Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

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Alm888
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by Alm888 » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 08:01

xant wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:30
Okay, so do I understand you correctly that your recommendation for a beginner is to use a small fighter…
Correct. It has the maximum chances at actually escaping trouble.
xant wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:30
…to solo 20 fighters and 50 drones?
That's a task for future. Not for beginners. But it is possible fith an S-class. Not so much with an M-class.
xant wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:30
What's next, maybe "go board an Asgard, it's easy, I do it all the time"?
Now that' you've mentioned it, yes, it is easy. Time-consuming (getting all the crew to bail), but easy. I would not recommend it for beginners though. Because of my next reason.
xant wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:30
For peaceful players, those who just started playing the game and only want a safe way to fly around, explore and maybe do a little bit of fighting, there's nothing better than a Corvette.
No, that's fundamentally wrong. Peaceful players have no use for corvette's firepower. What they want is speed and versatility. To travel fast and comfortably. To be able to easily dock with any station or ship, doing "taxi" missions.
Hence, a good scout (Pegasus Vanguard) is ideal. A corvette is just plain dumb choice.
xant wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:30
It (vaunted Nemesis) is faster than many fighters…
With piss-poor dynamics.
xant wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:30
…has enough firepower to solo most missions or random Kha'ak or Xenon encounters…
A Pegasus also has enough firepower to solo a stray M, N or Hive Guard. And we are talking peaceful players. Not the kind to assault the hive or protect mining ships.
xant wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 21:30
and is sturdy enough not to go boom after a few (inevitable) hits.
Nothing is gonna boom after a few hits. And in case of S-class vs. Graviton Turrets… Yeah, like a peaceful player should be anywhere near a K or an I. Not to mention, they won't hit, ever.

DEL 707
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by DEL 707 » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 13:52

Again, thanks for the help.

Loaded out my Nemesis with 4 Bolt Repeaters and an Ion Blaster, then put some Flak on the turrets.
I am absolutely destroying Xenon N's and M's now!

Talking of the Xenon, the Teladi are having a bit of a problem at the moment.

https://i.imgur.com/sOfZGFA.jpg

I took out a crap ton of defence drones but they just kept coming.
At this stage in the game, is there anyway I can realistically help?

[Vastly oversize image replaced with link. You should check the forum rules for image size limitations. Thanks, Nanook]

Panos
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by Panos » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:12

jlehtone wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 07:52
Panos wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 22:42
There is a single solution ti resolve ALL this and always fly the favourite vessel.

Send the ships required to the location and teleport to them after they arrive :lol:
Your solution to "I can barely afford two ships, how to choose" is "fill every sector with all kinds of ships and get teleport research done at your PHQ" :?

Eventually yes, but not for a "young gun" now.


Besides, teleporting is for trekkies. Real men tap-dance through Kha'ak fire in a suit ... :roll:
Taking a responce out of context? Challenge accepted. :mrgreen:

a) When you can afford teleportation and corvettes you can afford scouts/courriers/s miners. Which was my responce direct to.

b) Young Gun starts the game with +5 ships available from the get go. (not including the Ody or the Drill)
Your starter ship,
Spoiler
Show
the Elite in GE1, the Perseus in SW12, Courier in NF2 and the frigate from the PHQ mission. Usually PHQ is not a pre-requisite to do the HAT storyline so you get another courrier ship there by just speaking to an NPC from the start of the game.
So 5 ships. If you cannot make enough money to buy at least scouts and S miner within the first hour then doing something wrong.
Hell can make 2-3mil within 10 minutes if you go to Flashpoint 2 and collect the drops from the HOP vs ANT/ARG conflict. Plenty of Interface Units and the parts needed to make SETA.

And ofc can grab an unlimited amount of S and M ships if you put few antimmater cells in your cargo from the pirates. The ones you get from the PHQ explosion are enough. (usually 1-2 out of the 3 needed). And usually making 600K from stripping the Elite and send it to explode plus the money Boso Ta gives you.

Same applies to the Paranid start which you start with the same position as the Young Gun and the PIO, FRF, ZYA starts too.
Last edited by Panos on Thu, 7. Oct 21, 21:00, edited 1 time in total.

xant
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by xant » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:15

DEL 707 wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 13:52
I took out a crap ton of defence drones but they just kept coming.
At this stage in the game, is there anyway I can realistically help?
Depends on the risk you're willing to take.

What makes defense stations (well, all Xenon stations and capital ships) so dangerous are the Graviton L turrets. They absolutely shred everything they hit, but their range is limited (around 5.5 km). The AI has a hard time dealing with them, unlike you as a player. You can exploit blind spots, fly and shoot from the right angle etc.

Manage to destroy them and the station is more or less defenseless against Teladi destroyers. But as you already noticed, there are drones and also many other turrets if you come too close. The better way is to get your own destroyer, but even then destroying Xenon stations takes a while.

Realistically I'd stay away from the Xenon and come back again when you're better equipped to deal with them. The Teladi won't die, don't you worry. They may lose a few stations and a sector or two, but they'll come back.

Eyeklops
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by Eyeklops » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:43

Panos wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:12
b) Young Gun starts the game with +5 ships available from the get go
You should probably spoiler tag some of this.

Panos
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by Panos » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:48

Eyeklops wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:43
Panos wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:12
b) Young Gun starts the game with +5 ships available from the get go
You should probably spoiler tag some of this.
This is 2018 news!!!!!!!

jlehtone
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 16:20

Panos wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:12
b) Young Gun starts the game with +5 ships available from the get go. (not including the Ody or the Drill)
I chose Untested Explorer, because I assumed that Discoverer is worse ship than Young Gun's Elite. That is apparently not true.

As for the abandoned ones, I don't even try to find them. If I do, not claim them. (Did take Perseus. It and some captured Kestrels and Discos died in Xenon fun.) As for the plots, I'm not worthy to start any plot yet.

Sure, if you know the "facts" then everything is easy; there is no exploration, just grind. No "Gee, what is that shiny? Bang! THE END" (For some reason I'm convinced that that incident was in BHS, but on revisits there is no such thing. Must have been a different sector.)
Goner Pancake Protector X
Insanity included at no extra charge.
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Eyeklops
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by Eyeklops » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 16:24

Panos wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:48
Eyeklops wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:43
Panos wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:12
b) Young Gun starts the game with +5 ships available from the get go
You should probably spoiler tag some of this.
This is 2018 news!!!!!!!
It's not about the age of the news but whether or not it should be something discovered by a new player in game vs accidentally in the non-spoiler section of the forums. The spoiler tag is easy to use and with the way your post is written if you only obfuscate the names & locations of the ships your point still comes across clearly.

Panos
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by Panos » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 18:45

Eyeklops wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 16:24
Panos wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:48
Eyeklops wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:43

You should probably spoiler tag some of this.
This is 2018 news!!!!!!!
It's not about the age of the news but whether or not it should be something discovered by a new player in game vs accidentally in the non-spoiler section of the forums. The spoiler tag is easy to use and with the way your post is written if you only obfuscate the names & locations of the ships your point still comes across clearly.
I urge you then to find the other discussions in the first page here and make the same argument as some discussing about the free Odysseus. :mrgreen:

Nanook
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by Nanook » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 19:07

Panos wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:48
Eyeklops wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:43
Panos wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:12
b) Young Gun starts the game with +5 ships available from the get go
You should probably spoiler tag some of this.
This is 2018 news!!!!!!!
Except the OP is just starting out in 2021!! :P Try not to spoil all the surprises for him, OK? :wink:
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.

Panos
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by Panos » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 19:22

Nanook wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 19:07
Panos wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:48
Eyeklops wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:43

You should probably spoiler tag some of this.
This is 2018 news!!!!!!!
Except the OP is just starting out in 2021!! :P Try not to spoil all the surprises for him, OK? :wink:
Has made the same post in Reddit and overclockers UK forum. Spoilers are flying...... :lol:

DEL 707
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by DEL 707 » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 20:52

Panos wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 19:22
Nanook wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 19:07
Panos wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 15:48


This is 2018 news!!!!!!!
Except the OP is just starting out in 2021!! :P Try not to spoil all the surprises for him, OK? :wink:
Has made the same post in Reddit and overclockers UK forum. Spoilers are flying...... :lol:
No, this forums the only 1 providing spoilers :wink:
But I'm avoiding them, I don't want some "sloppy seconds" ship.

Panos
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by Panos » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 20:59

DEL 707 wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 20:52
Panos wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 19:22
Nanook wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 19:07


Except the OP is just starting out in 2021!! :P Try not to spoil all the surprises for him, OK? :wink:
Has made the same post in Reddit and overclockers UK forum. Spoilers are flying...... :lol:
No, this forums the only 1 providing spoilers :wink:
But I'm avoiding them, I don't want some "sloppy seconds" ship.
Hahahahhaha :lol:

DEL 707
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by DEL 707 » Sat, 9. Oct 21, 01:48

I've not done much later, but I'm friendly with the Argon, Paranid and Teladi. I'm also up to 15mil cr.

As I've mentioned before, I had a single energy cell station, but I want to make something bigger.

I know everyones game is different, but what is the best way to identify a gap in the market for a product?
Again the same question applies on where to put the station itself.

Panos
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by Panos » Sat, 9. Oct 21, 04:19

DEL 707 wrote:
Sat, 9. Oct 21, 01:48
I've not done much later, but I'm friendly with the Argon, Paranid and Teladi. I'm also up to 15mil cr.

As I've mentioned before, I had a single energy cell station, but I want to make something bigger.

I know everyones game is different, but what is the best way to identify a gap in the market for a product?
Again the same question applies on where to put the station itself.
Advanced Electronics is a product in great need and so are all the other products in it's production chain in addition you need a lot for your own research projects.

So decide where you want to set up shop.

Lets start easy.
Find a sector with good Methane, set up a Graphene factory.
Then Find a sector with Helium set up a Superfluid Coolant factory.

Assign 4 M Gas miner to each one, 2 M freighters and sell to AI. You need the money for the next step.

Find a nearby a good rich Silicon sector, set up a Silicon Wafers factory. Assign miners to it.
Preferably L miners, you can get them from ARG and HOP war guild mission. Some are easy to do and you make good money plus the ship.
Have the crew switching over to Service Crew except any 2-3 star Marines you might get. Move those to a Freighter when you have a chance.

Then on a sector near the above but next to highway, set up the 3 factories for Microchips, Quantum Tubes, Advanced Electronics.
Usually set them up no more than 5 jumps from the previous 2 factories preferably on the highway.
If you are close with the right settings you can restrict trade to your own faction and the freighters will sell only to your own stations.
Otherwise use Repeat Order and buy/sell the goods between your stations.


You might ask why L miners. Because mineral miners will start getting attacked by KHK and you need Heavy Fighters or Frigates/Corvettes to protect the sectors they are operating. So L miners are better, equipped with 2-3 plasma turrets they are impervious to any damage from KHK, can kill them and do not require escort ships. :mrgreen:


PS1 That Graphene factory is going to be BIG since needed for a lot of products like Hull Parts, Plasma conductors, Quantum Tubes, Advanced Composites.
PS2 Eighteen Billion is an amazing sector to set up shop. Has everything you need most of the time. Just scan it and set up a lot of resources probes.

Y-llian
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by Y-llian » Sat, 9. Oct 21, 12:16

If you’re not quite familiar with the production chains, I’d recommend a mining/trade hub. It’s really easy to setup, and done correctly will make a tidy profit. It will also give you invaluable experience with basic design, how to use trade rules and managing subordinates. Since you started as a Young Gun, you’ve likely already explored Grand Exchange which is an excellent sector for a mining hub. Not only is there high demand for minerals/gas in sector itself and the resources plentiful but usually, the neighbouring systems of BHS and Pious Mists are in need too. Dependent on how far you’ve progressed, SCA may also have built stations in Nopileos Fortune that will be looking for Hydrogen.

To setup a very basic mining hub all you need is: L/XL pier, M/S dock/1, M solid storage/1 M liquid storage. No need for habitats as your only “population” will be your manager. Design it however you want - just make sure ships can easily get to and from the pier/docks.

While the station is being built:

1. Buy 4 medium miners - 2 x gas, 2 x solid. These ships will become your collectors - they will mine and then transport the goods to your hub. I usually name them Collector S1/S2,G1,G2 respectively but you don’t have to.

2. Under global options create a trade rule called ‘My faction only’ or ‘Just Me’ whatever you feel appropriate. In the factions list make sure you only select your own faction and nothing else.

Once the station is built:

1. Find a manager and assign them to the hub. If you have some seminars handy train your manager to two stars in management. You don’t have to do this, the manager will train on the job, but the seminars just gets things moving a little quicker.

2. Go to the Logical Station overview and create buy orders ore, silicon, methane, hydrogen respectively. For each of the orders, manually set buy price to the lowest, leave storage on automatic and then add the ‘my faction only’ trade rule. You should now have an icon of a circle with a cross inside, on each of the buy orders. The reason we’re adding this rule should be obvious but for clarity, without it your manager will buy from other factions. We only want him to “buy” from the collector ships.

3. Assign the collectors ships you previously built to the hub as miners. They should now start moving off into the sector to mine.

While collectors are mining, let’s start to think about selling what we’re mining.

1. Buy 1 x M Gas miner and 1 x M Solid miner. These will be your distribution ships, I call them Seller G1, Seller S1 etc. As before there’s no need to rename ships, I just like the clarity.

2. Go back to the buy orders you created previously and create a sell order for each of the raw materials. Set the price to the lowest possible + 1Cr. Leave storage on automatic, don’t assign any trade rules.

3. Assign your seller ships to your hub as traders.

From now on, as the raw materials get delivered by your miners, the seller ships will go to the hub, collect from storage and sell to customers in the sector. As your manager gains experience your sellers will sell into neighbouring sectors as well.

Give me my profitssss:

To ensure you get regular payments from your mining hub go back to the logical overview and take a look at the budget. Ignore the the recommended budget. Set your budget to £2M credits. Once the station accumulates around £6M credits it will start to give you regular income. You can also set the budget to £1M if you’re strapped for cash after all the investment.

Scaling up:

Once you have all this in place, you can easily scale up by adding more collector and seller ships. The more you have, the quicker the goods go in and out. You can also use L miners to further increase your collection yield.

To really get things moving in terms of selling, consider using a combination of M and S miners as seller ships.

As you add more ships, consider upgrading the docks from 1M6S to the 3M6S. Or you could add the 3M dock right from the off if you can afford it.

Increase storage as needed. But personally, I’ve never needed to increase beyond medium solid/gas storage. Correctly setup and balanced, the raw materials will be delivered and sold pretty quickly as the demand is so high in GE and the surrounding sectors.

Add trade/sell orders for helium and Ice dependent on local demand, if appropriate.

What have you learned doing this:

1. How to design a basic trade station.
2. How to manage prices.
3. How to create trade rules and apply then.
4. How to assign ships as traders and miners.
5. How to get regular payments from trade stations.
6. How to scale up.

Things to bear in mind that’s unique to mining hubs.

1. For any other form of production, you cannot ignore the estimated budget as we did here. Mining hubs are unique in that they have no production and right now, the estimate budget calculation doesn’t quite work correctly for mining hubs. If you ignore the estimated value for say a engine parts factory and provide a budget under what’s recommended, it will not work properly.

2. Over time as your mining operation increase the Kha’ak will start to bother your collector ships. Some faction ships are better at dealing with this than others. I’ll let you discover that for yourself. But setting up in GE has the additional advantage that it’s well policed by both the Teladi Company and Ministry of Finance. I have yet to lose a mining ship in my current play through in GE.

3. I have seen recommendations for resource probes. Personally I don’t use them but you may want to investigate how they affect station miners and decide if you’d like to use them.

Good luck! :)

All best
Y.

DEL 707
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by DEL 707 » Sat, 9. Oct 21, 19:33

Again, thanks for all the help.

I've setup a station in The Void since it has methane and helium.

https://i.imgur.com/u2TAG0p.jpg

I am starting to regret my decision building it in The Void though, the Xenon have started to become active and have been harrasing trading ships and even the mammoth as it was building the stations.
How do I go about placing defences?

I've assigned 2 gas miners to the station so far. Will they mine both methane and gas?
Last edited by Terre on Sat, 9. Oct 21, 19:39, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Images posted directly to the forums should not be greater than 640x480 or 100kb, oversize image now linked

SirConnery
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by SirConnery » Sun, 10. Oct 21, 02:38

DEL 707 wrote:
Sat, 9. Oct 21, 19:33
How do I go about placing defences?
Firstly you'll want to protect the station so place some defense modules, if they start bringing out Destroyers to the Void, which does happen. Then you'll also want another purely defence station near your mining station.

Miners are much harder to protect. Generally I've used the "Repeat orders" in dangerous sectors. 1. Mine 2. Sell . This way you can place your mining area in some remote corner where they're usually not targeted.
DEL 707 wrote:
Sat, 9. Oct 21, 19:33
I've assigned 2 gas miners to the station so far. Will they mine both methane and gas?
They will, but the station manager constantly switches all the miners to mine one of them instead of individually balancing the mining. You'll want to have at least one miner on "Sector Automine" or "Repeat Orders" to mine the same gas so you never run out of stock.

I don't personally use any station miners for this reason. It's easier to balance the mining you need for a station by using sector automine on one miner then having new miners mimic that one. If it's a small station, station mining works fine but on higher production you constantly run out of one resource while the manager switches the miners to mine the other one.

jlehtone
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by jlehtone » Sun, 10. Oct 21, 10:40

The Void ... has natural hazards, doesn't it? Dangerous zones. With 4.1 those affect ships even when player is not present. Hence not a place where AI can freely roam. On the positive side, the AI should be able to navigate around the hazards.

Xenon K has six L turrets. One station defence module has how many L turrets? It is relatively easy* to pack many modules in small space; the foes will be badly outgunned (except perhaps the TER Asgards). (Whether ship/station turrets function as expected in low and high attention is an another matter.)



* "Just some money and time" says player, who runs no miners, no traders, and no stations.
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Y-llian
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Re: Young gun looking for some help, new ship and trading.

Post by Y-llian » Sun, 10. Oct 21, 11:39

Jlehtone is wise to highlight the hazards in The Void. It’s a really pretty sector but arguably, not the location for a beginner station. If you’re keen to be near ANT and PIO (if that’s your plan) then maybe think about Antigone Memorial instead. The shipyards there are in need of resources. :)

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