Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

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oasis1701
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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by oasis1701 » Fri, 3. Sep 21, 20:45

@kuertee when entering an asteroid field, will the nav computer show asteroids that have items in them? such as crystals and other things that we can sell? I've found different types of ore so far

kuertee
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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by kuertee » Fri, 3. Sep 21, 21:10

oasis1701 wrote:
Fri, 3. Sep 21, 20:45
@kuertee when entering an asteroid field, will the nav computer show asteroids that have items in them? such as crystals and other things that we can sell? I've found different types of ore so far
yeah, i'll need to learn how to search for those special extras on asteroids.
at the moment the nav com only looks for raw minerals on asteroids.
they may have crystals on them - but i the nav computer can't target them.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by oasis1701 » Fri, 3. Sep 21, 21:46

Thanks, so i will not look for them.
I installed a mod called fly by looting, It automatically opens lockboxes when you fly near them, so i could scavenge items from boxes when i fly around. I however have found some containers that i am unable to collect with the O key. (IT was dropped by a transport ship when i destroyed it) Might be big containers but not sure how i can interact with them. perhaps a suggestion for the future for the accessibility mod.

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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by CaplinCaplin » Sat, 4. Sep 21, 05:27

Hey,

Just a quick note to say that death is still happening, as far as I can tell. I get blown up in my Discoverer and am brought back to the title screen as usual.

Also, I can second what Oasis1701 says about the weirdness of the OCR. Sometimes options that should be there just aren't picked up. It's weirdly inconsistent and I wish I knew what to suggest. I was trying to attack a particular ship but the attack option just didn't show up on the scans for some reason.

Over all though, just happy the basic mod stuff is working again.

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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by oasis1701 » Sat, 4. Sep 21, 13:53

I think i may have found a bug with the mod. It won't auto pilot to unknown jump gates (or highways?) I can't tell because they are unknown.
What's also interesting is that if i target the unknown object and then press shift+a, my ship will very very slowly move towards it, without engaging travel mode.
video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jcbqsn6dbvq6j ... 3.mp4?dl=0


second video, trying it in a different system: https://www.dropbox.com/s/njd8rqhb90mfu ... 0.mp4?dl=0
I think the game doesn't like when we want to auto pilot to unknown jumpgate/highways?
edit: both nav computer AP and in game AP works with known jump gates, known objects, and unknown stations.
However it's the unknown sectors/jumpgates that's having this problem

kuertee
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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by kuertee » Sat, 4. Sep 21, 14:38

oasis1701 wrote:
Sat, 4. Sep 21, 13:53
I think i may have found a bug with the mod. It won't auto pilot to unknown jump gates (or highways?) I can't tell because they are unknown.
What's also interesting is that if i target the unknown object and then press shift+a, my ship will very very slowly move towards it, without engaging travel mode.
video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jcbqsn6dbvq6j ... 3.mp4?dl=0


second video, trying it in a different system: https://www.dropbox.com/s/njd8rqhb90mfu ... 0.mp4?dl=0
I think the game doesn't like when we want to auto pilot to unknown jumpgate/highways?
edit: both nav computer AP and in game AP works with known jump gates, known objects, and unknown stations.
However it's the unknown sectors/jumpgates that's having this problem
i find that also - especially with the AI pilot. do you find it in both player and ai pilot modes?

i'll see if i can cheat and tag them as "known" to the player. my previous attempt at that cheat in another mod (Crime has consequences, in which your ship with you in it can be impounded by factions you commit a crime against, and so may fly you to an unknown sector) didn't really work. I'll try to tag them as known in Accessibility Features' next version.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

oasis1701
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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by oasis1701 » Sat, 4. Sep 21, 15:48

kuertee wrote:
Sat, 4. Sep 21, 14:38

i find that also - especially with the AI pilot. do you find it in both player and ai pilot modes?

i'll see if i can cheat and tag them as "known" to the player. my previous attempt at that cheat in another mod (Crime has consequences, in which your ship with you in it can be impounded by factions you commit a crime against, and so may fly you to an unknown sector) didn't really work. I'll try to tag them as known in Accessibility Features' next version.
In player mode yes.

I can't get my AI captain to do anything at all, IT's my first time using it. I hired a captain, then let him control the ship, and asked him to auto pilot to different places. I can hear the guidance marker being set, but the ship doesn't move. Can you check it out as well when you have time?
I tried this on a load game and a new start, maybe there's something wrong with my game?

kuertee
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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by kuertee » Sat, 4. Sep 21, 16:06

oasis1701 wrote:
Sat, 4. Sep 21, 15:48
...I can't get my AI captain to do anything at all, IT's my first time using it. I hired a captain, then let him control the ship, and asked him to auto pilot to different places. I can hear the guidance marker being set, but the ship doesn't move. Can you check it out as well when you have time?
I tried this on a load game and a new start, maybe there's something wrong with my game?...
i tested all the commands for both player and ai pilot before releasing the last bug-fix update.
but i'll test it again when i get back on this mod. i'm dividing my time between this, my other mod in the works (galactic council) and playing.

it takes several seconds for the ai pilot to walk from his (hidden) berth to the captain's chair.
the best way to test is to fly to a station yourself.
get up. wait for the ai captain.
he'll very likely greet you as he passes you by to get to the controls.
you'll hear him turn the control chair to face outwards.
then order him to dock.
the docking process is different when the ai captain does it: he'll actually fly to the dock, request permission, then dock.
you'll likely (but not always) hear him communicate with navigation (to prepare for docking) then with the station (to request docking), and the station acknowledging the request.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

oasis1701
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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by oasis1701 » Sun, 5. Sep 21, 09:50

kuertee wrote:
Sat, 4. Sep 21, 16:06
i tested all the commands for both player and ai pilot before releasing the last bug-fix update.
but i'll test it again when i get back on this mod. i'm dividing my time between this, my other mod in the works (galactic council) and playing.

it takes several seconds for the ai pilot to walk from his (hidden) berth to the captain's chair.
the best way to test is to fly to a station yourself.
get up. wait for the ai captain.
he'll very likely greet you as he passes you by to get to the controls.
you'll hear him turn the control chair to face outwards.
then order him to dock.
the docking process is different when the ai captain does it: he'll actually fly to the dock, request permission, then dock.
you'll likely (but not always) hear him communicate with navigation (to prepare for docking) then with the station (to request docking), and the station acknowledging the request.
I have some info on how the bug is happening, hopefully it saves some of your time. I'll edit this post and attach a video as well.
1. when on a station, talk to a crew and hire them. using nav computer, choose your ship and click on captain to give them the role.
2. using the nav computer, enter the airlock of your ship. You'll begin manning the ship controls.
3. now release the controls by pressing control+d, or alternatively open nav computer and click on "let X crewman take controls" you can do this before or after undocking from the station.
4. you'll see that he/she won't come in to take the controls, they seem to be stuck
5. open nav computer, go to peoples tab and talk to your captain. assign him to a service crew role, then re-assign him to the captain role.
6. now he'll begin to man the controls when you release them! and they will fly for you/follow orders.
I don't know if this is a game bug or a mod bug. i'm on 4.0 by the way, so no beta.
going back to the original discussion we had on unknown gates and highways.
-The player is unable to auto pilot to them using nav computer. using the ship's auto pilot will make the ship fly without traveling mode
-The AI is able to fly to unknown gates/highways, using traveling mode.
It however would be great if you tag them all as known, so we could explore them ourselves without the AI if we wanted to per your own suggestion.
By the way, The AI doesn't like to use the traveling mode when the destination is like, 20-40 KM away from the ship! I googled and found out that this is most likely an issue with the game. or just the way the AI is implemented.

edit: The video that shows them not taking controls, but they do after re assignment. https://www.dropbox.com/s/y1co14bvm123b ... 4.mp4?dl=0

more edits: I've been playing the game for an hour or so. after re assigning the AI pilot and getting him to fly, when i take control of the ship and release it again, the bug happens, so i have to re assign him again.

kuertee
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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by kuertee » Mon, 6. Sep 21, 06:08

thank you. i'll check it out.

does this only happen on first-hire?
do you need to re-set his position from service crew to captain every time?
or only at this first instance?

i make sure that the "shortcuts" provided in the nav computer are not "cheats".
i.e. that their functions process the actions as the game normally would.
e.g. hiring an NPC ... selecting the location, then their position calls the same functions as the normal "hire / work somewhere else" menu.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

oasis1701
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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by oasis1701 » Mon, 6. Sep 21, 09:24

kuertee wrote:
Mon, 6. Sep 21, 06:08
thank you. i'll check it out.

does this only happen on first-hire?
do you need to re-set his position from service crew to captain every time?
or only at this first instance?

i make sure that the "shortcuts" provided in the nav computer are not "cheats".
i.e. that their functions process the actions as the game normally would.
e.g. hiring an NPC ... selecting the location, then their position calls the same functions as the normal "hire / work somewhere else" menu.

I think I found what is exactly causing this bug in the mod! So you know how there are two commands in the navigation computer. That will automatically put us in the captain's seat? "enter airlock of X ship" and "take the controls from X captain?" these commands, when executed, will cause the npc captain to bug out and get stuck. as if we're not asking them nicely to leave before manning the control ourselves.
If you try to man the controls without using the mod, this bug won't happen, and when you release the controls the npc will walk over and take the controls.

to answer your questions though, the bug happens for each hire, and you need to re assign him every time the npc bbugs out when those two commands i mentioned are used.

kuertee
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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by kuertee » Mon, 6. Sep 21, 09:42

Yeah, weird. That is not my experience. I used only the nav com when testing. I.e. I don’t use Ctrl-d to get up, nor do i manually walk to a transporter room, nor to the ship, to get back in the ship. Nor crew-a to autopilot, nor the normal undock menu to undock, etc.

I’ll have a look at it.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by CaplinCaplin » Mon, 6. Sep 21, 21:02

Hey,

I'm just chiming in to say that I've run into similar behavior myself. The key indicator seems to be audio, I hear my avatar get up, but none of the other audio I should; no greeting, no pilot settling in, etc. From that point none of the orders to the AI work, though I can at least take control back. The "reassign to service crew," fix does temporarily resolve things.

I should say that I'm running into this with a Discoverer, though I believe Oasis1701 has tried with at least one more ship class. I don't know if that matters, it seems weird.

Thanks for taking a look at this. For the record your council mod sounds intriguing and I hope to be able to look into it someday.

oasis1701
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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by oasis1701 » Thu, 9. Sep 21, 16:22

I might have stumbled into another bug
IT is a plot mission. i landed at the station that the npc is on, but when i want to talk to her, There's a radio static but nothing happens. i tried saving and re loading a couple of times just to make sure.
video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ix8rxt0mfm005 ... 0.mp4?dl=0

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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by kuertee » Thu, 9. Sep 21, 16:35

thank you. i'll find a solution for that.

that's a plot mission. and they start the story missions of the game. i suggest to defer from taking them.

and ... as i suspected, some npc conversations require the player to be in the same room as the npc.
that's my main reason for teleporting the player around the station during conversations.
the problem is that some rooms that npcs occupy are simply impossible to be teleported to.
hence in the last iteration of that feature, i force the video comm instead of letting the player "fall through the bottom of the 3d world" when teleportation fails.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by oasis1701 » Thu, 9. Sep 21, 17:13

Thank you kuertee
Speaking of missions, Another blind player -who doesn't have a forum account yet- Had a mission of patrolling mars. His mission needed him to fly past three satellites, the target mission however was the center of the system i believe.

I haven't found this sort of mission yet so i couldn't help him with that. told him to fly around and use the targetting system to look for satellites.

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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by kuertee » Thu, 9. Sep 21, 17:41

i've not played the terran missions yet, so have not seen that mission.
i assume it's a generic mission - rather than a "plot" mission.
although unlikely (but not impossible) the mission may not set those satellites as mission targets - requiring you to find them via the long-range scanner instead.
if so, the nav mission will never find those satellites.

the nav mission only finds ships, stations, gates, asteroids and mission targets.

if those satellites are not set as mission targets even after reactivating the mission, then tell him to delay doing it.
99% of the missions do not have a time limit, so they can be left alone without any reprecussions.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by oasis1701 » Fri, 10. Sep 21, 10:50

Will the nav computer show lockboxes and containers? in the points of interests tab, that is.
There's a mission that requires me to find a lockbox in a sector. the mission target is set to the middle of the system i think.

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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by kuertee » Fri, 10. Sep 21, 13:28

I remember testing lockbox missions. And they do set the lock boxes as mission targets, and so will be listed in the nav comp.

I’ll retest again tonight and fix ad release a quick update if not.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

kuertee
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Re: Serious Attempt to get into X4 as a Totally Blind Player

Post by kuertee » Fri, 10. Sep 21, 15:08

oasis1701 wrote:
i'm tagging both of you because i think i know what is happening with these "find missions".
ignore the quoted notifications above. it was the only way that i can find to tag you two in this message so that you get notified of it.

1. take a mission offer to fly to X (e.g. find lockbox, or fly to satellites, etc.)
2. the mission will activate. or activate a previous mission of the same type.

3. use Shift-a to autopilot to the mission area. (or ctrl-a, if shift-a doesn't work. i don't remember the keyboard shortcut.)
this will autopilot to the mission area THEN set your actual mission targets.

4. do not use the nav computer to autopilot to the sector because this will send you to the sector.
this is MY bug. its obvious now that i was using the method described in 3 in my tests.
i'm very sorry about sending you guys to a mission dead-end in unknown parts.
you can reactivate previous missions and autopilot to it without the use of the nav computer.

i'll fix this so that you CAN use the nav computer to do these missions in the next version.
Mods: RPG: Reputations and Professions, Social Standings and Citizenships, Crime has Consequences, Alternatives to Death. Missions/NPCs: Emergent Missions, NPC Reactions, Mod Parts Trader, High-sec Rooms are Locked, Hacking Outcomes, More Generic Missions, Waypoint Fields for Deployment. Others: Auto-cam, Friendly Fire Tweaks, Teleport From Transporter Room, Wear and Tear. QoL: Trade Analytics, Loot Mining, Ship Scanner, Signal Leak Hunter, Station Scanner, Surface Element Targeting, etc.

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