Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

This forum is the ideal place for all discussion relating to X4. You will also find additional information from developers here.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

Clownmug
Posts: 418
Joined: Wed, 11. Dec 13, 02:39
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by Clownmug » Sun, 1. Aug 21, 21:11

This seems like a problem for those people that build huge mega-complexes that do everything rather than building smaller specialized stations that have faster ROI.

flywlyx
Posts: 956
Joined: Sat, 15. May 21, 03:45
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by flywlyx » Mon, 2. Aug 21, 00:03

I would say the major issue here is because mining is free, So you are generating resource from void. Comparing to stations where you pay for resources to build and manufacture.

So the solution is easy, mining license/tax will easily crash mining profit and balance economic activities benifit.

RLSa
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon, 2. Jan 12, 05:15
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by RLSa » Mon, 2. Aug 21, 04:22

Well... If you Don't like stations, just don't own them.

I have built all of them, single stations buying raw material, miniplexes for construction, all the illegal spacegoods, megaplexes to throw ore and get Destroyers and even mining stations. All of them are high profitable. If want a multiplier, put the right amount of habitats. This simple thing can more then double your profits and be steady.

Always put traders to supply the Warfs and Shipyards. They are the end for the chain. Ships needs to be constructed to flow the faction production.

User avatar
grapedog
Posts: 2398
Joined: Sat, 21. Feb 04, 20:17
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by grapedog » Mon, 2. Aug 21, 05:33

I'm not sure what you're doing, or how you're doing it.... but even my least profitable factory makes a LOT more than my most profitable medium miner.

I'd say you're either setting up factories in a poor location, not building them very well, or don't have good trade options available through either lack of scouting or exploration, or lack of trade partners who want what you're building.

Like building a refined metals complex in Hewa's Twin is going to go very poorly for you.

furirkeeper
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun, 2. Dec 18, 10:32
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by furirkeeper » Mon, 2. Aug 21, 17:48

WiiWiesel wrote:
Sun, 1. Aug 21, 12:34
I would rather like to see, that the auto-miners get nerfed (maybe through taxes to the sector owner), so that the most profitable way to get money at the gamestart is through player actions (missions & boardings) instead of mass auto-miners & waiting.
I think taxes to sector owner is a good idea, it would not have to be much, just enough to make mining not being free money compared to other things. It would also make owning sectors much more interesting than it is today.

xant
Posts: 839
Joined: Sat, 21. Feb 04, 15:15
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by xant » Mon, 2. Aug 21, 18:29

Mining Licenses should be a thing, making it illegal to mine without a proper license. Would be actually a good way to balance security vs. profit in the early stages of a game, give you an incentive to actually own a sector and provide you with a tool to keep foreign miners out.

User avatar
Erqco
Posts: 618
Joined: Sun, 7. Nov 10, 14:43
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by Erqco » Mon, 2. Aug 21, 18:38

In the last 6 hours of game I got 300 millions only from one shipyard plus the ships that I ordered for myself. I don´t think that the factories are worthless.

User avatar
Tamina
Moderator (Deutsch)
Moderator (Deutsch)
Posts: 4543
Joined: Sun, 26. Jan 14, 09:56

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by Tamina » Mon, 2. Aug 21, 19:13

Some High-end products can generate losses if you are not careful and just slap some modules together. I.e. for Advanced Electronics productions, the price of Microchips is very high. You have to make sure to have an advantageous market situation with good supply, make sure you buy cheap and get some habitats going to increase profibility by a whole lot. Or build your own supply or do some market manipulation.
And I think this is the beauty of X4. THINK.

Silicon and Ore Refineries on the other hand are pure money printing machines out of the box.

Code: Select all

Und wenn ein Forenbösewicht, was Ungezogenes spricht, dann hol' ich meinen Kaktus und der sticht sticht sticht.
  /l、 
゙(゚、 。 7 
 l、゙ ~ヽ   / 
 じしf_, )ノ 

Panos
Posts: 848
Joined: Sat, 25. Oct 08, 00:48
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by Panos » Mon, 2. Aug 21, 22:00

abisha1980 wrote:
Sun, 1. Aug 21, 09:51
i have enough time on 4.0 to say loudly that personal build stations are kind of worthless
i don't know what the problem is but they simple not generate credits and the credits to create is so low it's easy compensated with a medium miner

i don't know what the problem is but they simple not worth having
a simple fix might be that the player get a modification build bonus modification of 4x or something that they can generate more goods for the amount of resources

or give this option in the research that players get more modifications on goods production
I have yet to see a station not printing money!!!!!!! :gruebel:

Even humble Protein Paste makes millions per hour!!!!

Do you build single product factories-stations or huge mega complexes?

Incinerator
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu, 27. Jul 06, 13:56
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by Incinerator » Tue, 3. Aug 21, 12:49

What you want to do is restrict the factories to get resources from only your miners, that way you don't get the money drain when it buys resources from npc's. So you might want to set up a solar power station, set it to sell to everyone, it will basicly print money, then you do repeat orders from your power station to your factory unless you built it with solar cells already.

You might want to do only "tier 1" to start with ie stuff that requires the basic resources to produce. Then when you got it set up and stable, you move on to higher end products requiring tier 1 one stuff you are already producing.

But first before you do all this you want to get your PHQ, and the blueprint hacking research done. Then you do the Hatikvah story line, that way you might get a few free blueprints from the stuff it has you do in the story line when you scan the stations for data leaks. There is a chance you get the blue prints without even having to EMP it. So when you have to emp a station in the story, pick a module like admin centre, habitat, or an expensive production module if possible. Then while you're just waiting for your miners and factories, pick a npc station fly around it looking for data leaks and there is chance you will unlock the blueprint.

Hopefully you've picked up a habitat blueprint, now when you build it in your factory the efficiency will increase as it populates so you make more product with the same amount of resources, well it requires some food and medicine though. This is it production bonus modifier...

Ezarkal
Posts: 1610
Joined: Wed, 22. Apr 15, 02:27
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by Ezarkal » Tue, 3. Aug 21, 17:11

You have to set your stations properly for them to profit quickly.
My best suggestion would be to manually reduce the maximum storage levels of whatever you want to sell (or simply build less storages). Here's why:

You have to take into account the fact that a station will set it's prices according to it's storage levels. Mathematically, price is inversely related to storage used / storage max.
-The lower the level, the higher the sell price and the less sales you make.
-The higher the level, the lower is the price and the more you sell.
(That is unless there's a hard shortage in what you produce, at which point your wares will sell like hotcakes even at the highest price.)
I always found that stations were more profitable with the second scenario, low prices but more sells. This means, if you want to sell some stuff, you have to keep you storage used / storage max high. So either increase your production (expensive approach) or reduce your maximum storage (easily to do via the station's logistic panel).

The only stations where I use massive amounts of storages are the stations I use to supply my own chains and station building. I want some buffer, and NPCs are not allowed to trade with them anyway.

Of course, there's always a question of where your station is and how's the market of the nearby sectors. That's where you have to scout, observe and think a bit.
Humans are deuterostomes, which means that when they develop in the womb the first opening they develop is the anus.
This means that at one point you were nothing but an asshole.

Some people never develop beyond this stage.

User avatar
grapedog
Posts: 2398
Joined: Sat, 21. Feb 04, 20:17
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by grapedog » Tue, 3. Aug 21, 19:07

Incinerator wrote:
Tue, 3. Aug 21, 12:49
What you want to do is restrict the factories to get resources from only your miners, that way you don't get the money drain when it buys resources from npc's.
You can block NPC's from selling raw resources to your stations, but that is a pretty minor amount of money. If your station is making say 5-7 million an hour, do you really care if you're spending maybe 300k-500k an hour buying resources at rock bottom prices from NPC's to keep resource stock levels high? You could also just buy additional ships if you wanted to, to cover what the NPC's do occasionally bring to sell your station... but that's just more ships you are running and taking care of and replacing. 99% of my stations buy resources at base cost +1 credit from the NPC's, because the cost of them doing the work for your station is very minor to the amount of profits you generate.

I'm not saying to rely on NPC miners alone... but in addition to a stations own miners, NPC's can fill in the little gaps that might crop up from time to time, if they meet that low low price.

Personally I'd much rather spend half a mill an hour to make sure all my resource needs are being met, in case my own ships run into some difficulties or something odd happens, my stations won't stop running/producing... making the real profits.

RodentofDoom
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat, 27. Feb 16, 09:37
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by RodentofDoom » Thu, 5. Aug 21, 10:43

Don't use automatic pricing.
Set the buy price at the midpoint between Minimum and Average
Set the sell price at the midpoint between Average and Maximum

Don't use Default Global settings exclusively
Create 3 Trade Rules
- Internal only
- Ally only
- Default

Create Civilian Travel/Activity Rule(s)
- Blacklist Hostile Sectors
- Blacklist Hostile Factions
- etc

Are you producing items that are wanted where they are wanted.
A market 6 Sectors away is out of range.

You need less storage than you think.
1 Large Container will support a Shipyard with 2x L/XL modules (4).

User avatar
Botschafter Von Den Glück
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu, 28. Sep 17, 11:32
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by Botschafter Von Den Glück » Tue, 10. Aug 21, 22:42

I understand, when a player just wants a quick trip through the universe, search for its secrets, a single factory is too slight water to dip.
its not worth, to build only small bit stations, they make a bit money in loong time, but for that, you just invested at least a million credits and 2 hours of playtime,
so to get it back, you need to "PLAY" the game 10 more hours, just to get to zero again.(for a new player its the buy into the game those 10 hours easily)
thats a bit trappy,
because you cage catch yourself into the future, and you did not say what to do in future, but the game knows, ok we programmed like a stock market, come back next year to get your benefits...

but if you dont play that time, it will never happen.

and also, you are FORCED to make stations you dont have the freedom of x3. yes. let x4 be focused on station empire, I think thats the try the devs want.
the only problem is the AI, of traders, of fighters, of the Factions.
the far end of the universe... just travel it!
Botschafter von den Glücksplaneten: Zu 100% Doktor. Die vertrauen mir!

RLSa
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon, 2. Jan 12, 05:15
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by RLSa » Tue, 10. Aug 21, 23:55

Botschafter Von Den Glück wrote:
Tue, 10. Aug 21, 22:42
and also, you are FORCED to make stations you dont have the freedom of x3. yes. let x4 be focused on station empire, I think thats the try the devs want.
the only problem is the AI, of traders, of fighters, of the Factions.
the far end of the universe... just travel it!
I think you can be profitable just with piracy... A large fleet can be stolen way faster than bought at start.
That's something I need to try...

Sound19
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon, 31. Dec 18, 01:14
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by Sound19 » Wed, 11. Aug 21, 06:20

grapedog wrote:
Mon, 2. Aug 21, 05:33
Like building a refined metals complex in Hewa's Twin is going to go very poorly for you.
LOL I did that. But, problem solved with a mining outpost and some extra ships to shuttle the product back. There's definitely worse places to set up shop....

User avatar
Botschafter Von Den Glück
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu, 28. Sep 17, 11:32
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by Botschafter Von Den Glück » Thu, 19. Aug 21, 05:13

what you want with stations is to have a central infrasturcture to settle into the game.
The one main frequent post you be playing from.
there must always be a central unit, that is "vital" enough to supply every ongoing.

if that unit is not a feature IN the game, the point goes through the screen to the PLAYER.
HE must supply then, be the main infrastructure.

But computer games are made like a james for the captain:
To help the captain with doing so.

but the features of the captain are not recognized, so the captain is missing.

you cannot make a think like huge country with just some very far away connected main routes, that are holding just a network of an ant state.
thats for ants, not for people.

the difference is main important. without that, start not develop any game.
Its not the opinion about x, but X itself is vital.

---
i dont feel comfortable to be "lost" all the time for too long time.
the word of the king is not movable all the time. you must stick with it.
If you were e.g. a turned around station leader, doing "illegal" trade, then its always because the main faction is missing something
that is the reason why the turned around station corrupted.
there is a process to interact from corrupted/ "core" faction"
Botschafter von den Glücksplaneten: Zu 100% Doktor. Die vertrauen mir!

Y-llian
Posts: 484
Joined: Tue, 16. Jan 07, 21:46
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by Y-llian » Mon, 23. Aug 21, 01:04

WiiWiesel wrote:
Sun, 1. Aug 21, 12:34


I would rather like to see, that the auto-miners get nerfed (maybe through taxes to the sector owner), so that the most profitable way to get money at the gamestart is through player actions (missions & boardings) instead of mass auto-miners & waiting.
Respectfully, no. I prefer to play the game economy, I have no interest in missions (except plot stories) or boarding. Mining has been rebalanced/nerfed/modified numerous times (including in the recent beta) since launch. No more please…

Dreamora
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue, 6. Dec 05, 15:41
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by Dreamora » Sat, 28. Aug 21, 23:12

abisha1980 wrote:
Sun, 1. Aug 21, 09:51
i have enough time on 4.0 to say loudly that personal build stations are kind of worthless
i don't know what the problem is but they simple not generate credits and the credits to create is so low it's easy compensated with a medium miner

i don't know what the problem is but they simple not worth having
a simple fix might be that the player get a modification build bonus modification of 4x or something that they can generate more goods for the amount of resources

or give this option in the research that players get more modifications on goods production
Building stations is not about earning credits, it's about expanding resource access to regions of space. Once you get your own faction up and running you don't really need credits except to buy blueprints which you can technically just steal if you want.

There are some really good station configurations that do make a ton of credits, but that isn't the primary reason they exist.

Dreamora
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue, 6. Dec 05, 15:41
x4

Re: Player build stations "they worthless" personal eperience

Post by Dreamora » Sat, 28. Aug 21, 23:15

WiiWiesel wrote:
Sun, 1. Aug 21, 12:34
I would rather like to see, that the auto-miners get nerfed (maybe through taxes to the sector owner), so that the most profitable way to get money at the gamestart is through player actions (missions & boardings) instead of mass auto-miners & waiting.
So what you are saying is that instead of you taking personal responsibility of your own actions and going off to do something else to make credits instead of being lazy and waiting for auto-miners etc to earn money, you would rather the developers forced this gameplay style on everyone so that you don't have to be responsible for making a simple decision?

Post Reply

Return to “X4: Foundations”