[4.1r]For old player's huge time cost the budget(Cr) given by Custom Game Start are too few

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Treycore
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Re: [4.1r]For old player's huge time cost the budget(Cr) given by Custom Game Start are too few

Post by Treycore » Mon, 20. Sep 21, 22:45

Imperial Good wrote:
Mon, 20. Sep 21, 21:50
Treycore wrote:
Mon, 20. Sep 21, 21:43
What’s the point in playing if you already have everything?
It depends on what you want to achieve by playing. Since X4 does not have multiplayer there will be a finite amount of time you can spend on it before you have done everything you want to do. New DLCs, patches and even third party mods add more content but ultimately that is the what will limit how much time can be spent based on what you choose to achieve. If all you want to do is get all achievements, then once you have them there is no point in playing anymore, at least until more are added (usually every DLC). You could also challenge yourself and do playthroughs such as supporting HOP to global domination against the unbelievers, or TER only to destroy or control the common wealth, the choice is really up to you. If you get bored with vanilla there are also third party total overhaul mods like VRO you can try which offer new views and experiences.
Which is why I’m playing devils advocate and saying why would you want to start the game with everything? You can play a mod for that

Don’t get me wrong… it’s fun rolling up with a massive fleet and curbstomping the AI the first few times but ultimately the main part of the game is the build up to the point of where you can challenge the AI or getting closer to your personal goals

The most fun I’ve had in any game are games where things don’t go as planned or I’m facing a setback and clawing my way back

It just seems more and more like the X4 community is just an exodus of the same miners that I used to gank in Eve online, it’s the same mindset of “I just want to go afk and accumulate credits”

I run the parallel to eve because, credit generation without risk is just boring/unhealthy gameplay and the way the economy is setup, destruction and loss are paramount to a healthy economy

You can already have a peaceful run by setting up in Silent Witness, nopileos fortune, heretics end, or even empire space, if that’s your jam but the economy needs to move whether that’s through player actions or NPC’s moving the market (which is mainly destruction)

Imperial Good
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Re: [4.1r]For old player's huge time cost the budget(Cr) given by Custom Game Start are too few

Post by Imperial Good » Tue, 21. Sep 21, 00:56

Treycore wrote:
Mon, 20. Sep 21, 22:45
Which is why I’m playing devils advocate and saying why would you want to start the game with everything? You can play a mod for that
For ventures when they come back. Also it allows you to customise how your character looks as it can produce unmodified saves.

sh4l0m
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Re: [4.1r]For old player's huge time cost the budget(Cr) given by Custom Game Start are too few

Post by sh4l0m » Tue, 21. Sep 21, 02:49

Imperial Good wrote:
Mon, 20. Sep 21, 21:50
Treycore wrote:
Mon, 20. Sep 21, 21:43
What’s the point in playing if you already have everything?
It depends on what you want to achieve by playing. Since X4 does not have multiplayer there will be a finite amount of time you can spend on it before you have done everything you want to do. New DLCs, patches and even third party mods add more content but ultimately that is the what will limit how much time can be spent based on what you choose to achieve. If all you want to do is get all achievements, then once you have them there is no point in playing anymore, at least until more are added (usually every DLC). You could also challenge yourself and do playthroughs such as supporting HOP to global domination against the unbelievers, or TER only to destroy or control the common wealth, the choice is really up to you. If you get bored with vanilla there are also third party total overhaul mods like VRO you can try which offer new views and experiences.

No it doesn't. For some players the fact of being limited and expanding those limitations is the raison d'joue, it's quite facile, but for such players access to (virtually) unlimited resources in itself makes the process feel pointless.

This phenomenon did not suddenly appear with the invention of steam achievements, indeed steam achievements are an attempt at mitigating such ennui by 'imposing' new limitations & goals within those limitations.
It is, basically, just not true to say that giving players more options is better, because some of those options negatively impact the playing experience of players who, essentially, need a sense of being limited (by external forces eg environment/devs) to feel that playing is worthwhile.

hxsgame
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Re: [4.1r]For old player's huge time cost the budget(Cr) given by Custom Game Start are too few

Post by hxsgame » Tue, 21. Sep 21, 04:39

Imperial Good wrote:
Mon, 20. Sep 21, 21:50
……
You could also challenge yourself and do playthroughs such as supporting HOP to global domination against the unbelievers, or TER only to destroy or control the common wealth, the choice is really up to you. If you get bored with vanilla there are also third party total overhaul mods like VRO you can try which offer new views and experiences.
Yes!

I think it is much more enjoyable to operate/play these elements than to get them, just like programming languages and programing, or bricks and building.

As far as I am concerned, I don't think getting the element is the meaning of the this game.

So I hope to collect them once, and then I can start flying my imagination by them at will.

hxsgame
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Re: [4.1r]For old player's huge time cost the budget(Cr) given by Custom Game Start are too few

Post by hxsgame » Tue, 21. Sep 21, 04:42

Treycore wrote:
Mon, 20. Sep 21, 22:45

Which is why I’m playing devils advocate and saying why would you want to start the game with everything?
It is not everything…
It is begining, it's bricks.

hxsgame
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Re: [4.1r]For old player's huge time cost the budget(Cr) given by Custom Game Start are too few

Post by hxsgame » Tue, 21. Sep 21, 04:50

sh4l0m wrote:
Tue, 21. Sep 21, 02:49

No it doesn't. For some players the fact of being limited and expanding those limitations is the raison d'joue, it's quite facile, but for such players access to (virtually) unlimited resources in itself makes the process feel pointless.
Players will only get what was ther previously saves.
not unlimited.

Moreover, if the player takes collection as the game goal, he may not use the old saves at all.

The problem now is that I want to avoid repeated collection, and I want to play these elements in a clean(no accumulate old bugs) new game, but I have no choice.

NightmareNight91
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Re: [4.1r]For old player's huge time cost the budget(Cr) given by Custom Game Start are too few

Post by NightmareNight91 » Wed, 22. Sep 21, 18:00

Best Ive seen to do is to start with all plots complete as they are tedious and boring. Give myself a cheap as possible ship, all station modules of my choice, and a ton of spacefly eggs and seta parts to craft caviar and seta to sell to buy a wharf blueprint. Money prints itself after about 1 hour of setup.

Eyeklops
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Re: [4.1r]For old player's huge time cost the budget(Cr) given by Custom Game Start are too few

Post by Eyeklops » Wed, 22. Sep 21, 19:35

NightmareNight91 wrote:
Wed, 22. Sep 21, 18:00
Best Ive seen to do is to start with all plots complete as they are tedious and boring. Give myself a cheap as possible ship, all station modules of my choice, and a ton of spacefly eggs and seta parts to craft caviar and seta to sell to buy a wharf blueprint. Money prints itself after about 1 hour of setup.
I don't think SETA can be sold. Substitute SETA components for Sedative, Needles, & Bandages to make First Aid Kits.

NightmareNight91
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Re: [4.1r]For old player's huge time cost the budget(Cr) given by Custom Game Start are too few

Post by NightmareNight91 » Wed, 22. Sep 21, 21:19

Eyeklops wrote:
Wed, 22. Sep 21, 19:35
NightmareNight91 wrote:
Wed, 22. Sep 21, 18:00
Best Ive seen to do is to start with all plots complete as they are tedious and boring. Give myself a cheap as possible ship, all station modules of my choice, and a ton of spacefly eggs and seta parts to craft caviar and seta to sell to buy a wharf blueprint. Money prints itself after about 1 hour of setup.
I don't think SETA can be sold. Substitute SETA components for Sedative, Needles, & Bandages to make First Aid Kits.
I meant starting out with the parts to craft seta so you dont have to hunt them down and its cheaper on the budget to start with parts than it is to start with seta itself.

humility925
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Re: [4.1r]For old player's huge time cost the budget(Cr) given by Custom Game Start are too few

Post by humility925 » Fri, 24. Sep 21, 06:43

sh4l0m wrote:
Tue, 21. Sep 21, 02:49
Imperial Good wrote:
Mon, 20. Sep 21, 21:50
Treycore wrote:
Mon, 20. Sep 21, 21:43
What’s the point in playing if you already have everything?
It depends on what you want to achieve by playing. Since X4 does not have multiplayer there will be a finite amount of time you can spend on it before you have done everything you want to do. New DLCs, patches and even third party mods add more content but ultimately that is the what will limit how much time can be spent based on what you choose to achieve. If all you want to do is get all achievements, then once you have them there is no point in playing anymore, at least until more are added (usually every DLC). You could also challenge yourself and do playthroughs such as supporting HOP to global domination against the unbelievers, or TER only to destroy or control the common wealth, the choice is really up to you. If you get bored with vanilla there are also third party total overhaul mods like VRO you can try which offer new views and experiences.

No it doesn't. For some players the fact of being limited and expanding those limitations is the raison d'joue, it's quite facile, but for such players access to (virtually) unlimited resources in itself makes the process feel pointless.

This phenomenon did not suddenly appear with the invention of steam achievements, indeed steam achievements are an attempt at mitigating such ennui by 'imposing' new limitations & goals within those limitations.
It is, basically, just not true to say that giving players more options is better, because some of those options negatively impact the playing experience of players who, essentially, need a sense of being limited (by external forces eg environment/devs) to feel that playing is worthwhile.
Custom game start with no old save game had a same rule as normal game start, but once budgeted game started already higher allowed, achievement already unlocked due in old game from normal gamestart, and good chance you already done with achievement when budgeted game started already high level allowed you to fresh start in new way, same for plot story, it's locked in budgeted game till you are done story in old game saved to unlock those plot in budgeted,

Budgeted gave good chance to start new story, so go on, and player do not had to max what budgeted gamestart, it's gave option, within limited and reasonable, who said you had to max out budgeted allow? You can do less than what budgeted allowed, it's up to player to create and do what they wish, rather than enforced on other player and player don't find that is fun, since fun is not same to everyone, but that what budgeted gamestart is awsome, let player choice whatever they wish depend on what they did or didn't do in old gamestart achievement in the first place. It's gave more freedom, and more fun to play that way, sometime enforced on one's person point of view trying to forced other player to follow their rule isn't fun. That's why we had budgeted and creative gamestart (I think it's full allowed, even may offer more option than budgeted, even Budgeted don't had all kind of ship like asgard, other plot reward, so go on, I think.)
Had a compassionate when you able... :)

sh4l0m
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue, 21. Sep 21, 02:23

Re: [4.1r]For old player's huge time cost the budget(Cr) given by Custom Game Start are too few

Post by sh4l0m » Sun, 26. Sep 21, 01:51

It's not an argument, what I said is simply true.
You can be of the opinion that such players with such motivations don't matter, or should feel differently. Or that such motivations must be balanced against the motivations of others, or whatever. The creative start allows anything and everything though so this is already achieved.

A budget is a budget, when you have effectively unlimited funds, this is not a budget.
hxsgame wrote:
Tue, 21. Sep 21, 04:50

Players will only get what was ther previously saves.
not unlimited.

Moreover, if the player takes collection as the game goal, he may not use the old saves at all.

The problem now is that I want to avoid repeated collection, and I want to play these elements in a clean(no accumulate old bugs) new game, but I have no choice.

So, do you also want to replay ff7 but with all materia & items already collected? Maybe you do, but maybe you also understand that just giving players the option can ruin the motivation to bother playing.
Humility925 there talks about people 'forcing others' which is ironic. Really, really ironic. In several ways. If you try and build some moral argument about why you should be given what you want when you know others explicitly do not want that, well, this is very plainly trying to force the issue (over the wishes of others, and the status quo.) You could just say 'this is what I want' and 'I agree' & leave it at that. Having said all that, it's "late" and I rly may be parsing what Humility is saying badly. If so.. apo's.

Having said all that ofc, what the devs do is what the devs do.

hxsgame
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu, 4. Oct 18, 16:54
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Re: [4.1r]For old player's huge time cost the budget(Cr) given by Custom Game Start are too few

Post by hxsgame » Sun, 26. Sep 21, 08:56

sh4l0m wrote:
Sun, 26. Sep 21, 01:51
……

Having said all that ofc, what the devs do is what the devs do.
Yes, I will be use mod. that is my space.

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