With TER mk3 combat engines & it's current mods it can manage 465m/s (5.5km/s in travel mode). I consider that good enough & find it's other characteristics (S dock, crew capacity, ludicrous acceleration, etc) far more beneficial than a bit of extra speed.

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by grapedog » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 00:25

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Mon, 7. Jun 21, 23:26
Imperial Good wrote:
Mon, 7. Jun 21, 23:04
Except fly very fast. The S like handling of the Falx unfortunately comes at the cost of S like speed. For cruising or intercepting the Katan is a lot better.
That's true, could be flying a bit faster in a Katana. However, Falx is more than fast enough for my purposes. With TER mk3 combat engines & it's current mods it can manage 465m/s (5.5km/s in travel mode). I consider that good enough & find it's other characteristics (S dock, crew capacity, ludicrous acceleration, etc) far more beneficial than a bit of extra speed.
Speed does have diminishing returns once you are already faster than almost anything. What never has diminishing returns is TER near instant travel drive. I have a really hard time flying personally any ship that doesn't have it. Pretty much all my personal ships have it.

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by Hector0x » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 08:36

the trick for S ship dogfighting is liberal usage of the flight assist toggle combined with very short bursts of boost or terran travel drive. It allows you to shift your flightpath way faster than strafing or steering could ever do. You don't need a Hotas for this, mouse + keyboard works just fine. Always change movement and speed and no enemy will hit you with targeted fire. Only occasionally you'll eat a stray bullet.

If you fight like a WW2 plane you can't beat multiple opponents. But if you disable flight assist you can fly sideways or reverse and keep on shooting at 1 enemy. Never switch targets, it will only help them to recharge shields. Always stay behind him so he doesn't shoot back. If he's slowly getting an angle on you, aim a bit behind him and activate flight assist again. This will give you a huge momentum shift towards a trajectory which puts you out of his weapons angle. Almost instantly deactivate flight assist again and move your nose back on the target's rear. If you do these course corrections frequently enough all other enemies won't be able to hit you at all. Your constant speed changes should be a couple hundred m/s minimim. Don't use standard throttle for that. Mostly boost or terran traveldrive.

If you got terran combat engines save your boost entirely and only use it after you got hit (which blocks traveldrive for a few seconds). Retreat with boost if shields ever drop to 50%


With this tactic and a Takoba i can survive up to a few minutes in between an entire enemy fleet while killing a few of their fighters.


TLDR:
1) constantly change flight path and speed to evade everything.
2) Flight assist off for maximum focusfire on 1 enemy

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by Submarine » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 11:10

KextV8 wrote:
Mon, 7. Jun 21, 22:23
I don't like the Dragon either because it's single shield feels too weak for my taste. Far too many times have I flown near a hostile station and gotten heavily damaged or destroyed by something one of the better shielded Ms would have shrugged off.
Dragons are tricky to fly and use OOS because of this but they are free and aquiring one involves interesting gameplay which gives them a storied uniqueness and rarity value, more viable if you have access to Terran shields as one does with a Terran start, since the Ter Mk3 adds 50% to the best non-Terran shield, for a price.
spoiler about Dragon capture
Show
If you are lucky / skilled / have the right ship, you can catch a Dragon with Mk4 combat engines, which can be quite a challenge and equally rewarding due to the high price of the engine.
I view catching crim ships as bounty hunting and it meshes with the Terran ideology to be turning these criminal ships into enforcement vehicles to protect the sentient races against the onslaught of mechanical mayhem and mystifying alien attacks. Still haven't done the Terran mission as I am having too much fun capturing pirate ships.
bloop

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by af_2017 » Tue, 8. Jun 21, 16:42

Trevelvis wrote:
Sat, 5. Jun 21, 22:27
Is fighting harder ?
Nope, it's not harder, it's different.
I suggest to get familiar with current weapons/ships/flying and npc behavior.
X4 is not a destination. It's a journey. Unfortunately in a wrong direction.

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by RodentofDoom » Wed, 9. Jun 21, 02:55

It can be at times yes.

The AI seems to use one of 2 tactics
most of the time - figure of 8 strafing runs with you as the focal point
some of the time - staying in your rear blind spot

If there are a group of enemies they will tag-team
One or more boost away to recharge shields
And at the same time
One or more will close in to engage you

If you're in something with turrets [attack my target] is a better default than [attack all enemies]
with the latter each turret can select a different enemy as it's target
which just fast tracks you into the tag-team strategy

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by Kajar » Thu, 10. Jun 21, 07:17

S Fighter vs S Fighter is very much a numbers game. The side with more fighters usually wins. Make sure to equip proper anti-fighter weapons, Pulse Laser or Beam, to reliably hit your target. Keep moving, strafing and rolling all the time to throw off the enemy aim. Make plenty of use of your boost and travel drive in combat to keep your speed up - Combat engines recommended as they activate travel drive instantly and have the least shield reduction when boosting. In this the terran engines are king and they might just be the best engines for dogfighting. Split engines are more for boom-and-zoom with their high base speed but low acceleration, pretty much the opposite of terran. The other three engines are somewhere in the middle with Argon having the best travel top speed, Paranid having slightly better base and boost top speeds and the Teladi shifting more towards acceleration.

I personaly also use the Nodan or Discoverer as an early player ship. Nodan just looks nice and fancy and is a decent light fighter as well. And the Discoverer is, well, the Discoverer. Its filled with nostalgia.
You might also want to look into the Quasar, while on paper it looks worse than the Eclipse, the Quasar has much, much better responsiveness giving it some massive dogfighting mobility. The Eclipse definitely needs more space to move. Ares might just be the best and most cost effective heavy fighter in the game, if you dont plan on travelling much.

As for the best ship for the player to personally fly? Hands down the standard Dragon model. 4x Medium Beam Mk2 to oneshot fighters from max range. 2x Heavy Swarm missile launchers for big punching power against capital ships and for removing groups of turrets super easily, and just deleting enemy M sized targets.. 2x Plasma turrets for extra DPS against capitals. That set up is easily capable of clearing entire xenon sectors all alone, without any support. Might even be able to conquer the entire galaxy with a single Dragon.
Not the Raider variant because it got no missile capacity and using a pure 6-gun setup is a bad idea because of the massive cooldown reduction your weapons and you will be sitting on heat forever.

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by Imperial Good » Fri, 11. Jun 21, 10:25

aversin wrote:
Thu, 10. Jun 21, 07:17
That set up is easily capable of clearing entire xenon sectors all alone, without any support.
I have a feeling it would struggle to take out Xenon Defence Stations faster than they can rebuild them. It just lacks the DPS to do much to them as those things are ridiculously tough.

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by Trevelvis » Mon, 14. Jun 21, 18:11

aversin wrote:
Thu, 10. Jun 21, 07:17
S Fighter vs S Fighter is very much a numbers game. The side with more fighters usually wins. Make sure to equip proper anti-fighter weapons, Pulse Laser or Beam, to reliably hit your target. Keep moving, strafing and rolling all the time to throw off the enemy aim. Make plenty of use of your boost and travel drive in combat to keep your speed up - Combat engines recommended as they activate travel drive instantly and have the least shield reduction when boosting. In this the terran engines are king and they might just be the best engines for dogfighting. Split engines are more for boom-and-zoom with their high base speed but low acceleration, pretty much the opposite of terran. The other three engines are somewhere in the middle with Argon having the best travel top speed, Paranid having slightly better base and boost top speeds and the Teladi shifting more towards acceleration.

I personaly also use the Nodan or Discoverer as an early player ship. Nodan just looks nice and fancy and is a decent light fighter as well. And the Discoverer is, well, the Discoverer. Its filled with nostalgia.
You might also want to look into the Quasar, while on paper it looks worse than the Eclipse, the Quasar has much, much better responsiveness giving it some massive dogfighting mobility. The Eclipse definitely needs more space to move. Ares might just be the best and most cost effective heavy fighter in the game, if you dont plan on travelling much.

As for the best ship for the player to personally fly? Hands down the standard Dragon model. 4x Medium Beam Mk2 to oneshot fighters from max range. 2x Heavy Swarm missile launchers for big punching power against capital ships and for removing groups of turrets super easily, and just deleting enemy M sized targets.. 2x Plasma turrets for extra DPS against capitals. That set up is easily capable of clearing entire xenon sectors all alone, without any support. Might even be able to conquer the entire galaxy with a single Dragon.
Not the Raider variant because it got no missile capacity and using a pure 6-gun setup is a bad idea because of the massive cooldown reduction your weapons and you will be sitting on heat forever.
I am trying to open up more of the map to find better ships but it takes time if exploring sectors as well but can you give me a direction to try get Dragon , thanks

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by jlehtone » Mon, 14. Jun 21, 21:12

Overall direction is "North". If you see Split ships, then comm them and ask where you can find a Wharf.
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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by Kajar » Mon, 14. Jun 21, 21:39

Trevelvis wrote:
Mon, 14. Jun 21, 18:11

I am trying to open up more of the map to find better ships but it takes time if exploring sectors as well but can you give me a direction to try get Dragon , thanks
Depends on from where you start your journed. If coming from argon prime, the fastst, but also dangerous route, would be to go north of Hatikvahs Choice 1, through the Xenon Sector of Tharkas Cascade - Lots of evil robots plus some mild radiation damage - go north until you reach the gate to Family Zhin. Go East to Family Nhuut. East again to Open Market and finally North to Zyarths Dominion.

Alternatively you could go northeast of Profit Center Alpha to Two Grand, then northwest to Open Market and then just north again to Zyarths Dominion.

Asking for directions to a wharf or shipyards only guides you to the nearest one, not to one of their factions.

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by Tamina » Mon, 14. Jun 21, 21:45

Well, you have been warned about the Dragon. Chances are, you won't be able to purchase the Dragon anyway right away, since Split start with a -15 relationship to Argons. I find it highly strange to recommend this ship to a beginner, but whatever. Maybe it will fit your style.

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by Trevelvis » Tue, 15. Jun 21, 10:15

Tamina wrote:
Mon, 14. Jun 21, 21:45
Well, you have been warned about the Dragon. Chances are, you won't be able to purchase the Dragon anyway right away, since Split start with a -15 relationship to Argons. I find it highly strange to recommend this ship to a beginner, but whatever. Maybe it will fit your style.
What would your choice be if not the dragon ?? Obviously me starting rep isn’t easy to change when in unfriendly factions all I can do is fight but useless at it .

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by GReaper » Tue, 15. Jun 21, 11:44

Hi everyone!

I'll keep my answer short because other people have already explained things better :D Here are my 2 cents:

- I started with a Nemesis and I really liked it. It was my personal ship for a lot of time. I think it has balanced shields and weapons.

- Then I switched to a Dragon, and later to a Dragon Raider. I loved it. Really good damage... but a glass cannon. As others pointed out, be careful about Dragons because they are hard to master. I wouldn't recommend them for new players.

- Since CoH (4.0) I'm flying a Katana and I also love it. Really fast and great weapons and shields. By now, and despite I love the Dragon Raider, I'll stick with the Katana because of (much) greater shields.

As a side note, I use my personal ship to also fight capital ships (mainly Xenon K and I) and doing so with a Dragon Raider is a challenge. You have to be very good at finding blind spots and dodging bullets. With the Katana I feel more comfortable because of greater shields which allows me more "mistakes".

Hope you find your "perfect" ship! :)

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by grapedog » Tue, 15. Jun 21, 13:28

GReaper wrote:
Tue, 15. Jun 21, 11:44
Hi everyone!

I'll keep my answer short because other people have already explained things better :D Here are my 2 cents:

- I started with a Nemesis and I really liked it. It was my personal ship for a lot of time. I think it has balanced shields and weapons.

- Then I switched to a Dragon, and later to a Dragon Raider. I loved it. Really good damage... but a glass cannon. As others pointed out, be careful about Dragons because they are hard to master. I wouldn't recommend them for new players.

- Since CoH (4.0) I'm flying a Katana and I also love it. Really fast and great weapons and shields. By now, and despite I love the Dragon Raider, I'll stick with the Katana because of (much) greater shields.

As a side note, I use my personal ship to also fight capital ships (mainly Xenon K and I) and doing so with a Dragon Raider is a challenge. You have to be very good at finding blind spots and dodging bullets. With the Katana I feel more comfortable because of greater shields which allows me more "mistakes".

Hope you find your "perfect" ship! :)
I feel like the Nemesis has the best handling/agility, the Dragon Raider the best damage, and the katana the best speed... maybe I'm off... the katana feels like it handles like... a whale, or something that has terrible handling, lol. I love the katana, but that handling...

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by paraskous » Tue, 15. Jun 21, 13:44

At some point you get numerical superiority against your S fighter and then it's quickly toast. In space there isn't much cover. Most transition to M ships then. Matching the numbers is often not finacially viable at the point in playthroughs.

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by KextV8 » Tue, 15. Jun 21, 15:59

grapedog wrote:
Tue, 15. Jun 21, 13:28
... the katana feels like it handles like... a whale, or something that has terrible handling, lol. I love the katana, but that handling...
IMO, the Katana is a jouster. With that high speed it can make nice passes on targets and gtfo for another pass. And with the Terran weapons, the bullet speed is actually high enough to hit things from decently far away so it tends to shred most things in a single pass. Less gun than a Dragon, Nemesis or Kurokami, but I always felt it was worth the trade off for Terran Bullet speed so you dont have to get in so close and risk getting pelted by multiple targets.

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by Raptor34 » Tue, 15. Jun 21, 16:44

KextV8 wrote:
Tue, 15. Jun 21, 15:59
grapedog wrote:
Tue, 15. Jun 21, 13:28
... the katana feels like it handles like... a whale, or something that has terrible handling, lol. I love the katana, but that handling...
IMO, the Katana is a jouster. With that high speed it can make nice passes on targets and gtfo for another pass. And with the Terran weapons, the bullet speed is actually high enough to hit things from decently far away so it tends to shred most things in a single pass. Less gun than a Dragon, Nemesis or Kurokami, but I always felt it was worth the trade off for Terran Bullet speed so you dont have to get in so close and risk getting pelted by multiple targets.
Depends on the gun really.
You can put those sweet sweet TER Pulse on commonwealth ships.
Not the Proton though if that's what you're referring to. But I prefer pulse for ease of use.

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Re: Is fighting harder ?

Post by jlehtone » Tue, 15. Jun 21, 16:45

paraskous wrote:
Tue, 15. Jun 21, 13:44
... not viable at the point in playthroughs.
That is very much OP case:
* Not many ships
* No high reputation
* Limited exploration
* No ace skills
Even if there might be credits, there is no Wharf to be found. If there were, there would not be reputation to grant a purchase.
And ... if a ship is acquired, combat, capturing, or boarding would still remain perilous.

Lets face it, almost anything is lethal weapon in skilled hands and even the mightiest ship is a helpless, sitting duck if you don't know how to handle it.

One can gain credits and reputation without combat.
One can explore the galaxy with any reputation. Granted, a fast ship makes it safer and quicker.
There are missions like Repair Satellite/Data Leak and Deliver Wares/Persons that do not require combat or high rep.

Explore. Trade. Take missions that you can do.
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