Xenon Ship Redesigns

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Treycore
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Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by Treycore » Fri, 17. Sep 21, 22:43

I think the Xenon fleets need another look at… The S/M class ships are just plain meh, I think the P, could use a few more turrets attached to it

The fighters are just there to have fun to blow up, dangerous only in a swarm, but it would be nice to have a couple stronger fighters in their arsenal

Now… The Xenon capitals… they are absolutely imposing and beautiful too look at but wayyyyy too easy to defang, they flat out need more turrets and lower repair times for turrets or better shielding for the turrets

I can’t remember the last time that I had a crazy fight where the Xenon capitals really did anything other then sit there and be a bullet sponge

Imperial Good
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by Imperial Good » Sat, 18. Sep 21, 01:31

More powerful might not be healthy for the universe since it would mean factions struggle more to deal with them. Ultimately the universe should remain relatively stable without user interaction. The Xenon certainly should not end up conquering the universe.

Treycore
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by Treycore » Sat, 18. Sep 21, 01:52

Imperial Good wrote:
Sat, 18. Sep 21, 01:31
More powerful might not be healthy for the universe since it would mean factions struggle more to deal with them. Ultimately the universe should remain relatively stable without user interaction. The Xenon certainly should not end up conquering the universe.
They don’t have to conquer the galaxy, I just want them to be able to shoot back, they’re usually defanged by the time I show up or get defanged really quickly and I don’t get too see the fireworks

adeine
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by adeine » Sat, 18. Sep 21, 04:12

Imperial Good wrote:
Sat, 18. Sep 21, 01:31
More powerful might not be healthy for the universe since it would mean factions struggle more to deal with them. Ultimately the universe should remain relatively stable without user interaction. The Xenon certainly should not end up conquering the universe.
I think there should be the option for a challenge if the player so desires. Not a lot of fun if the Xenon can't put up a fight or pose a serious threat to other factions in the universe.

A good solution without implementing different settings or overly complicating things would be to have a mission series/storyline that is kind of like the hub plot, allowing you to activate a jump gate that leads to high production Xenon space with an established fleet to jumpstart things. Doing so could even readjust the numbers on the Xenon faction, allowing them to build bigger fleets and expand without spreading themselves too thin elsewhere as well.

Right now, artificial limitations really seem to have killed the dynamic nature of X4's universe.

Malchar
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by Malchar » Sat, 18. Sep 21, 04:30

Imperial Good wrote:
Sat, 18. Sep 21, 01:31
More powerful might not be healthy for the universe since it would mean factions struggle more to deal with them. Ultimately the universe should remain relatively stable without user interaction. The Xenon certainly should not end up conquering the universe.
I dont think, nor heard, people asked xenons to be an irresistible strengh made to rule to world.

Imo a situation balanced like it was at the v3.0 or skightky earlier would be enough.

NightmareNight91
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by NightmareNight91 » Sat, 18. Sep 21, 13:17

Imperial Good wrote:
Sat, 18. Sep 21, 01:31
More powerful might not be healthy for the universe since it would mean factions struggle more to deal with them. Ultimately the universe should remain relatively stable without user interaction. The Xenon certainly should not end up conquering the universe.
God forbid anything present a challenge in this game am i right lol...the xenon should absolutely conquer large portions of the galaxy, they are supposed to be the big baddies, a major threat, not everyones punching bag...

Buzz2005
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by Buzz2005 » Sat, 18. Sep 21, 14:16

exactly, what is the point of this simulated economy if its all static until you choose to change it, and what is the point of xenons if they are just there doing nothing, defying lore and bringing 0 gameplay to it
Fixed ships getting spawned away from ship configuration menu at resupply ships from automatically getting deployables.

Tomonor
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by Tomonor » Sat, 18. Sep 21, 15:53

One thing that might be worth looking at is that Xenon fighters are pure AI - meaning that they are not bound by G forces and that by their computer brain, they should be able to calculate out their needs for victory precisely.
Image

Imperial Good
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by Imperial Good » Sat, 18. Sep 21, 16:38

I think the solution would be to fix gun hit roll logic so main batteries can miss. The only reason the factions do so well against the Xenon is that their destroyers melt the Xenon fighters and keep hitting the Xenon capitals after losing all their turrets due to their main batteries never being destroyed and never missing in low attention.

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mr.WHO
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by mr.WHO » Sat, 18. Sep 21, 17:07

IMO before changes of existing ships, Xenons need to plug the holes in their ship set:
- proper XL Carrier
- proper L Destroyer
- L Freighter/Miner
- 6-turret gunboat (like Jian)

LameFox
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by LameFox » Sat, 18. Sep 21, 17:14

mr.WHO wrote:
Sat, 18. Sep 21, 17:07
IMO before changes of existing ships, Xenons need to plug the holes in their ship set:
- proper XL Carrier
- proper L Destroyer
- L Freighter/Miner
- 6-turret gunboat (like Jian)
They are also missing a heavy fighter I believe? Something like the old L could be brought back to fill the role. Currently none of their small ships seem particularly durable.
***modified***

Buzz2005
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by Buzz2005 » Sat, 18. Sep 21, 18:53

just 1 proper xenon L destroyer with front guns would solve a lot of our needs
Fixed ships getting spawned away from ship configuration menu at resupply ships from automatically getting deployables.

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mr.WHO
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by mr.WHO » Sat, 18. Sep 21, 19:30

LameFox wrote:
Sat, 18. Sep 21, 17:14
mr.WHO wrote:
Sat, 18. Sep 21, 17:07
IMO before changes of existing ships, Xenons need to plug the holes in their ship set:
- proper XL Carrier
- proper L Destroyer
- L Freighter/Miner
- 6-turret gunboat (like Jian)
They are also missing a heavy fighter I believe? Something like the old L could be brought back to fill the role. Currently none of their small ships seem particularly durable.
Yep, I wonder why they didn't ported LX from X3.

dholmstr
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by dholmstr » Mon, 20. Sep 21, 12:13

I think just adding a lot more HP to turrets in general would go a long way for all capitals. On top of that, add more repair for Xenon capital components. Better M-shields (or just more slots for shields) is also possible. This change would change the M class ships to more robust, they do take much more hits than S-class anyways.
Maybe make Xenon N cheaper so that they actually would be used as swarms? Bringing back the L fighter with a Missile launcher might be interesting.

Imperial Good
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by Imperial Good » Mon, 20. Sep 21, 12:35

mr.WHO wrote:
Sat, 18. Sep 21, 19:30
Yep, I wonder why they didn't ported LX from X3.
They would need to remake it which, like all ships, is a lot of work.

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mr.WHO
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by mr.WHO » Mon, 20. Sep 21, 13:29

Imperial Good wrote:
Mon, 20. Sep 21, 12:35
mr.WHO wrote:
Sat, 18. Sep 21, 19:30
Yep, I wonder why they didn't ported LX from X3.
They would need to remake it which, like all ships, is a lot of work.
No it's not - they already have Xenon M (which is in fact Xenon L from X3), to get an LX you just need to slab two of them together at 90 degree - it kinda looks like dual nose.
That's not much of an effort, but simple kitbash:


https://roguey.co.uk/x3ap/ships/ship-171/
https://roguey.co.uk/x3ap/ships/ship-172/

NightmareNight91
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by NightmareNight91 » Wed, 22. Sep 21, 21:28

Imperial Good wrote:
Mon, 20. Sep 21, 12:35
mr.WHO wrote:
Sat, 18. Sep 21, 19:30
Yep, I wonder why they didn't ported LX from X3.
They would need to remake it which, like all ships, is a lot of work.
No they dont, the M and N are exact copies (M is actually L though) from x3. No need for cockpits, proper landing gear, internals or anything.

Imperial Good
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by Imperial Good » Wed, 22. Sep 21, 21:45

NightmareNight91 wrote:
Wed, 22. Sep 21, 21:28
No they dont, the M and N are exact copies (M is actually L though) from x3. No need for cockpits, proper landing gear, internals or anything.
I am pretty sure they are from XR which had them reworked to be supported. Even if the meshes can be ported they still need to be rigged and simply porting meshes might not result in a high quality end product.

Malchar
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by Malchar » Wed, 22. Sep 21, 21:46

dholmstr wrote:
Mon, 20. Sep 21, 12:13
Better M-shields (or just more slots for shields) is also possible.
For xenons capital ships, just fill the numerous empty slots would be a good start.

Panos
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Re: Xenon Ship Redesigns

Post by Panos » Thu, 23. Sep 21, 01:25

Imperial Good wrote:
Wed, 22. Sep 21, 21:45
NightmareNight91 wrote:
Wed, 22. Sep 21, 21:28
No they dont, the M and N are exact copies (M is actually L though) from x3. No need for cockpits, proper landing gear, internals or anything.
I am pretty sure they are from XR which had them reworked to be supported. Even if the meshes can be ported they still need to be rigged and simply porting meshes might not result in a high quality end product.
I wonder if we as community do the leg work and design (or port from X3 designs) Xenon ships, fully functional, if they are well balanced why not Egosoft add them in the game and had to play with modified flag?

Btw the main issue with the Xenon capital ships are
a) the missing modules, especially M shields.
b) turrets get damaged by explosions easily. A post in relation to this
https://www.reddit.com/r/X4Foundations/ ... his_k_has/

When started playing in 2019, the Xenon were pushing hard, especially the "I" was a threat destroying few stations per sector. Now this is not the case.
The Faulty Logic gates were almost constantly swarmed by Ks, Ps and Ms. One time was near the gate in the HOP sector, in the space suit while opening the vault. Had to hide inside the vault/station to avoid been killed by the swarm, while my 2 corvettes had time to arrive. (hadn't researched teleportation yet)
It was an experience and hairy moment. But was fun.

Started with 4.10 a new game last night and cannot kill 9 Xenon ships in the HOP sectors. If one crosses over from Faulty Logic is obliterated.
There are no Xenon!!!

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